Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[rowanj]

I'm struggling to light these pictures as I would wish, but they give an idea of the almost completed Little Engines T1. I assumed I had plenty of room to fit a 1220 motor, along with a Highlevel Compact+, but actually had to fit it to the leading driving axle. Otherwise, it tended to foul the firebox backplate, and was too tall to fit upright in its' original position on the second axle. I think I could have "reversed" it and used the 3rd axle, but it goes fine where it is, though it wouldn't have been my first choice.

 

The cab roof needs fitting - I wish I could devise a way to fit it "removable", and I'll think about it- Judicious Blutack? Otherwise coal, glazing front spectacle windows and numbering, then it will join the stock for Little Benton. actually, although a Tyne Dock loco, 10 miles or so away from the prototype, you had as much chance of seeing a King or Castle as a T1. Oh.. and I need a driver to keep the fireman company.

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by rowanj

[46256]

John nice model the irony of locos being so close yet so far to our chosen location. In. My case the iconic midland loco the jinty...not in my neck of the woods. In respect of the cab roof . I remember in the MRJ years ago....probably an article by Iain Rice. The roof was fitted with springing accomplished by wires soldered under which hold it in place.....then again he wasn't adverse to using blue tack to marry chassis and bodies together

[Barry O]

Lovely locos gents. My A6 has the bogie pivot in front of the bogie. It works and will go round reasonable corners without shorting. 

Baz

[rowanj]

The T1 has had the glazing done, and coal added. It is numbered only on one side, I used HMRS Pressfix but, as my locos are " No 6 intensive", I ran out of 6's and 9's. I assumed getting another sheet would be simple, but there seems to be a world shortage. I prefer HMRS sheets when applying to very flat matt,  black as it avoids the "halo" effect from carrier film on waterslide transfers. So a search for a 6 and 2 x 9's goes on.

 

The current project will hopefully produce some ex-NER coaches rather than rely on Gresley or Thompson suburbans.  They will be made from D&S etched kits, and I am impressed by the quality, and, no doubt, once you have build one you can build them all. First time around, however, I'm struggling to understand the instructions on how to fit the bogies and underframe together, and am looking for information on the interior colours for the compartment walls and upholstery. I assumed there would be a description of a build of a typical D&S bogie coach around to help, but haven't found one yet. Any pointers gratefully received.

[John Tomlinson]

For Pressfix transfers have you tried Wizard/ 51L/ MSE - all being the same outfit under Andrew Hartshorne.

 

He had a comprehensive set of the HMRS transfers at the Doncaster Show, although I didn't check if he had the BR steam numbers. I was looking for the GW/ BR loco lining and he was the only one there with them.

 

John.

[Paul Cram]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

The T1 has had the glazing done, and coal added. It is numbered only on one side, I used HMRS Pressfix but, as my locos are " No 6 intensive", I ran out of 6's and 9's. I assumed getting another sheet would be simple, but there seems to be a world shortage. I prefer HMRS sheets when applying to very flat matt,  black as it avoids the "halo" effect from carrier film on waterslide transfers. So a search for a 6 and 2 x 9's goes on.

 

The current project will hopefully produce some ex-NER coaches rather than rely on Gresley or Thompson suburbans.  They will be made from D&S etched kits, and I am impressed by the quality, and, no doubt, once you have build one you can build them all. First time around, however, I'm struggling to understand the instructions on how to fit the bogies and underframe together, and am looking for information on the interior colours for the compartment walls and upholstery. I assumed there would be a description of a build of a typical D&S bogie coach around to help, but haven't found one yet. Any pointers gratefully received.

D&S coaches have a strip that goes across each end of the body to which 10BA nots are soldered. the Underframe is then bolted to these. The bogies are the bolted to the underframe. I also put a strip across the top of the coach with a hole through and use bolts attached to the roof and a nut on the inside to attach the roof. This way they can be painted and then assenbled easily.

[rowanj]

HI Paul.

 

Your description seems to confirm what I suspected, but if I try to spell out what I think happens, can you confirm (or correct) my assumptions.

 

The bogie is attached with a 10ba nut, via a bush, to the bogie platform, which is then screwed through the underframe into the strip you described, which has been soldered to the bottom of the coach sides. 

 

John

 

Wizard, like everyone else, is showing that sheet "out of stock" The HMRS site has taken my money for one, so we wwill see what happens,

 

Thanks for the replies,

 

John

[jwealleans]

The last few D & S carriages I've built have a rectangular brass box which folds up and solders to the underframe using tabs in slots.   There's a short tapped brass cylinder with a rim which goes into the box, rim inside so the tapped part projects downwards.   The bogie then pivots on the projecting part, while the 10BA bolt screws in and retains it.   The bolt should be able to be pulled up tight while the bogie is free to pivot and also pitch or yaw slightly.  I can take pictures if they'd help.   Are there no detailed builds on here or the LNER Forum?  Maybe they were in the archive.

[mikemeg]

John,

 

In an earlier post, you referenced 'how to make the cab roof detachable while still a tight fit'.

 

Below is a photo of the inside of a model G5 cab roof with my own method for making the roof detachable whilst still a tight fit between the cab sides and between the front and rear cab sheets. This uses small pieces of 0.30" plasticard, cut to appropriate sizes for each different cab roof, and then fixed to the roof with Araldite. Once set, then the small pieces of plasticard can be slightly filed back to allow the roof to slot onto the cab top with an interference fit.

 

When the cab roof is located, these strips are completely invisible, as everything on the cab roof underside is painted black.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

[rowanj]

I have the bogies assembled and bolted temporarily to the underframe, as Jonathan describes above. they have been tested on curves and through pointwork and all seems well .The loco in the photo is my "short-bunker" J72, originally a Mainline loco on a Mainly trains chassis.

 

Jonathan - if you have photos of the underframe details of the Dia 53 or similar, that would be great.

Mike - I 'll try your roof suggestion on the T1

[Barry O]

You can solder brass wire into the corners of the roof ..these can  e "sprung into the cab sides to provide a way of holding the cab roof in place. Pretty robust as well.

Baz

[jwealleans]

I don't have a D53, John, but I hope these will be of use.   I didn't build this one, Dave Scott did and he knows his NER carriages.

 

 

 

 

[rowanj]

The photos above are really helpful, Jonathan. very many thanks.

John

[rowanj]

So far, so "so-so", with the D&S ex-NER Dia 53 "Birdcage" Brake 3rd.  The bogies are complete, and they couple to other stock via the Bachmann couplings. In lieu of a drawing, I used the pre-drilled holes to show where the various handles and rails went, though they don't match the only photo I found of what seems to be the same, or very similar, coach. Presumably, alterations were made during it's 50 year life, including removal by the LNER of a running board between the bogies, I'm going to omit this, and fit the underframe as a gas-lit coach with both vacuum and Westinghouse brakes (unless someone can tell me different)

 

The bogies, underframe, body and roof are just posed for the picture, but I have bolted together all bar the roof to check they align, and have run the coach to check it goes through points and round curves without derailing.

[rowanj]

One thing conspicuously missing from the Little Engines T1 kit is the reinforcing band across the top of the boiler cladding behind the dome. I spotted this first on Mik's build on his thread, then found a decent top=down photo of a loco at York. I'm actually not sure if my attempt is sufficiently chunky so I may have another go. It would actually have been better as a brass or whitemetal casting. But at least there will be something there, and I wont have to stare at it knowing something is missing.

[jwealleans]

I believe the Westinghouse gear was removed from most carriages during the 1930s, except in certain parts of the GE section.  I have seen a picture of a Westy fitted carriage after 1948, but not in the NE area.

[rowanj]

48 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

I believe the Westinghouse gear was removed from most carriages during the 1930s, except in certain parts of the GE section.  I have seen a picture of a Westy fitted carriage after 1948, but not in the NE area.

That's  a good tip, Jonathan, though a surprise given the number of locos still running on Tyneside in the 50's still carrying the Westinghouse pump. Saves me a job, though.

Thanks

John

[Michael Edge]

12 hours ago, rowanj said:

One thing conspicuously missing from the Little Engines T1 kit is the reinforcing band across the top of the boiler cladding behind the dome. I spotted this first on Mik's build on his thread, then found a decent top=down photo of a loco at York. I'm actually not sure if my attempt is sufficiently chunky so I may have another go. It would actually have been better as a brass or whitemetal casting. But at least there will be something there, and I wont have to stare at it knowing something is missing.

It really needs much more of a vertical portion - this is a hefty T section bolted on to the tank tops to stop them spreading outwards. It isn't attached to the boiler cladding.

[Daddyman]

12 hours ago, rowanj said:

a surprise given the number of locos still running on Tyneside in the 50's still carrying the Westinghouse pump

These were either for working the loco's (as opposed to the train's) brakes, or were isolated altogether. D20s, for example, had no W/house hose connection on the tender rear for much of their later lives. Yeadon shows this. 

 

Eileen's sells T-section brass and it will bend to the boiler profile; it may need annealing. 

[rowanj]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

It really needs much more of a vertical portion - this is a hefty T section bolted on to the tank tops to stop them spreading outwards. It isn't attached to the boiler cladding.

Mike/David (Daddyman). Thanks for the posts. I regard it a complement when modellers of your pedigree make the effort to comment on my posts.

 

The tank supports - I remembered after reading the posts that I knew what they were - actually look a bit more substantial once painted. The camera hadn't really picked up the wire soldered to the scrap etch strip on the original post. Because I added it too late in the day, it is only superglued to the boiler, so can be removed if a better solution comes to light. I did wonder if Peco "3rd rail" might work.

 

Thanks again

 

John

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by rowanj

[Michael Edge]

It shouldn't actually touch the boiler cladding, there's a noticeable gap, it's fitted to the top of the tanks.

[Daddyman]

12 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

It shouldn't actually touch the boiler cladding, there's a noticeable gap, it's fitted to the top of the tanks.

Possibly visible here:

 

[rowanj]

This is the prototype of The D&S NER Birdcage Brake 3rd, currently in course of construction. As I will be running the coach at the end of its'life, and having received a tremendous amount of advice on the subject, mine will have electric lighting, and Westinghouse brakes removed along with the central footboard. 

I'm not sure about the roof layout. There is no reference to them in the kit, but the photo and the drawing on the box suggests there is something - a roof window?- either side of the birdcage. This makes sense to add light to the guards' compartment, but I don't know what it looks like. I also think covers were fitted where the gas lamps were removed, and want to fit them, but were they square or circular? I'm guessing circular, more or less the same diameter as the bottom of the lamps.

The coach has managed to get full "scrumbled teak". By my time, it would be plain brown with black ends. I used Jonathan's recommendation  of Humbrol 186 with a touch of black. It's an interesting colour, in that it looks MUCH lighter in full light than in shadow. But it does look like some of the colour photos I have of LNER Brown coaches, and weathering will darken it further. 

[micklner]

Does the kit include the Roof Lights as a etch ? It does look like two are fitted, D&S normally include such parts if needed. Lovely photo.

[rowanj]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

Does the kit include the Roof Lights as a etch ? It does look like two are fitted, D&S normally include such parts if needed. Lovely photo.

Hi Mick. Well, I have found an etch which I think is for the roof lights,  though  they are rather small.  So that will suffice.

The photo came courtesy of Headstock, and  believe the location is York. That would account for the condition, as it looks ex works from York Carriage Works.