Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[rowanj]

Many thanks for the posts. The Howes suggestion is useful - I had no idea that the spares situation was as good. They will be useful in a couple of ways. It's not so much that details are missing (though a few are) but rather that they were never supplied in the first place, given the vintage of the kits. I always intended to add as much detail as possible from the spares box, including what TW calls the "wiggly bits"

 

I agree that Dave Ellis at SEF is helpful with spares - he supplied a K3 cab etch recently. In this case , however, most parts were never cast, though hopefully any re-introduced O2 will be updated.

 

Arthur's photo (lovely to hear from you again ) is a nice addition to the collection when it come to detailing the loco, though a lot of that now awaits the new chassis sides

 

In the meantime, progress on the tender, which is free -running nicely through my trackwork. The coal and rear spacer are from Bachmann tender, and will probably now be replaced if the Howes spares contain the appropriate part.

 

 

 

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[jwealleans]

How did you get on with putting the axles ends into the frames? I've found that I get much better running with a brass subframe and it's easier to fit tender pickups, if you're so inclined.

[Horsetan]

...The Howes suggestion is useful - I had no idea that the spares situation was as good. ...​

 

Heljan spares seem to be supplied every time there is a batch of models produced. There are situations (see Western, 47, Clayton, etc.) where models are not due for production of another batch, and hence spares run out.

 

Heljan-produced models like the Class 14 and the LMS Beyer-Garratt have no spares available because they were produced exclusively for Hattons, etc.

[rowanj]

How did you get on with putting the axles ends into the frames? I've found that I get much better running with a brass subframe and it's easier to fit tender pickups, if you're so inclined.

 

Possibly more by luck than judgement, this was easy and straightforward. Tested on mirror glass and on the track, all seems well. Being 8-coupled, I don't think I'll need to bother with tender pick-ups, though if I decide to fit brakes. that will be more of a problem - wires into holes part-drilled in the frames, I imagine. I really didn't want to add any more weight to the tender if I could help it.

 

After a first squirt of Halfords primer, it has scrubbed up pretty well, I think.

 

Incidentally, Pebbles, I have now invested in the relevant Yeadon's. I suppose  they are almost de rigeur for serious loco building.

 

John

[Horsetan]

If you are missing parts of these Nu-cast kits, give Dave at SE Finecast a bell, hes very good at getting the moulds out and casting what hes got for you. I've had plenty of spares of old Sutherland kits (that became nu-cast) from him, including some complete (minus chassis... talk to Brian at Branchlines about them) kits too.

 

I can't talk more highly of Dave and his helpfulness.

 

Dave / SEF is a bit like Volkswagen-Audi Group spares used to be - you could order any spare, no question, and it would be ready in about two days.

 

If Dave is able to do runs of ex-NuCast kit spares, that's useful to know, as I think I'll be in need of a few bits for a Hawksworth "Modified Hall", particularly chimney and fire-iron tunnel.

[rowanj]

My friend 46256 has sent me photos of the chassis, now with 2 sides ! He has not only cut the new side, but assembled it as well,There are some amazing folk in this hobby.

 

I would appreciate some advice on the loco handrails on the LH side, where they are immediately above the steampipe. Is there a way to fit these using handrail knobs? I could, I suppose, use split pins but is there a better method?

[manna]

G'day Gents

 

Hi rowanj, I think the handrails are the same as on the O1 (O3), I fitted the steampipe with split pins, then carefully soldered the handrail onto the top of the split pin, the last lot I did for the original O1/O3, lasted 30 years.

 

manna

[rowanj]

The chassis arrived, so I fitted the wheels, from W&T, to chck the fit of the body, and identify any other issues. There are some tight spots with the coupling rods fitted, but not too serious, and the chassis sits nice and square on the track. The loco body is a bit "nose up" but nothing the file wont take care of.

 

The steampipe is from the Heljan sprue, fitted with split pins ahead of the handrails being soldered as per Manna's suggestion.

 

The castings seem to be a bit "O2 Universal" so for the O2/3,I needed to make the cutaways at each bottom corner of the buffer beam, and file away and fill the RH smokebox where a representation of where the steampipe would enter on RH drive locos.

 

Now that Yeadon' has arrived, no doubt other things will arise.

 

John

Edited March 16, 2017 by rowanj

[rowanj]

Motor fitted to chassis, and coupling rods slightly opened to give smooth running. Wheels are W&T. They are produced in all the usual sizes, but are not loco-specific  like Markits. There were reports that they did not always run true on the Romford axles, but I have used them a fair bit and found them OK. They are fully insulated, so you need to be quick soldering crankpin washers as the black inserts are plastic. I suppose if one was looking for better prototype fidelity, Markits are the answer, but in my case, I just want reasonable accuracy and decent running. This set plus 4 axles was £32, I think.

 

The motor is a cheap Jap (Mitsumi ?) bought from Ebay at 5 For £5. I've used 4 of them, and find them great. My locos don't do huge mileage, and 20 wagons is the usual limit, but there are no signs yet of damage. They all run smoothly and fit easily to a Highlevel  Roadrunner Compact, or, as in this case, Compact +. and I used them on Markits single stage with no difficulty, Purists may howl, but, if there is a meshing problem from the worm, they can be tack soldered to the gearbox to give added support to the screw fixings.

 

Next step is pickups and valve gear. The kit provides whitemetal crossheads, which I imagine would work OK, but I have a pair of brass lost wax, I think from Comet, so I'll use those. I have had real problems in the past with crossheads falling out of LNER single slidebar cylinders, and prefer if possible to use the DJH style which is a fold over and "locks in" the crosshead. As the photo shows, the Nu Cast is a single etch, but I have another set and early trials show that I can construct a sandwich which should work. If anyone knows what I'm doing wrong and why my crossheads always want to fall out, pls let me know. It isn't that the end is too long, and they don't ever seem too sloppy, or to be catching. Just my lousy technique , I suppose.

Edited March 22, 2017 by rowanj

[Horsetan]

The second photo does tend to show how the hobby has moved on a bit from the simple single-layer slidebars. Nowadays we either have near full-depth castings, or laminations to build them up to full depth.

[Jol Wilkinson]

The W&T wheels look like the original Romford wheels, possibly before the RP25 profile tyre was introduced.

 

Markits "absorbed" the Romford range and Mark Arscott seems to believe that prototype specific, rather than generic, wheel sets are what the market needs. That's rather what all the other 4mm wheel suppliers have done, although you can usually find something that will match the diameter you need, if not number os spokes, crank pin placement, etc.

 

Your findings on the Mitsumi motors are useful, since the cessation of Mashima's production.  Mashima had become the default motor in 4mm, providing good specifications, performance and reliability.

[rowanj]

The W&T wheels look like the original Romford wheels, possibly before the RP25 profile tyre was introduced.

 

 

 

They are to RP25 profile, and IMHO look better than early Romfords once the rims and plastic centres are painted. Scalelink are great to deal with both Via Web or by phone. The last batch arrived with a bit of paper with suggestions on fitting by Tony Wright. As I say, they are generic, and not to everyone's taste, but I have had no de-railing or quartering issues with them, unlike Gibsons, which I would use if I could, but which seem intolerant of any of my trackwork deficiencies. I think W&T wheels may suffer from frequent removal and refitting to the axles and certainly care is needed soldering on crankpin washers.

 

John

[rowanj]

After the usual fight to get clearances , the valve gear is now fitted. I'll do a bit more tweaking, but the chassis runs nicely.The body is just perched to get a photo and I need to investigate that gap above the RH cylinder. The LH handrail was fitted above the steampipe as suggested by Manna  - split pins hold the steampipe, and the handrail soldered to them, with a single handrail knob for the front. The steampipe is Heljan plastic, so you need to get in quickly !

 

The suggestion to look for Heljan spares has proven worthwhile., to the extent that I have had the daft idea of using them to produce a Thompson O2/4. I have a Replica B1 boiler, left over from a K5 conversion, but I'm not sure if it will work. The photos show what you can get as spares, and even if I don't go ahead with the O2/4, they will be very handy for other things. The footplate is from a GBL V2, and the only major work seems to be below the cab, which needs extending, and ahead of the buffer beam. A cab is available, but currently out of stock at Howes.

[rowanj]

This is one side of the painted loco. Missing from the kit were the 2 sandbox castings, so they were replaced with resin ones from Graeme King, which I had in my sparesbox. Late in life, this loco got AWS, and I had the parts to fit a battery box (it's below the cab on the other side) and the plate on the buffer beam to protect the gubbins from the coupling. The 2 reservoirs on the undersides of the footplate, just ahead of the cab, were made from scrap plastic sprue.

 

I had a minor panic when running in when the gearbox came out of gear, but luckily, it was just a part coming away from the gearbox side, easily fixed. You really do need to be ham-fisted to mess up a Highlevel Gearbox. - they are excellent.

 

I hope to get the rest of the transfers on and fit the tender coupling in the next few days. I quite like the "ex-works" finish, but I suppose it should really be weathered .Coal will be added to the tender, and a crew.

 

 

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

This is looking good, as it's your loco you don't have to weather it if you don't want to! IIRC there are a number of Keith Pirt pictures of these looking fairly clean, but maybe he just didn't bother with the others.

 

In terms of parts, I noticed at the Nottingham show that Replica were still selling B1 bodies with Group Standard tenders for £15, which seems quite good value.

 

John.

[rowanj]

This is looking good, as it's your loco you don't have to weather it if you don't want to! IIRC there are a number of Keith Pirt pictures of these looking fairly clean, but maybe he just didn't bother with the others.

 

In terms of parts, I noticed at the Nottingham show that Replica were still selling B1 bodies with Group Standard tenders for £15, which seems quite good value.

 

John.

 

Thanks John. The problem with using the B1 boiler is that it is not a "circle/oval"  - the moulding ends where it meets the footplate, so needs so much major reconstruction ahead of the motor/gearbox that its probably easier to use a plastic or metal tube of the correct o.d.. ( though I haven't checked to see what that would be. ). I agree, though, that the Replica deal is really good value.

 

John

Edited March 28, 2017 by rowanj

[rowanj]

Photos of the almost completed O2/3. The idea is that is is workstained but not too shabby - fairly recently out of shops. I used the dry brushing technique recommended on the Right Lines 4 DVD .

 

This will be the last for some time as I'm off on a 3-month jolly and my wife doesn't like soldering in the caravan. On return, a SEF N5 awaits.

Edited March 30, 2017 by rowanj

[rowanj]

Spending 3 months in a caravan in France has lots of advantages, among which is the lack of the chance to do any modelling, but plenty of time to think and plan. I have felt for some time that, now I am nearly 68, my loft layout was far too ambitious for a one-man band, and that the quality of running was not what I wanted. Therefore dismantling has begun, and an out and back with a fairly modest scenic section will be begun. Whether it will ever be finished is another matter.

I have decided to base the model on my childhood spotting location. We all called this "The Powder Monkey" and is on the ECML north of Newcastle, and is more correctly known as Little Benton. Is has the advantage of being a fast double track main-line, with a series of wagon sidings alongside, laid during WW2. This will allow storage of at least some of the wagon rakes. I'll be reasonably pragmatic about loco stock, as I have a number which were never seen in service in my youth north of Newcastle,(or even in NE England). 

I have a decent stock of the foam underlay used under laminate flooring, and am considering this for the trackwork.  Does anyone have any experience of using this?

One reason for the change is a weird experience I have with the O2/3 chassis. It runs perfectly on straight track, and on RH curves, both forward and backword. But it stalls on LH curves in both directions. It doesn't seem to be a pick-up issue.

The next loco project is a SEF N5.- another loco never seen north of Newcastle....

Edited July 28, 2017 by rowanj

[John Tomlinson]

The thought I had on the O2/3 stalling is that the for some reason the sideways play in the wheelsets is not even for some reason. Alternatively does part of the motion catch as the wheels move to accommodate the LH curve, the connecting rod against the front crankpin is a common culprit.

 

John.

[rowanj]

The thought I had on the O2/3 stalling is that the for some reason the sideways play in the wheelsets is not even for some reason. Alternatively does part of the motion catch as the wheels move to accommodate the LH curve, the connecting rod against the front crankpin is a common culprit.

 

John.

 

John

 

I now have the O2 running round curves in all directions. As you suggested, and as I suspected, it was a combination of insufficient sideplay and a slight lifting of the leading bogie..The former was a first for me - the latter all too common !!.

 

Dave Alexander was at RailexNE yesterday - the only trader selling kits, as far as I could tell. I gave in to temptation and bought a Q7. I've built his kits in the past and they have a well- deserved reputation for the quality and accuracy of his whitemetal castings. To my pleasant surprise ,the Q7 is the more modern combination of whitemetal and etched brass. The photo will explain.

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by rowanj

[John Tomlinson]

I'm glad the 02/3 is now running properly.

 

That Q7 looks a beautiful kit, the whitemetal running plate should give it lots of weight. Some years ago I built Dave Alexander's Clayton diesel - this was long before the Heljan RTR. The kit  went together very well indeed, even the two motor bogies ran sweetly after a bit of fiddling!

 

John.

Edited July 30, 2017 by John Tomlinson

[mikemeg]

Rowanj,

 

I hope you don't mind me offering this but I was wondering which black paint(s) you use on your locos?

 

Over the years I've tried a few and have now fixed on two. For a well weathered and worn look the Railmatch Weathered Black, obtainable from Howes of Oxford (I think it is produced for them but see their website). This is almost a graphite grey colour and does convey the look of a loco exposed to prolonged weather. It is also completely matt so does take any further weathering colours extremely well.

 

For the ex-works look then Halfords Satin Black (obtainable in aerosol cans) gives a satin, shiny finish without the excess reflecting of gloss paint.

 

Your latest models really do look the part, as they all do.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited July 31, 2017 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

Rowanj,

 

I hope you don't mind me offering this but I was wondering which black paint(s) you use on your locos?

 

Over the years I've tried a few and have now fixed on two. For a well weathered and worn look the Railmatch Weathered Black, obtainable from Howes of Oxford (I think it is produced for them but see their website). This is almost a graphite grey colour and does convey the look of a loco exposed to prolonged weather. It is also completely matt so does take any further weathering colours extremely well.

 

For the ex-works look then Halfords Satin Black (obtainable in aerosol cans) gives a satin, shiny finish without the excess reflecting of gloss paint.

 

Your latest models really do look the part, as they all do.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Thanks so much for your advice. I use Halfords Satin Black, but am tempted by the suggestion of the Railmatch Weathered Black. The N5 and Q7 should be suitable recipients for a weathered finish.

 

 

John

[rowanj]

I have made a start on the Dave Alexander Q7, using for the first time the Poppywood Loco Builder box. I haven't quite worked out yet how to keep the frames fixed and secure while the first spacers are fitted, but I'm convinced that the jig will be a valuable piece of kit. It would seem almost impossible to build the chassis out of alignment with it, but we shall see when I fit the wheels.

 

The chassis etch, and the spacers, were excellent - a really good fit,

[rowanj]

I have found it necessary to check at an early stage that the chosen motor/gearbox will pass any etched spacers. This loco will have a Highlevel Compact driving the 3rd axle. As I hoped, there is plenty room in the chassis, and it looks as though everything will be concealed by the footplate and boiler.

 

I suppose on modern chassis, this sort of check may be superfluous, but the sheer variety of motor/gearbox possible combinations makes it worthwhile for me.

 

Incidentally, I have come across Tom Vance's excellent Loco Builder series on You Tube, where he assembles a High Level Gearbox. The whole series is worth a look.

 

John