Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[rowanj]

Hi Andrew.

 

As luck would have it, there was a  twice- weekly pick-up goods from Scots Gap on the Wansbeck Line which carried a Dia 210 specifically for the Hedgehog Mart which was held every Tues and Fri at the Auction Mart at Marlborough Crescent in Newcastle. The train ran to Morpeth and then on Tues came straight down the EMCL to Central, and on Friday used the Blyth and Tyne Route via Bedlington.

The usual loco was a Blyth J27, which is fortuitous, as I have been playing with an unmade NuCast kit with a whitemetal chassis, I have filed out the gap to take a Markits Slimline Motor Mount, and have fitted a cheap Mitsumi motor. The loco will be built as 65863, one of the final ones to keep the extended smokebox, despite it having been de-superheated in 1959. There are a couple of photos of the loco on North Blyth Shed in this condition in 1962.

When not on Hedgehog Duty, it will find more normal work on my rake of 21t hoppers.

 

John

Edited June 21, 2020 by rowanj

[Headstock]

3 hours ago, rowanj said:

Hi Andrew.

 

As luck would have it, there was a  twice- weekly pick-up goods from Scots Gap on the Wansbeck Line which carried a Dia 210 specifically for the Hedgehog Mart which was held every Tues and Fri at the Auction Mart at Marlborough Crescent in Newcastle. The train ran to Morpeth and then on Tues came straight down the EMCL to Central, and on Friday used the Blyth and Tyne Route via Bedlington.

The usual loco was a Blyth J27, which is fortuitous, as I have been playing with an unmade NuCast kit with a whitemetal chassis, I have filed out the gap to take a Markits Slimline Motor Mount, and have fitted a cheap Mitsumi motor. The loco will be built as 65863, one of the final ones to keep the extended smokebox, despite it having been de-superheated in 1959. There are a couple of photos of the loco on North Blyth Shed in this condition in 1962.

When not on Hedgehog Duty, it will find more normal work on my rake of 21t hoppers.

 

John

 

Good evening John,

 

great to see you back on my, errr your thread, I've kept it nice and warm and prickly for you. I hope there wasn't any health and safety concerns with prickly heat virus at the Newcastle Hedgehog mart?

 

p,s. I forgot to compliment you on your J39 with NER tender, I think that the locomotives looked like the Hedgehogs thingies with that combination. I wonder if any of the Colwick or Annesley gang had them.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Headstock

[65179]

13 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

p,s. I forgot to compliment you on your J39 with NER tender, I think that the locomotives looked like the Hedgehogs thingies with that combination. I wonder if any of the Colwick or Annesley gang had them.

 

Can't be sure about hedgehogs, but Colwick had various J39s with NER tenders over the years. Try 64988.

 

Simon

[Headstock]

21 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

Can't be sure about hedgehogs, but Colwick had various J39s with NER tenders over the years. Try 64988.

 

Simon

 

Good morning Simon, what time period are we talking about?

[65179]

64983 and 988 were at Colwick from 1941 to withdrawal. 64974 was at Colwick from 4/47 to withdrawal. Others in the same batch had spells at Colwick. I just gave 64988 as an example because I'd seen a photo confirming it still had its NER tender later than your time period (Try Rail Online).

 

I stumbled across 64983 as a possible NER tendered loco when reading about confirmed locos on the Deansgate-Colwick goods in 1950 (taken from an ex-MR signalbox register) a few weeks ago.

 

Simon

[rowanj]

NER tenders on J39 locos is a bit complicated as I discovered to my cost. Yeadon lists 3 types used  , 

 

1475-9. Ordered 1934 with  ex Raven A2 4125 self trimming tender

 

3081_3098 .Ordered 1940  Ten got 4125 gallon tenders ex D21 and eight got 3650 gallon ex D17. Numbers 3081-7/9 got the smaller tender. Quite a few of the 1940 batch were at Colwick .

 

I can PM the relevant pages if it will help

John

Edited June 22, 2020 by rowanj

[65179]

John,

 

In amongst the pictures the Yeadon volume states that 3088 and 3090-3098 got the 4125 gallon tenders.

 

Simon

[rowanj]

39 minutes ago, 65179 said:

John,

 

In amongst the pictures the Yeadon volume states that 3088 and 3090-3098 got the 4125 gallon tenders.

 

Simon

Hi Simon , yes ,I spotted them and made the edit. 

I was lucky to have a photo of an appropriate loco for the spare DJH tender I had, left over from a D20. Even then, I doubt it would suit a lot of folk, but I was happy to stick it behind an old Bachmann loco It makes a nice change. I haven't spotters Colwick loco for Andrew in Yeadon, and suspect he, quite rightly, would source a bettr tender from the likes of LRM

[Headstock]

4 hours ago, rowanj said:

Hi Simon , yes ,I spotted them and made the edit. 

I was lucky to have a photo of an appropriate loco for the spare DJH tender I had, left over from a D20. Even then, I doubt it would suit a lot of folk, but I was happy to stick it behind an old Bachmann loco It makes a nice change. I haven't spotters Colwick loco for Andrew in Yeadon, and suspect he, quite rightly, would source a bettr tender from the likes of LRM

 

I do like a good tender kit. like a sporty version of NER BZ with the roof turned down. It's horses for courses when it comes to kit choice. I tend to build whole trains, from the loco down tho the last carriage or wagon or van. Theoretically, I only need one locomotive per train and a few spares.  I'm not a loco spotter/collector type modeler. Two many locomotives would seems like an extravagance and having more locomotives than stock would be heresy. 

 

As a result, I can be pretty choosy when it comes to what I buy and build and spend my time on. locomotives will always be essential modeling purchases rather than a whim, otherwise the train will not run. They will also, always be dictated by what was allocated to the  train that I am modeling. I find that turning research into solid matter is very fulfilling and provides some excellent goals to work towards.

 

 I never have a large amount of kits in stock, for me this is a good thing, the hoarding of kits would be counterproductive. Knowing exactly what I want, I can bide my time and strike as and when something may become available, rather than being stuck with a pile of old duffers, half wants and never builds from before the ark. In this way, everything gets built. I'm quite happy twiddling away on one reasonably good quality build, rather than owning every member of a class. While I'm busy eating up the minutes, hours, days and years with modelling,  the things that I need rather than want, have always become available,  just give it enough time.

[rowanj]

The NuCast J27 and Wills A4 currently on the workbench must have nearly 100 years between them. The Mitsumi motor now fits in the J27 chassis , in its' Markits mount. These motors used to be available at £10 for 5. I usually got a dodgy one in the batch, and certainly wouldn't recommend them for a loo doing high mileage but for normal use with a reasonable load, I haven't had a problem once they are up and running.

The main problem is that they fit askew in the motor mount or gearbox. I have seen descriptions where the motor or gearbox has been drilled so the motor sits normally, and I'll have a go at that one day. In the meantime, the motor is "fatter" than it needs to be, so a fair amount of metal needed removing from the firebox of the J27. Quite why the motor was designed that way is a mystery.

It's years since I built a Wills A4, and the 4 part boiler is still a pain, hence the Milliput filler. But the overall look of the streamline casing is as good as any ,in my opinion, after all these years. This will be 60024 Kingfisher.

I have been admiring the finish on some wagon kits here and there, so revisited a couple of bog-standard Parkside kits. I run a Tweedmouth - Newcastle relief Meat and Fish which was a (very) early morning train when a relief to the Scots Beef or one of the Aberdeen Fish trains was not required. I dirtied these two wagons using Tamiya weathering chalks when I had them on the workbench to add some weight. I have a couple of unmade kits to complete the short rake - I don't have a photo of the actual train, but suspect it was not always particularly long, as I assume there were no vans, or not too many, from Scotland in the train.

John

 

[46256]

I seem to recall John that TW rates the shape of the wills A 4.... Just remembered where I read it ....comparing it to the then Hotnby A. 4....since modified. In any event enjoying it taking  shape 

[rowanj]

A couple of "proving" pictures of the Wills A4 show show a couple of places which need tidying up.  Other than the standard kit, I fitted a couple of pieces of Plasticard to represent the bottom of the firebox- this would be hidden if the valances were fitted as in pre-War condition- and an ashpan lever . I had a couple of goes at the casing for the smokebox number plate, and it looked OK in real life, but the photo does it no favours.  The plates on the boiler sides with the emblem from HMS KINGFISHER were not included in my nameplate pack, and I'll have to see if my efforts to represent them work out when the loco is painted.

The Comet etch for the trailing pony truck also look a bit bare, so I'll try to add some detail to fill them up.

 

[Jon4470]

14 minutes ago, rowanj said:

A couple of "proving" pictures of the Wills A4 show show a couple of places which need tidying up.  Other than the standard kit, I fitted a couple of pieces of Plasticard to represent the bottom of the firebox- this would be hidden if the valances were fitted as in pre-War condition- and an ashpan lever . I had a couple of goes at the casing for the smokebox number plate, and it looked OK in real life, but the photo does it no favours.  The plates on the boiler sides with the emblem from HMS KINGFISHER were not included in my nameplate pack, and I'll have to see if my efforts to represent them work out when the loco is painted.

The Comet etch for the trailing pony truck also look a bit bare, so I'll try to add some detail to fill them up.

 

 

Looking good!

 

I have one of these in my stash so I’m interested to see how well it will scrub up. As you commented earlier the four piece body shell looks “interesting” to get correct.

 

Jon

[rowanj]

4 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Looking good!

 

I have one of these in my stash so I’m interested to see how well it will scrub up. As you commented earlier the four piece body shell looks “interesting” to get correct.

 

Jon

Thanks, Jon. There has been a great degree of happy nostalgia with this kit- i did build a couple of Wills Pacifics back in the day, with a modicum of success, but they are long gone. 

 

One thing I wasnt going to do was build the tender as per the instructions, which say "assembly is straightforward". To be fair, it mostly is, but I couldnt see myself using the plastic tender wheels, running in the bare whitemetal axle holes. The tender sides and frames are a substantial one-piece casting, and I vividly recall hanging on for grim death, trying to keep 4 pairs of wheels in place and the tender square, while the epoxy hardened. Soldering may have made life easier, but I still would have needed an extra pair of hands.

 

Anyway, I decided to build a dummy chassis, then remembered I had a SEF etch which came with an A2 chassis I built last year. It is designed to fit all the A2/3/4 family, and has the brake gear supplied with the etch. 

 

Photo shows it almost complete.

 

Have a go at yours, Jon. It will take you back into less accurate but happy modelling times if you are anything like me.

 

john

[rowanj]

The chassis is almost complete - I'm not sure whether to bother fitting the brake rods- so just the small matter of fitting the motion and motor. The gearbox will be from Highlevel. I have a few so will see which one fits, probably a Highflyer, The motor is likely to be a Taff Valley Models 1227, a nice powerful motor, but again, one which fits askew in the gearbox. Why are motors drilled this way?

 

The photo cruelly shows a brake which needs adjusting, and the whistle looks a bit like it has been bent forward, 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by rowanj

[cctransuk]

22 minutes ago, rowanj said:

.... one which fits askew in the gearbox. Why are motors drilled this way?

 

Because the purpose for which these motors were originally designed had no connection to model railways.

 

High Level gearboxes were designed to accept Mashima motors - we now have to use other designs of motors that were not designed for our purposes.

 

It is perfectly possible to drill extra fixing holes in a High Level gearbox - this is how you do it for a Mitsumi motor.

 

 

John Isherwood.

[rowanj]

49 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Because the purpose for which these motors were originally designed had no connection to model railways.

 

John Isherwood.

Thanks, John. I knew the Mitsumi's were designed for other things - car components, CD players etc. and was/am usually happy to live with them fitted askew. I have usually got them to fit into a boiler, with some judicious filing. One is being used in a J27 under construction in this way. I was a bit more surprised that the Taff Valley motor was drilled like thi, but in an A4 boiler, there is plenty of room.

Just to horrify proper modellers, I actually found that securing the Mitsumi's by the lowest screwing point,, getting the meshing in place on a the motor mount, I can then solder the motor to the mount at the top to keep it in the traditional upright position.  I've done this a couple of times, and it works, but I'd only do it with a cheap motor- just in case.

Edited July 1, 2020 by rowanj

[cctransuk]

Given the statement "Designed specifically for use in model locomotives, they are not re-purposed from other applications and we can ensure ongoing supplies", one has to wonder why the mounting holes are located such that the motor ends up at an angle.

 

John Isherwood.

[manna]

G'day Folks

 

The last lot of motors I just bought from China, 10 for $20, are from the 'electric side mirrors' for the car, this is the second lot I've bought, the first lot have done very well in all my loco's.

 

manna

[rowanj]

In my view, there is no point in posting stuff which only shows successes, and the Nu Cast J27 is anything but that. I remember Dave Alexander being pretty disparaging about the kit, but I had one lying around in the loft, and what I thought were enough parts in the spares box to get it running, so dug it out during lockdown.

 

I intended to use the whitemetal chassis, with Scalelink wheels, and a Mitsumi motor in a Markits mount as the working parts. As I posted earlier, the motor sits askew, making it very tight in the firebox. I actually filed so much away that I holed the firebox on one side, and still couldnt get the motor in with the boiler in the correct position. When it started to slip out of gear, it nearly went in the bin, and I seriously thought about building a scratch chassis instead- assuming that I could.

 

However, I persevered, and semi-straightened the motor, using the screw in the bottom fixing hole, meshing the gears, then soldering the motor to the mount at the top. I hear the anguished cries from here....

 

More to follow, but Mrs rowanj wants to go for a walk

 

edit

Nice stroll around the former Waggonways on the Backworth Colliery Complex.

 

 So I tested the motor/mount and it came out of gear in reverse. After much fiddling, I remembered that the gear on the axle is "handed", so switched it round and all was well. Once fitted in the chassis, and wheels fitted, all ran well, and the body sat as it should on the chassis ,I had the usual fettling job on the con-rod holes to get the chassis rolling smoothly, but all seems well, and I dont have to scratch-build one. I dont know if I'm glad or sorry.

 

The brakes, I'm afraid, are plastic , epoxyed to the chassis. I need to fabricate the very prominent guard irons, but may fit these to the loco rather than he chassis - we shall see,

 

Now for the body.....ugh!

Edited July 13, 2020 by rowanj
Added info

[rowanj]

This is the loco I'm modelling. the photo is from Yeadon, but I'm sure Arthur Kimber posted another of the loco, taken at Blyth, which I need to track down. I did fit the balance weights to the centre drivers, and the idea was that, given that J27's were the most common locos when I was spotting at my chosen prototype, this would make a change from my pair of Dave Alexander kits.

Hundreds of these NuCast kits must have been built over the years, and there are some nice examples on RMWeb and elsewhere. I take off my hat to those who managed a decent build, because my kit is horrible. The castings are of poor quality, with loads of flashing and some of the fitting is pretty ordinary.  

The kit offers 3 chimneys and 2 domes, and I'm not entirely convinced by any of them. The one which looks closest to the photo is perched on the body, and I'll remove the capuchon when the time is right. The boiler represents the original Dia 57, which is fair enough, but the loco, by my time had the later 57A with fewer boiler bands, in different places. I've begun that mod.

What looks most odd is the cab height, which, on the kit, seems to tower over the boiler. I cant see any obvious way of altering that without some drastic surgery. The windows on the model are the same size, while the rear one appears bigger, due to the lack of beading. I may have a go at that.

Now Dave, and his kit, is no longer with us, I would have thought a modern etched kit would be a real option. I know there is an RTR one on the drawing board, and Dave Bradwell produces a kit, but the former is some time off, and the latter is a kit for a pretty experienced modeller, though builds into something extra-ordinary. For "Mr Average" like me , LRM/PDK/ArthurK is the standard which suits,

Edited July 14, 2020 by rowanj

[micklner]

Bradwell kit isnt that hard to build and gives a excellent result. The only hard ish bit was the chassis, which is really intended for P4/EM , OO is doeable. His excellent castings are available as spares.

 

I still have a 30+ years old Nu cast J27 with the cast chassis which works fine. The only thing I dont like are the awful cast coal rails on the Tender.

[MarkC]

Interesting thoughts on the Nucast J27. I built one about 8 years ago, but sold it on to a friend (and fellow member of this parish) when I thought that it would not be required for my project layout. Earlier this year I discovered that one was actually seen at my chosen location - Sod's Law in action...

 

I have subsequently aquired a collection of J27 parts from the usual notorious auction site, at a good price; with these bits and a scale drawing I'll be able to put together a reasonable "layout loco" in due course. Yes, the Nucast J27 is another kit "of its time", but it's not a complete turkey.

 

Mark.

[rowanj]

6 hours ago, MarkC said:

Interesting thoughts on the Nucast J27. I built one about 8 years ago, but sold it on to a friend (and fellow member of this parish) when I thought that it would not be required for my project layout. Earlier this year I discovered that one was actually seen at my chosen location - Sod's Law in action...

 

I have subsequently aquired a collection of J27 parts from the usual notorious auction site, at a good price; with these bits and a scale drawing I'll be able to put together a reasonable "layout loco" in due course. Yes, the Nucast J27 is another kit "of its time", but it's not a complete turkey.

 

Mark.

Hello, Mark.

Perhaps I've been a bit too harsh in my criticism of the kit. It may be that my building skills don't help, and, to be fair, it is starting to look like a J27. As you say, the kit is of its' time, and we were glad to get them back then. i actually looked at the loco as a rear three-quarter view, and thought it wasn't too bad.

 

I have made a start on the tender, hoping to get away without the horrid sub-chassis and the additional weight it brings. Pinpoint bearing have been force-fitted into the frames, and the wheels should run freely in them. If that works OK, then it's just down to detailing. I don't see a reversing lever or guard irons in the kit, but none of that is too difficult to fabricate

 

 

[rowanj]

This is that threequarter view, with the basic tender assembled. Actually, Mick, I found the castings on the coal rails to be pretty good, though not, of course, as good as an etch. however, the kit has 3-rail while the prototype photo shows 4- rail. However a Railscot photo taken at North Blyth in 58/59 shows a 3-rail tender.  It also looks to have a single whistle on the cab roof, and a 57 boiler. It looks like the changes between the photos occurred in March 1959. Here , for info, is the link.

https://railscot.co.uk/img/35/637/