Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[rowanj]

So here is the D20 in action, on its 'regular turn- an Alnwick-Newcastle stopper, This was the last haunt of the Class, based at the Tweedmouth sub-shed at Alnmouth, 

The kit itself is superb, and actually easier to build and get right than the DJH model. I'm glad I had a go at the rebuilt tender, though, like most things, I would make a better job second-time round, especially with the join around the top panel.

 

Next stop, the semi-scratchbuild J24- in the words of John Lennon, "Some may say I'm a dreamer"  - and there is a PDK D49 Hunt in the pile.

[rowanj]

Goodness knows how the J24 will turn out. I've never scratchbuilt a loco, and the only chassis I built was nearly 50 years ago, when I managed to get something to run under a modified Wills A2 running as an A1. Hopefully, my experience with etched kits will help. To roll out the cliches, "nothing ventured, nothing gained", and if it doesnt work, all I've lost is some brass sheet.

 

This adventure came about when I saw what was left over from building a pair of LRM J21 kits, In the kits are cab fronts and sides and the front splashers  for the J25, These looked similar to the J24, and,in fact, when I checked them against the Isinglass J24 drawing, they seem identical. Both these parts would have tested my skill level, so that was a relief.

 

I was always going to need to cut out a footplate and roll a boiler,  and thought I might be able to pick up a chassis from LRM, but the J24 is shorter and has a different wheelbase, so a scratchbuilt chassis is needed, If the chassis and body work, I;ll probablysource a tender kit rather than scratchbuild one, But that is somewhere in the distant future.

 

A very tentative start has been made on the chassis, The wheelebase is 7 ft 9in x 8 ft  (so 31mmx 32mm.), and by chance, I found some suitable coupling rods amongst the spares. I have no memory where they came from. I'm using Simon Bolton's book on scratchbuilding as a sort of bible, and I'm going to use the LRM J25 I have as a guide for the various shapes and curves, My chassis fabrication is pretty crude, The 2 brass sides of K & S brass were soldered together at 3 points along the top edge, the centre line for the wheels scribed using the Isinglass plan, then, again from the plan I marked out and pilot drilled the centre axle hole, using the diameter of the coupling rod as a guide,. I then pinned the coupling rods through that hole, and used them to drill  the outer axle holes, If it works, this would be an alternative to soldering the coupling rods to the chassis blank,  I have begun to gradually open the holes ready for bearings,

 

I've also cut out the blank for the footplate, No doubt to the disgust of true engineers, I simply photocopied the Isinglass drawing, cut out the footplate from the drawing, sellotaped it to the brass sheet and using some fantastic scissors which my wife got from QVC to cut meat, cut out the metal, very slightly oversized just in case. ( In case she reads this, i mean the extra pair she bought me -not the ones she uses for culinary work),

 

 

Edited March 7 by rowanj

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Watching watching............🙂

 

manna

[rowanj]

The chassis has been "shaped" using the LRM J25 as a sort of proxy, I thought I had some Romford/Markits 18mm wheels, but no such luck, so have used Scalelink ones for testing purposes, Spacers were from a Mainly Trains/Wizard fret, supplemented by cut down EM?P4 ones from previous builds. All seems nice and square. I want to add springs, but can't find a source as yet, Equally, 18mm Romfords seem to be in short supply.

 

I had a bit of a "fettling fest" to get the wheels to revolve with the coupling rods fitted,, but have manged. Part of the problem was the plastic centred wheels shifting on the axles, ifitted larger Romfords just to check, and that showed they will work when the correct wheels are fitted, I'm not happy with the look of them, however, so I'll go back and see what I either have, or can source, 

 

 

[rowanj]

Here are are a couple of photos of the J24, Just to give credit where it is due, I'm only building this (or trying to), because the LRM J21/J25 kit includes etches for the cab and front splasher for both locos, so I had an "interesting" set of spares 

 

The chassis is almost complete and I'll start to assemble the Highlevel motor/gearbox next,  i decided I could not put up with the look of the original coupling rods, so have managed to fabricate replacements. They still are not perfect, so I found a couple of sets on Wizard Models which should cut and shut to fit, It will be a test of my original marking out when I come to try and fit them.

 

Talking of wheels, I got in contact with Markits, who have a set of J27.26.25  in their catalogue, It turns out they also do a set for the J24, so I ordered those, If this build goes sideways, I'll use the wheels on another J25 from LRM.

 

But what can go wrong?  The footplate has been cut out and buffer beam, drag beam and side valances fitted. The buffer beam was in the spares box, and had etched folds to represent the wooden slab  behind the steel plate, The drag beams were also in the spares, i doubt if they are prototypical, but who sees them anyway, which is a pity as one was a lovely rivetted overlay, I soldered it to a blank piece of brass to give it the necessary strength, The valances were cut from brass offcuts, and I admit I cut about 6 to get the 2  that I could live with.

 

Cutting out the footplate was a slow job. I read Bolton;s book, and he suggested taking lots of measurements and marking things out, scribing lines, cutting around them in one piece and Bob's your uncle, If only I had done Technical Drawing and Metalwork at school instead of Latin.!  I used the chassis to mark out where the centre piece should be removed, checking to see how LRM had done it on the J25, then drilled 4 hoes to take the piercing saw plade, I scribed a line between them and cut away, knowing the rectanglar hole would be slightly too small, which is better than the alternative, The same basic method was used to cut out the areas where the wheeels pass through the footplate, I always found I needed to remove a bit more metal at every turn,,But   better that than having to start again on the whole thing, One thing I did do was, on the advice, I think, ff Tony Gee, was to invest in good quality precion blades for the piercing saw, I have unpleasant memories of blades breaking very readily when using blades from hobby shops. To get to this stage with body and chassis, only 1 blade has broken,

 

Next stage- complete the chassis,, roll a boiler, and hopefully, we will have something that doesnt look like it's in North Road Scrapyard.

 

[Blandford1969]

Thats coming along really well. 

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

You may not have taken Tech Drawing and metalwork, but your doing a good job, and you have one advantage over most of us, you can 'Swear' at it in Latin !!!!!!!

 

manna

Edited March 15 by manna
spelling

[rowanj]

" Next stage, roll a boiler....."

 

Although I had practiced a bit on the G W Roller, the boiler on the photo is my 3rd attempt at one for the J24 and I still need to ensure I get the cuts for the firebox right, So what went wrong?

 

The boiler is the same 4ft 3in as the J21, J25, but shorter.  On the first roll, the diamater looked right- i.e 17mm- but when compared with the LRM kit, was obviusly too narrow, research showed I should have added another 2 or 2-5 mm to account for the boiler cladding, which added 8 inches or so. On the second one, the boiler was too long, and I messed it up trying to cut it back. So this is number 3,

 

Getting the blank as near as possible to the right size is pretty critical, I think, The formula is Pi x the diameter of the boiler.

 

As for the mess- up, as Mark Antony said to Cleopatra after the Battle of Alexandria ."Stercus accidit"- S**t happens"

 

 

Edited March 14 by rowanj

[46256]

My favourite Latin from Porridge I believe nil carborundum illegitimi 

 

don’t let the -xxxx grind you down

[Daddyman]

17 hours ago, rowanj said:

Getting the blank as near as possible to the right size is pretty critical, I think, The formula is Pi x the diameter of the boiler.

Haven't done it for a while, but isn't it Pi x diameter minus (2 x thickness of the metal) - i.e. in this case Pi x 18mm - (0.6 [assuming 10 thou]) = Pi x 17.4. I can't understand why, but Pi x 18 rolls a boiler which is too big, whereas Pi x 17.4 produces one which is right. 

[rowanj]

4 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Haven't done it for a while, but isn't it Pi x diameter minus (2 x thickness of the metal) - i.e. in this case Pi x 18mm - (0.6 [assuming 10 thou]) = Pi x 17.4. I can't understand why, but Pi x 18 rolls a boiler which is too big, whereas Pi x 17.4 produces one which is right. 

I'm sure your revised formula is accurate David. I got the one I used from a really nice Nick Dunhill  Youtube video, and, after using it, found that the blank brass was too long and needed cutting to get a neat butt joint, I then had a "duh" moment, not for the first time, as Nick was rolling a boiler in O Gauge, I'll know for the next one, if there is one.

[rowanj]

The motor gearbox is now assembles and test- fitted into the chassis,Just a standard Highlevel Compact and motor. I find these boxes to be a bit fiddly, but certainly not difficult to assemble, There seems to be plenty room in the firebox, so I'll cut the necessary piece out of the boiler bottom, test fit and then complete the chassis detail, fit the rods and paint it.

As can hopefully be seen, I replaced the valances on the body, Though they looked OK in real life, photos showed too many creases and bumps for my liking, and as a lot of this build is to see what  I can (or can't) do, I had another go using thin 1mm rod, This, apart from looking better, gives the footplate added rigidity.

[rowanj]

A major step forward has seen the chassis and motor assembled, Tested with power applied directly to the motor, it actually goes! Some tidying up and pick-ups fitted should be that. It is, however, pretty light so I'll see where I can add a bit of lead,

 

The basic superstructure of the loco body is also done, I've started to fit the splashers, have found a chimney and smokebox door, but seem to have lost the dome I was sure I had,  The body fits the chassis, so, hopefully, the acid test of running the thing assembled will work, and that should leave only the detailing to do, (Only, he said!).

[46256]

Hello John always a nice moment when any chassis you have built runs smoothly. I envy you at the moment, not done any chassis work/ soldering in a while.  I am even missing not assembling high level gearboxes.

 

best wishes Brian 

Edited March 17 by 46256

[rowanj]

On 17/03/2024 at 15:15, 46256 said:

Hello John always a nice moment when any chassis you have built runs smoothly. I envy you at the moment, not done any chassis work/ soldering in a while.  I am even missing not assembling high level gearboxes.

 

best wishes Brian 

Another nice moment is to see a chimney and dome in place, even if just with a bit of Blacktack, The fit between loco and chassis, unfortunately, is a bit awry, but I should be able to sort it out.

 

Unless I hit a snag of interesting proportions, the rest is really just detailing. so hopefully, the nest photo will be the completed body., Some bits will need to be fabricated- the piano front on the smokebox looks to be a pain-

Edited March 25 by rowanj

[rowanj]

What do you reckon? 6 out of 10.? For my first scratch-build, at 74, I'm pretty chuffed, even though no Gold Medal will be winging its= way to Little Benton, The loco is still borrowing a tender, and needs the cab finishing and glazing- my effort at at a backhead is lying in front of the loco. Buffer beam and glazing next, then I;ll give it a spin with a pick-up freight.

[46256]

Hello John well done what’s next on the scratchbuild list a Raven pacific perhaps. . No excuse it being not your modelling period.

Humour aside I think when you build or adapt your own models you create more than just a replica 

 

best wishes Brian 

[rowanj]

26 minutes ago, 46256 said:

Hello John well done what’s next on the scratchbuild list a Raven pacific perhaps. . No excuse it being not your modelling period.

Humour aside I think when you build or adapt your own models you create more than just a replica 

 

best wishes Brian 

Ny therapist says I should just build a plastic wagon kit after all that stress, I told him I needed a tender and had aPDK D49 Hunt to do, and he warned there may be serious consequences.

 

I wonder if I should go really mad and look at an A7?

[Nick Lawson]

3 hours ago, rowanj said:

What do you reckon?

Well I have enjoyed this build. I also have J25 and J21 kits (in progress) and the consequent left overs; and now yet another aspiration!

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, rowanj said:

What do you reckon? 6 out of 10.? For my first scratch-build, at 74, I'm pretty chuffed, even though no Gold Medal will be winging its= way to Little Benton, The loco is still borrowing a tender, and needs the cab finishing and glazing- my effort at at a backhead is lying in front of the loco. Buffer beam and glazing next, then I;ll give it a spin with a pick-up freight.

John, award yourself a gold winning medal if you enjoyed building it.  Well done.

[Clive Mortimore]

On 13/03/2024 at 14:13, rowanj said:

 If only I had done Technical Drawing and Metalwork at school instead of Latin.! 

Hi John,

 

I am sure there were words you learnt that increased your cursing vocabulary that your Latin master didn't teach you that came in handy whilst building the J24.

 

When making something and I run out of English expletives I am so glad our unit shared the same camp as the Gurkhas. I have some backup swear words. 

[rowanj]

16 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi John,

 

I am sure there were words you learnt that increased your cursing vocabulary that your Latin master didn't teach you that came in handy whilst building the J24.

 

When making something and I run out of English expletives I am so glad our unit shared the same camp as the Gurkhas. I have some backup swear words. 

Luckily, I have a good supply of French swearwords in reserve. I needed them as, when I came to fit the back head it fouled the motor. In addition, thanks to a helpful post from Mikemeg, it was clear that I had made the fire guard too big and the reversing lever too tall.

Merde!

 

[rowanj]

The J24 is still waiting for a tender.I'll keep looking, but wonder if I should just have a go at building one. 65615 was one of a handful whuch lasted long enough to get a BR number at its'last General at Darlington in 1948, None got a BR emblem, so the tender will have BRITISH RAILWAYS on the side, This loco got a 69A boiler, so that is what I have tried to replicate- both the 69 and 69A are on the Isinglass drawing, This loco also transferred from Malton to Borough Gardens at Gateshead after its; general, so fits better than most of the others which got to 1950/51 for my layout's purpose.

 

Before I re-united the J25 with its' tender, I took a comparative photo to show the relationship between it, (a P1) and its shorter, elder brother, or is it sister (Class P),

Behind it is the bsic chassis of what I hope will be a PDK D49/2 THE GOATHLAND, looking a little like it did in a couple of photos in North Road Scrapyard. I'm just following the instructions, so see little point in posting loads of photos. So far, all the fits have been fine, though I had to file the axle bushes back on the "live wheels" side to get them to turn. I;ve also omitted the overlays for the springs, but who can see anyway. Sneaking into the picture, so I thought I may as wll leave it, is my preferred solding flux.