Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[MarkC]

Hi John. If nobody else comes through with the K3 'destructions', I may be able to help, but it wouldn't be until tomorrow that I can check,  I think. I presume you mean the etched one?

 

Edit - I have found the instructions, but have no access to scanner until tonight/tomorrow morning.

 

Hornet's Beauty looks good, by the way. Nice one.

 

Cheers,

Mark

Edited September 1, 2019 by MarkC

[rowanj]

4 hours ago, MarkC said:

Hi John. If nobody else comes through with the K3 'destructions', I may be able to help, but it wouldn't be until tomorrow that I can check,  I think. I presume you mean the etched one?

 

Edit - I have found the instructions, but have no access to scanner until tonight/tomorrow morning.

 

Hornet's Beauty looks good, by the way. Nice one.

 

Cheers,

Mark

Hi Mark. I managed to get a set from Thane of Fife, but thanks for the offer.

 

Here is Hornets Beauty heading back to Edinburgh on an all-stations stopper.

[MarkC]

Glad you got sorted out.

 

Mark

[rowanj]

Just to finish this thread, as I was kindly sent the instructions for the SEF K3 chassis, this is what I did with it, I still need to paint the buffer beam, fit ATP, dummy coupling, coal and cab doors. An original of the donor is shown, Thanks to Thane for the instructions, and the others who also offered.

John

[rowanj]

This could be North Road Scrapyard, or a site I visited at Choppington ( appropriate name) where I saw a J27 being cut up in 1967. In fact, it is an LRM N8/9 kit being slowly assembled to represent one of the last N8's withdrawn from Tyne Dock in late 1956, and which was on test on the layout. The chassis is complete, and the main superstructure well on the way, but there is still a lot of detail to fit. This loco also got full mixed traffic lining at its' last general in 1953. I did consider just doing one in unlined black, but thought this would make a change. Loco will be 69390

Edited January 24, 2020 by rowanj

[rowanj]

The completed N8 takes a short ECS rake to Central, The London Road Models kit built up nicely,  I needed to fit a small Mashima motor to a Roadrunner Highlevel  gearbox, so a bit of thought was needed to get it inside the tanks, The kit builds up to either an N8 or N9, and is designed to have either high or low(er) side tanks. This particular loco only had steam brakes, some of them were genuine mixed traffic with a vacuum brake in BR days. So, along with the Westinghouse versions, there are lots of options.

I will, in due course, build another kit as an N8 with longer footplate and lower tanks, as a couple of these lasted until the mid 1950's. I recommend the kits as suitable for average modellers which still lend themselves to added detailing if desired.

[rowanj]

After the nice little LRM N8/9, the Little Engines T1 is "from the sublime to the ridiculous", both in terms of the kits themselves, and also the looks of the prototypes. The locos were, of course, designed for completely different roles.

 

I was in "modelling hiatus" when Little Engines kits were around, and so this is my first experience. They seem to turn up occasionally on eBay and the like, but otherwise are like hens teeth, The T1 has a reasonable etched chassis but otherwise is substantial whitemetal, with a few etched parts. 

 

It is very light on detail, as illustrated by the cab photo. Other than the roof, this is literally all you get. I'll have a go at filling in some detail, but it will be "generic" based on what I have built from more modern kits - sandboxes, backhead, reverse lever and brake, etc, Unless, of course, anyone has a photo of a T1 cab....

 

NER outside cylinder models don't like going round corners, and a 4-8-0 is the worst of all worlds. I 've cheated by fitting 16mm drivers to the inner 2 pairs and extended the cylinders by 2mm to give the bogie a bit more "swing". Even then, the front cast cylinder covers foul the leading bogie wheels, so I'll replace them with thin plasticard. I've  never built crossheads like these, so feared the worst, but actually the one side I completed worked fine. How they think there is room for brakes beats me, so I'll cheat with Slaters plastic ones.

[46256]

Hello John , not being very knowledgable about North Eastern locos, what traffic were these 480 locos designed for?

[MarkC]

In fairness to Little Engines, John, as you know, DJH's H1/A8 kit(s) are/were similarly lacking in real cab details, as well as other small items, such as the steam reverser on the H1. That's where we can make each model we build unique, of course, by adding them ourselves

 

The T1 is certainly another bluff, powerful looking NER 'big tank'

 

Mark

[rowanj]

Hi Mark and Brian - good to hear from you both.

 

 The T1 was built for heavy shunting, and seem to have spent their lives in marshalling yards, or the early equivalent. The Tyne Dock locos also were used as bankers on the iron ore trains. Other than the pleasure of building one, I wouldn't have bothered if a kit hadn't turned up on Ebay at a reasonable price, seeing it run through Little Benton will be a bit of a stretch.

 

I'm far from unhappy with the kit - it's a product of its' time, and it is a real shame to have lost Little Engines - I understand their A8 was superior to the still-available DJH version. And you are right, Mark- adding detail is part of the fun.

 

On another issue, I noticed Tony Wright's  build of an Isinglass Pigeon van. I an trying to source appropriate ex-NER stock for local passenger turns in the 1950's and see Isinglass have some drawings of NER coaches and seem to be able to 3D print from them. I dont suppose anyone can point me to appropriate Diagrams?

 

John

[Thane of Fife]

Good??? morning all

 

I bought the Little Engines T1 over 30 years ago. It was the first kit I encountered with an etched chassis.

I only built it when I retired 10 years ago. As it was designed as a slow moving hump shunter, I fitted it with a Mashima 1428 driving through a High Level 108:1 gearbox. It is slow, but can it push (haul)!

I built the Little Engines A7 just before the T1, and fitted it with a Portescap, as I hadn't discovered High Level gearboxes at the time. 

I had to cut away the back of the cylinders to get the bogies through 3ft radius points.

I quite like Little Engines kits; I have the A6, N1, and O4/7.

Thane of Fife

[rowanj]

21 minutes ago, Thane of Fife said:

Good??? morning all

 

 

I built the Little Engines A7 just before the T1, and fitted it with a Portescap, as I hadn't discovered High Level gearboxes at the time. 

I had to cut away the back of the cylinders to get the bogies through 3ft radius points.

I quite like Little Engines kits; I have the A6, N1, and O4/7.

Thane of Fife

 

I'm keeping one eye out for an A7 - one was sent to Tyne Dock in 1957 or so to replace a withdrawn T1. It wasn't a success, apparently, but I have a picture to prove it happened. 

I don't know what happened to the Little Engines moulds, but it would be good if someone could rescue them in the way SEF are doing with NUCast. Though whether the economics stack up is another matter.

John

Edited February 9, 2020 by rowanj

[MarkC]

I have an eBay rescue Little Engines A8 in the roundtuit pile - it will be interesting to compare it to my DJH offering, although of course that's now on one of Peter Stanger's A8 chassis. I suggest, though, that both Little Engines and DJH will be put to shame by Peter's complete A8...

 

I have a Little Engines A6, again from eBay - it needs rewheeling - and the difference between it and Arthur Kimber's A6 is striking.

 

My Little Engines A7 kit remains in the roundtuit pile - the class were too heavy for the Scarborough-Whitby line as far as I know, but it was bought for operation on a club layout that was never completed. (And, indeed, the club is now gone). Such is life...

 

To complete the Pacific Tank set, though, I have a Nucast A5 which runs nicely, and was a pleasure to build. One day I will build the Craftsman A5 that I have, to both compare and use - I am aware already that both the Nucast and Craftsman models aren't exact, but as 'layout locomotives' they will be just fine.

 

Mark

[46256]

On subject of old kits have a GEM cauliflower to build. It was bought second hand and when opening the box was very pleased to discover a Geo Norton etched chassis, with lost wax buffers. I've just received high flier roadrunner plus and 1219 motor. This combination though might make it more powerful than some od my bigger locos.

On that theme was giving my Bachmann A1 a run yesterday. It was'nt happy with a rake of seven coaches (including  2 with comet sides )on my unintentional gradient, on a curve. It made loud whirring noises and when finally got onto level track was ok. I remember some time ago various remedies were put forward ( appreciate initial batch had to be remotored) 

 

one remedy  I've read, removing the springing on front and rear pony and bogies ...views plse does this work?  

Edited February 9, 2020 by 46256

[46256]

Just been replying to John on a PM.

 

Since my earlier post have been into the loft. I have run comparison trials between the A1 and later A2. I even added another coach...making 8 in total. This is about right for an express on my medium sized layout. The A2 romped around... 

 

On the A1 I removed the rear Spring on pony truck....far better ,managed this train albeit not as well as the A2. I do note the A2 feels heavier in the rear boiler / firebox area than the A1. Not a scientific experiment..

john had just commented he too had removed the springs on A1 but it may cause problems with gearing.

 

All this big Eastern stuff on my Midland layout....where's that compound when you need it?

Edited February 9, 2020 by 46256

[John Tomlinson]

1 hour ago, 46256 said:

On subject of old kits have a GEM cauliflower to build. It was bought second hand and when opening the box was very pleased to discover a Geo Norton etched chassis, with lost wax buffers. I've just received high flier roadrunner plus and 1219 motor. This combination though might make it more powerful than some od my bigger locos.

On that theme was giving my Bachmann A1 a run yesterday. It was'nt happy with a rake of seven coaches (including  2 with comet sides )on my unintentional gradient, on a curve. It made loud whirring noises and when finally got onto level track was ok. I remember some time ago various remedies were put forward ( appreciate initial batch had to be remotored) 

 

one remedy  I've read, removing the springing on front and rear pony and bogies ...views plse does this work?  

Re. Bachmann A1, the short answer is yes.

 

When the A1 came out, a good 20 years ago now, I had a 60147 and 60158. The former was useless on hills, the latter not so bad, but not so great either. From memory, there is a coupling holder that sits between the front bogie and the bottom of the chassis, and this contributes to lifting the driving wheels from the rails. Dismantle the assembly and remove. There are also springs as I recall, I didn't remove completely but seem to remember cutting in half to help keep the front bogie from flopping too much. I seem to remember as well some springing on the rear pony that might have been a bit strong. Note you'll have to get inside the loco to do anything, as the front bogie assembly is a daft arrangement of screws inside.

 

The acid test is to put your loco on a bit of flat straight track so that you can see closely what's going on. If you can slide a piece of paper under the drivers,especially at the front, you need to do the mod. If you lift the front bogie or the pony a little and a driver lifts you also need to act, as most of us don't have perfectly flat track, however hard we tried!

 

By way of encouragement, I now have four of these, and they fair romp up my hills with eight on - could do more I'm sure.

 

John.

[mikemeg]

Believe it or not, this also started life as a Little Engines T1. But, I gradually discarded each part as it came out of the box, so that the only parts I finished up using were the cast boiler and chimney and dome. Everything else was scratch built!

 

The loco was built to P4 gauge, so clearances were very tight and the brakes were an absolute b****r to make and fit. The loco is fitted with a Comet 50 : 1 gearbox and a Mashima 1630, with a flywheel, so it does pull / push quite well. The all up weight of 16 ounces does also help with adhesion and its load hauling!! Now I would fit a High Level 120 : 1 (was 108 : 1) gearbox as I have to most of my 0-6-0  tanks. The loco will quite happily negotiate the ruling radii on my layout (minimum is 4' 6") but I wouldn't like to try and get one of these around any tighter radius as the front bogie would foul the cylinders and the eight coupled wheelbase could also be a problem.

 

Anyway, despite never intending this to be a scratch build, this finished up being my first attempt at scratch building - all except the boiler and the boiler fittings! Even the three link couplings were scratch built as, at the time, I didn't know these were commercially available. Now, of course, I buy them, though still in unassembled form!

 

Both this loco, and the one below, were brush painted using two coats of thinned Precision Paints weathered black. This after using aerosol Halfords grey primer. 

 

For anyone building any ex-North Eastern loco with a front bogie, It should be noted that the bogie wheels were twelve spoked!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

And, similarly, this one started out as a Little Engines A6. Here I used the boiler, smokebox and boiler fittings from the kit, scratch building the rest of the loco superstructure. The chassis is one of Arthur Kimber's etched nickel silver chassis'. Again, this loco was built to P4 gauge and utilises a High Level 54 : 1 gearbox with a Mashima 1426 motor so is a reasonable performer; capable of handling seven or eight fairly heavy bogie coaches relatively easily.

 

After this I stopped acquiring Little Engines kits as there are now far better etched examples available.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

Lovely work, Mike. can you remember, or better still have a photo, of what you did to the cab interior?

John

[mikemeg]

2 hours ago, rowanj said:

Lovely work, Mike. can you remember, or better still have a photo, of what you did to the cab interior?

John

 

John,

 

No but I do have another T1 in build. This is the body of the 52F kit, which is actually awaiting some modifications - additional detailing, not structural alterations - to the smokebox. Photos, below, show the cab internals from front and back. Note the side tank extensions inside the cab; these projected, at a reduced height to clear the cab cutouts, up to the cabside opening, the 'bull horn' regulator and the fire hole shield. The reversing lever is attached to the lower portion of the right hand side tank. Also note the cab rear locker, cab sandboxes and the stepped back to the cab rear, with the coal door and handle.

 

The detritus, in the bunker, is some lead offcuts and some hardened tissue paper, liberally covered in Araldite. This is to provide rear weight and to save having a bunker full of real coal; the real coal layer will just sit on top of and be glued to the detritus, once it is painted black.

 

I always paint and weather the cab interior before I fix the cab roof!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

Fantastic, Mike. Many, many thanks.

[mikemeg]

And here's a photo of the real thing! This photo, courtesy Mick Nicholson, shows the last survivor of the T1 class and was taken at Tyne Dock in 1960. Some interesting features; not least the coal on the cab roof! Looks a little forlorn, this loco, but still the sheer size of these locos is clearly apparent.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by mikemeg

[MarkC]

There was a photo put up on the 'net a few months ago of the very last T1, travelling from Tyne Dock to Darlington under her own power for breaking up. Very poignant, I thought

 

Mark

[rowanj]

Here is another picture I found of 69921, which may as well be the loco I'm building. It is a useful shot, as it confirms the buffer type, and also shows the "box" on the front spectacle plate behind the whistle.

[rowanj]

My attempt at the cab of the T1. The majority is just plasticard, together with a few castings I had in the spares box. I used Mike's photo, together with previous builds of NER tank locos, as a template, and at least it looks as though there is something going on in the cab. How much will be visible when the roof goes on is another matter...