Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[rowanj]

Thank you.. That's very helpful. For a class of 10, modelling them is a bit of a minefield, given that I only started because I had a spare chassis and a dodgy footplate.

 

In reality, given that they were all gone by mid 1954 and seem to have ended their lives on locals around Leicester and Nottingham, they don't really fit into my late 50's early 60's timescale so I'm really only doing all this for the pleasure of building... something I seem to do more than running the layout these days.. So I'll decide quite late in the day about lining them, though it seems as though the last survivors finished their days in unlined black.

Thanks again, Papyrus.

John

Edited January 23, 2017 by rowanj

[rowanj]

When I started this, I assumed it was a simple case of adapting the footplate and cab and fitting larger wheels.  I knew almost nothing about J2's, and certainly didnt realise that, at least in BR days, there weren't 2 locos alike, after years of mods.

 

After some research and help from others, I've settled on 65019 which lasted to mid 1953. It has the handrail arrangement I wanted, was fully lined in 1950 then unlined black by 1952 so that gives a option. Annoyingly, I discovered that the cylinder piston rods were removed by 1950, but the platform remained - it was removed from almost all J2's and I assume '19 lost its' platform at some stage. However it was already fitted on my model and is a distinctive feature on the class.

 

Still a fair bit of tidying up to do but getting there. The Highlevel Compact+ and 1024 motor was easier to fit than the Markits/Mitsumi combo (not that that was difficult), And the quality of the resin castings is exceptional.

Edited January 27, 2017 by rowanj

[rowanj]

I decided to have a go at lining the loco as it was in 1951. What a chew!. I think Doncaster must have lined every corner they found. I've started to tone everything down using Tamaya Weathering tabs, but more needs to be done. If I'm not happy at the end of it, all black it shall become.

 

Still need to fit sandpipes,balance weights and coal, and smokebox numberplate, but the loco is now essentially completed.

 

[2750Papyrus]

I'm impressed both with the model and the speed of assembly and decoration.

[rowanj]

Santa brought a vintage Craftsman C12, via Ebay, so I'll make a start on that, Internet research shows the kits are rather passe compared to modern offerings, and certainly, as the photo shows, there are not too many parts ! However they seem to still have a decent reputation, and many seem to bemoan the fact that they are no longer in production. For anyone starting out, this looks a fairly simple option, not least as the instructions appear complete and well illustrated.

 

The etched metal seems very thin, certainly compared to PDK and ArthurK kits, so I'll need to turn the iron down a notch. The age of the kits is shown by the chassis design, which is obviously intended to have an X04 motor fitted. I'll be using a cam and gearbox, probably from Highlevel. I cant speak to highly about their gearboxes, especially for any novice builder. They are the easiest to get a good mesh and quiet running of any I have ever tried, and, believe me, I have messed up more than one,

 

The J2 is  now complete, and I'll post a couple of photos in situ. It's been suggested I now try a J5. I don't think so, Andrew.....

Edited February 2, 2017 by rowanj

[Jol Wilkinson]

London Road Models have a J5 at test etch stage, from the same designer as their other GNR/LNER 0-6-0s.

[PenrithBeacon]

How does a person acquire a Graham King kit? I cannot find a web presence.

 

Regards

[jwealleans]

Oh, he's here - try the 'Wright Writes' or Grantham threads.

[rowanj]

How does a person acquire a Graham King kit? I cannot find a web presence.

 

Regards

 

I'm not too sure how Graeme feels about people just passing on his contact details as his excellent resin parts are produced as a hobby/spinoff from work produced for his own use. As Jonathan says, he can be found on Wright Writes and other sites as GRKing and a PM to him should prove fruitful.  His work is on the LNER Forum as Atlantic 3279.

 

The J2 on the layout, and then posed alongside the original J6 completes the sequence.

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by rowanj

[rowanj]

Here is the current state of play on the Craftsman C12. The chassis is virtually complete as far as the major comonents are concerned. All the parts fitted pretty well, with only a small amount of dressing with a file required. It shows the kit's age, being designed for an X04 type.I'm using a Comet gearbox with a Mashima 1424, and so needed to open the broad slot where the final gear fits onto the axle to allow the gearbox to slip into place. Other than this, assembly is straightforward. I hesitated before fitting the fixing plate for the X04, but there is sufficient room to fit the modern motor, so went ahead to give added strength to the chassis.

 

The Comet gearbox was in my box of failures, with one side completely snapped off. I managed to get it soldered back in place and it runs beautifully. What a fluke !

 

The chassis etch has a series of washers which the (comprehensive) instructions suggest are soldered to the appropriate spacers and then tapped. I'm going to use nuts, and a conventional piece of circuit board superglued under the chassis.

 

The loco superstructure was trickier than I expected. The metal is pretty thin, and therefore I found it almost impossible to fit the small parts without the iron causing others to come loose. The loco steps were a real pain, and I finished up replacing the kit parts with pieces from a scrap etch of beefier composition. The instructions suggest you make up the coal plate rear - steps, lamp irons,etc, and then fit it to the footplate. I did it in reverse, My prototype loco, 67367, has, I hope, a handrail on the bunker rear, and the small footsteps removed, so a minor mod was required  for that.

 

Photos show a variety of very prominent pipework not given in the kit, these include a pipe run along the full length of both sides under the footplate - vacuum brakes? and another series under the cab. It will be necessary to have a go at replicating these.

 

 

 

[rowanj]

Though I took several photos of the build, largely to check for reasonable accuracy, in all honesty there is nothing sufficiently different about this kit from all the other etch loco builds on this site to warrant publication, The photo does, hopefully, show that the Craftsman kit does build into a reasonable model, but, given the difficulty in getting one these days, I would recommend anyone needing a C12 seek out a more modern kit. SEF and LRM would appear to be better bets.

 

But I'm content enough with my model, and, as I've said elsewhere, the greater pleasure is in the building.

Edited February 25, 2017 by rowanj

[rowanj]

And now for something completely different.

 

I purchased this ancient Nu Cast O2/3 on Ebay for £75 with a view to trying to use low-melt solder on a whitemetal kit for the first time. I suppose I should have started with a wagon, but I like building locos ....and I already have a suitable motor/gearbox. Wheels will be W&T, so the final loco will come in at c .£150. I'm really only risking melting the £75 kit.

 

I remember building Nu Cast back in the day with great fondness. Assembled using epoxy, I still have a few trundling round the layout. In fact. I've just added details to an O2/2 and G5 and they satisfy me as layout locos. I also remember being able to go into model shops and buying many of their parts as spares. Those were the days.

 

I'm using an Antex TCS50W variable iron, with the temperature set at 240*.with Carrs Green Label Flux. This temperature may be a bit high but seems to be the minimum to get the flux to fizz. I have some Red Label, which is designed for lower temperature on order, and will see how that goes. Solder is, of course, low melt at a nominal 70*

 

The kit is pretty basic compared to modern ones. There is plenty of flash to clean and almost all the joints needed some filing, but the overall fit, so far, has been not too bad. This is just as well, as the metal gets hot !!! and there are no tab and slot to aid assembly as with etched kits. In addition, because of the low cost, the seller indicated that some parts may be missing. So far, these include some backhead details ,the steampipe and the tender front coalplate. These can be either fabricated or replaced from the spares box.

 

However, there is a major issue with the chassis, The instructions refer to a whitemetal casting- typical for the time. Although most folk hate them now, I actually find them ok. They always need cleaning - usually a lot - but once bearings are fitted and they are amended to allow a modern gearbox to replace an X04 type, mine  usually run well enough., though, to be fair, they don't run many miles.

 

Late in the day, Nu Cast began replacing them with stamped brass, a la Comet, etc. This kit has one, but actually, I mean only ONE - not a pair. It's a really nice piece, but not much use by itself. To be fair, this was identified by the seller, and as luck would have it, I have a friend who I horse trade with who will produce the other side. Thank you 46256.  If there is a problem, I suspect the Alan Gibson O2/1 frames may be persuaded to fit.

 

So here is progress to date. The soldering has been a doddle, and so much easier than waiting for glue to set, Smaller details will, however be glued - I'm not that brave. Some gaps will need filling, but that's true of glue too, I'm convinced my success is as a result of building etched kits, which has developed some expertise and much confidence. i'll post more photos as the work progresses.

Edited March 9, 2017 by rowanj

[Jol Wilkinson]

I use London Road Models 6% Phosphoric Acid Flux, with LRM 70 deg or Carrs 100 deg solder for w/m. Both work well with my Antex TCU set at 175 degrees.

 

Water, the main constituent of most fluxes, boils at 100 deg so it shouldn't be necessary to go much higher than that, although most irons usually need to be 75 - 100 deg above the nominal solder melt temperature for succesful results.

[rowanj]

Here is the loco body will all parts soldered and the first clean -up of the whitemetal applied. Most of the rest is detailing, so I suppose a mix of soldering, cyno and epoxy will be used.

 

As my J21 was lurking, having been down from the loft for a "general repair", I thought I may as well photograph it too, It's a dave Alexander kit, glued together some years ago. the fit was light years better than the current O2/3 project

[rowanj]

The kit has a few pieces missing, including the front tender coal rail. The rear one is present, but has a piece removed from the centre. The tender represents a GS with flared tops I cannot tell from photos whether the rear piece fits over, or is just ahead, of the tender dome..both were options,as I understand it.,,In addition, I believe the O2/3 tender may have had a vacuum tank, again missing from the kit. I'll continue my research, but any help gratefully received.

[micklner]

LNER tenders are a nightmare as I have never found a decent book showing all the variations.

 

You will have to find a photo of the particular Loco you are building to confirm the Tender, layout. If the rear dividing plate has a piece missing is this intended to allow it to sit on the centre of the Dome . Make a new one from plastikard if needed, use that one as a template.

[rowanj]

LNER tenders are a nightmare as I have never found a decent book showing all the variations.

 

You will have to find a photo of the particular Loco you are building to confirm the Tender, layout. If the rear dividing plate has a piece missing is this intended to allow it to sit on the centre of the Dome . Make a new one from plastikard if needed, use that one as a template.

 

Thanks, Mick - I had a feeling that might be the case, Top down photos of O2/3 tenders are at a premium. If anyone can point me at one ,I'd be grateful, as I haven't yet settled on a particular loco.

 

John

[Pebbles]

It would appear that the positioning of the plate over the water dome was as built. Repositioning of the plate forward of the dome at the commencement of the self trimming slope was a modification carried out during the BR period. However, the revised plate appears to rise higher and be of a radius similar to that of the cab roof. Page 47, Vol Nine of Yeadon's may be of assistance.

[rowanj]

It would appear that the positioning of the plate over the water dome was as built. Repositioning of the plate forward of the dome at the commencement of the self trimming slope was a modification carried out during the BR period. However, the revised plate appears to rise higher and be of a radius similar to that of the cab roof. Page 47, Vol Nine of Yeadon's may be of assistance.

 

That's very helpful...many thanks. I don't have Yeadon though I'm sure that the books are invaluable if one is making a serious attempt at the loco. I remember when you could either get one from the library or, at least, peruse most of the series in the reference section. Ah well,,,

 

My loco will be in BR days. Can anyone confirm whether the tender should have the vacuum cylinder? I've seen them on some but not on others. There wasn't one in the kit, and the instructions don't refer to one.

[Pebbles]

HI again!

 

Referring to Yeadon's; top photo of No 63984 shows a flat sided 4200 gal tender the higher back plate was fitted in March 1956. This tender has a vacuum cylinder fitted on the right hand side looking forward. The lower photo on No 63987 has the stepped top tender and as the photo has been taken from the front the presence of a vacuum cylinder cannot be confirmed. Now additional problems; types of boiler, and height of running plate. The running plate of the NuCast kit only really caters for locos built before 1932 loco Nos 63922 to 63946 these would have been built with GNR tenders and GNR type or modified type cabs. I think all the original GNR locos received the window type cab in the early forties to bring them into a standard loading gauge, but I have no idea if any eventually received the group standard tender. Of the 67 in the class some 30 - including 63987 which was built in 1943 - at some point received B1 type Dia 100A boilers these being shorter required a connecting piece between the boiler and the smokebox. The class is a complete minefield and If you haven't had a head ache so far you will eventually have one!

[D.Platt]

Have you tried Google I was amazed when I was looking for photos for B16s what came up .

[rowanj]

Remember these as the Nu Cast mathod of fixing the tender sub-chassis,?  I'm going to use pin-point axles in the frames and dispense with the sub chassis. There is already plenty weight in the tender for the loco to lug around, but I'll keep it in reserve just in case. Once the lips on the frames are filed flat, the top hat bearings are an easy force fit into holes.

 

I'm going to just have to live with the footplate, Pebbles.  I can't see where or how to make any amendments. Thanks for the helpful post. At some point, I may tackle an O2/4.

 

Google is my default search engine, D Platt and I turned up a photo of an O4/3 converted to O4/4 in 1958, attached (still?) to it's GS flared tender with vacuum cylinder. I'll l quit when I'm ahead.

 

Comments/criticisms/tips are always welcome.,

 

John

Edited March 12, 2017 by rowanj

[BrushVeteran]

Howes Models have plenty of O2 Tango spare parts sprues available for any of the tender parts you may have missing. If you go on to the Howes website you can view the parts under the respective headings under Heljan UK spare parts.

[uax6]

If you are missing parts of these Nu-cast kits, give Dave at SE Finecast a bell, hes very good at getting the moulds out and casting what hes got for you. I've had plenty of spares of old Sutherland kits (that became nu-cast) from him, including some complete (minus chassis... talk to Brian at Branchlines about them) kits too.

 

I can't talk more highly of Dave and his helpfulness.

 

Andy G

[ArthurK]

A photo of 63984. Taken York early 60s. Straight sided tender.

 

 

ArthurK

Edited March 12, 2017 by ArthurK