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rowanj

Building BR ex-LNER from kits.

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Pure guesswork on my part but it looks as if the roof is actually the top surface. It looks as if the curves should be formed then the profile pieces rotated and clicked into place (there is a small rebate in the profiles to hold them in place).  The formed side curves can then be soldered to the profiles. Finally the clerestory side can be soldered to the upright portions protruding through the roof.

 

Hope that makes sense.

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37 minutes ago, MikeTrice said:

 

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

It certainly does, Mike, and I'm sure that is the principle. Perhaps it's just my cack-handedness, but doing it that way distorted the roof way beyond the provisional bend I'd put on it the match the curve on the top of the coach sides.

 

Filing a notch has resulted in a good fit, and I soldered in a pair at each end. I then fitted one clerestory side to check what was happening - this needed a small degree of filing of the tabs and opening a couple of slots, but nothing drastic. It confirmed the top piece of etch on the clerestory side is just scrap and should be removed , but also shows, through the clerestory side , which is just force-fitted, the soldered spacer. Easily de-soldered and moved, but I wish I'd known in the first place. I hope the photo shows what I mean.

 

I also hope I'm not trying to teach Granny to suck eggs here. I am truly grateful for the advice I get, and hope my efforts encourage others to "have a go"

 

John

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22 hours ago, micklner said:

This might help with the layout . Not my model the photo found on a search . I have my D&S D18 in the pending pile and can take a picture of the D&S Box cover if needed. I am pleased to say my Worsley Clerestory roofs are now paid for, and await the  etchers who have reopened.

 

1638173317_1nerbrake3rd*****.jpg.8784f69a0447d35ec39694869022a396.jpg

 

 

That's exactly how I do it... 

 

NER clerestorys sit on top of the roof and I found the best way with D&S is captive bolts in the clerestory pulling it all down to a cross member under the eaves.

 

This nearly finished one, not built by me shows how it works. The roof is 20thou plasticard. The clerestory roof will be glued on top later (It needs to be white).

 

20200506_110500_copy_1600x1534.jpg.a7d5c7d428df96ed7ea21d6af4b20b69.jpg

 

20200506_110438_copy_1600x1351.jpg.520f9e882ed40d24728731980aeb4fb0.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Worsdell forever said:

 

That's exactly how I do it... 

 

NER clerestorys sit on top of the roof and I found the best way with D&S is captive bolts in the clerestory pulling it all down to a cross member under the eaves.

 

This nearly finished one, not built by me shows how it works. The roof is 20thou plasticard. The clerestory roof will be glued on top later (It needs to be white).

 

20200506_110500_copy_1600x1534.jpg.a7d5c7d428df96ed7ea21d6af4b20b69.jpg

 

20200506_110438_copy_1600x1351.jpg.520f9e882ed40d24728731980aeb4fb0.jpg

This is the method I have used for my D&S Clerestories.

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Posted (edited)

I'll try that method on a D&S kit when the opportunity arises, so thanks for the photos.

In the meantime, on the Worsley version, there isn't a tab/fold along the top of the roof-though I know some solder scrap etch there. Also, unlike the D&S kits, the roof has a gap down the centre, rather than the solid piece in the photos above.

 

I have done a little more work. 4 of 6 spacers are soldered to the main roof, and the second valance fitted to the floor. Some hinges and door furniture have been added - I hate that job. The slots for the hinges are in the etched sides, but there are no pre-drilled holes for the door handles/handrail. As Jonathan says, all this would have been easier done when the sides were flat.

 

There are some door ventilator louvres on the etch. At least, that is what I thought they were, but I actually think they are for the clerestory sides. The ones on the coach body are incorporated in the etch.

 

One thing not supplied are the guards dockets, so I need to try to source either an etched or whitemetal version of those. Can anyone point me to a source?

 

I

IMG_20200507_105809.jpg

Edited by rowanj
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Isinglass 3D bogies fitted and nuts soldered in place to keep the body and underframe together. I always struggle to keep nuts free of solder, so tried a tip I read of running oil - I use WAHL Clipper Oil for most general use (including Lockdown hair cuts, when my wife tells me I need my hair cut badly  (the old jokes are the best) and she duly obliges), and found it worked well.

 

This is what my NER rake will look like, but, unfortunately, thanks to Andrew (Headstock) , I have caught the bug, so others will hopefully follow.

 

Mick, I'll take up your offer of a photo of the Dia 18  D&S box, as an additional reference point, with many thanks in advance,

 

John

IMG_20200510_095637.jpg

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Got this one as well if any use.463225322_NERD742ftNon-CorridorClerestoryComposite.jpg.7b4316e2c7807c7c3f8ef3384ac50463.jpg

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22 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Got this one as well if any use.

Thanks, Rich. I'm very light on suitable drawings and photos of ex-NER Clerestory vehicles, so these are helpful'

The kit I'm building is a Dia 76, 4- Compartment Brake 3rd. I don't know if Dan produced a kit, but these scans give a good idea of the general layout of things like vents and clerestory roof louvres..

John

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Posted (edited)

Confusingly, his catalogue says DS187 is a D76 - but this picture from Hattons the box says D77!

 

DS187_3502989_Qty1_1.jpg

 

So... not sure! I suspect it's a typo on the catalogue as the picture shows a 5 compartment design.

Edited by Bucoops

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Dan did the 3 and 5 compartment brakes, but I don't believe he did the 4. 

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1 hour ago, rowanj said:

 

 unfortunately, thanks to Andrew (Headstock) , I have caught the bug,

 

IMG_20200510_095637.jpg

 

Holy moly, transmission by internet. That's fourteen days in quarantine for you.

 

P.S. I may have a spare NER ducket in stock, I shall have a look.

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I would need all 14 days and the rest to finish the clerestory, Andrew.

 

Re the Isinglass 6 -Compartment Brake, I was disappointed, though not devastated, to find that they were generally found on Marylebone high-density services, many miles from Tyneside. However, while looking through books to research the clerestory coach, I came across this photo, taken in 1958 at Selby. Is the leading coach the Droid I was looking for?  I know York isn't Newcastle, but at least it's NE Region.

EPSON001.JPG

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G'Day Folks

 

With all these 'older' coaches taking to the tracks, do I see a LNER layout taking shape ???????

 

manna

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, rowanj said:

I would need all 14 days and the rest to finish the clerestory, Andrew.

 

Re the Isinglass 6 -Compartment Brake, I was disappointed, though not devastated, to find that they were generally found on Marylebone high-density services, many miles from Tyneside. However, while looking through books to research the clerestory coach, I came across this photo, taken in 1958 at Selby. Is the leading coach the Droid I was looking for?  I know York isn't Newcastle, but at least it's NE Region.

 

 

Good morning John,


A great photo. I can't find the post right now, or maybe it was a PM? I mentioned that I had a late period CWN (Carriage Working Notice) for the NER West ridding district. The ordinary passenger trains were chock a bloc with BT (6) in their formations. Unfortunately, late period CWN's don't always contain the wealth of information that allows you to work out carriage types. However, I thought it likely that a good proportion of the BT (6) were of Gresley design.  Your photo would seem to confirm this, it's also great for your modelling.


As for the deployment of BT (6) to Marylebone suburban services, this information may have been of value in the 1930s, but not relevant in the late fifties. Railway modellers do have a habit of gleaning a bit of information from one era and transferring it to another. There is no doubt, that over a period of twenty years, the Marylebone suburban services evolved and changed considerably. People talk about transition era modelling, in reality the railways were in a constant state of transition in many respects.

Edited by Headstock

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35 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning John,


A great photo. I can't find the post right now, or maybe it was a PM? I mentioned that I had a late period CWN (Carriage Working Notice) for the NER West ridding district. The ordinary passenger trains were chock a bloc with BT (6) in their formations. Unfortunately, late period CWN's don't always contain the wealth of information that allows you to work out carriage types. However, I thought it likely that a good proportion of the BT (6) were of Gresley design.  Your photo would seem to confirm this, it's also great for your modelling.


As for the deployment of BT (6) to Marylebone suburban services, this information may have been of value in the 1930s, but not relevant in the late fifties. Railway modellers do have a habit of gleaning a bit of information from one era and transferring it to another. There is no doubt, that over a period of twenty years, the Marylebone suburban services evolved and changed considerably. People talk about transition era modelling, in reality the railways were in a constant state of transition in many respects.

Hi Andrew- always good to get a post from you.

 

As I understand it (from Harris), the Gresley 6 compartment coaches are 1937-38 vintage - so quite late, and only 18 were built. The reference to Marylebone comes from the annotation to the Isinglass drawing, and I know nothing about subsequent dispersal, (not that there were many to disperse). But I am as satisfied as I can be that the coach in the photo is the same as the model, and given the 1958 date, I wonder if dispersal occurred as DMU's began to be used intensively on high-density suburban services? The coaches would only be 20 years old or so- quite modern in real terms.

 

Either way, it gives me a bit more legitimacy to run it on the layout.

 

John

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John, if your Harris gives the numbers then you can tell where they were allocated.   Until 1946, stock was numbered by Area  - anything beginning '1' was ECJS, '2' was the North East, 4 the ex-GNR, etc.

 

Marylebone stock would have been numbered into the GC series, beginning '5' and north eastern stock would have started '2'.

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45 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

John, if your Harris gives the numbers then you can tell where they were allocated.   Until 1946, stock was numbered by Area  - anything beginning '1' was ECJS, '2' was the North East, 4 the ex-GNR, etc.

 

Marylebone stock would have been numbered into the GC series, beginning '5' and north eastern stock would have started '2'.

 

I've used this for working out what diagrams are suitable for me - area 6 being "my" area.

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1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

John, if your Harris gives the numbers then you can tell where they were allocated.   Until 1946, stock was numbered by Area  - anything beginning '1' was ECJS, '2' was the North East, 4 the ex-GNR, etc.

 

Marylebone stock would have been numbered into the GC series, beginning '5' and north eastern stock would have started '2'.

Jonathan.

The running numbers of the 1937 batch were 52303-18. and, for the 1938 coaches,57300-03, thus confirming the initial GC allocation. These would have changed after 1943, when 3rd Brakes were in the 16000-17112 range, I don't know what number these particular coaches got, and therefore what the BR number should be. I used an 5 prefix, but can alter it if needed.

John

 

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15 minutes ago, rowanj said:

Jonathan.

The running numbers of the 1937 batch were 52303-18. and, for the 1938 coaches,57300-03, thus confirming the initial GC allocation. These would have changed after 1943, when 3rd Brakes were in the 16000-17112 range, I don't know what number these particular coaches got, and therefore what the BR number should be. I used an 5 prefix, but can alter it if needed.

John

 

 

Afternoon John,

 

they were renumbered  as 86838 - 53 and 86854 - 7. Third brakes were in the 86000 - 87483 range according to Harris. 16000 - 17112 were allocated to gangway passenger brake thirds.

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Work has continued on the body shell, and bogies are fitted, A quick test run shows good running on curves and through pointwork. The roof is only tack-soldered at this stage, Buffers are on order from Dave Franks, and lighting conduit from Comet/Wizard. 

The next one I do will be better,

IMG_20200513_182731.jpg

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On 11/05/2020 at 00:17, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

With all these 'older' coaches taking to the tracks, do I see a LNER layout taking shape ???????

 

manna

Do you mean like this, Manna? I'm afraid not - this is the only LNER loco I have, and it will soon lose its' LNER tender to be replaced by a spare ex-NER one from a DJH D20, and become a J39/3 - Ihave a photo of the loco shunting at Chester-le Street.

 

But in the meantime, it sits in the sidings at the head of the ex-NER rake.

 

The Clerestory still needs some added detail - mainly buffers and an interior, and only the side in the photo is glazed. My main problem with the kit was lack of information on the prototype, and unfamiliarity with building a clerestory roof. Anyone who doesn't suffer from those complaints should have no problem with the Worsley etches, and may actually find the roof easier than the D&S plastic versions. I'll certainly get the all 3rd when things get back to normal. In the meantime, the J39 will provide some lighter relief,

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G'Day Folks

 

Nothing wrong in running a vintage train, I run from 1920 to 1970. I even have a GNR Ivatt single.

 

manna

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I'm planning on having a GER train on my LNER layout (one day...) - I already have a GER livery N7 and a small stack of 4 and 6 wheel coach kits that would have been withdrawn before my "normal" date. I look at it in the way that the LNER did a re-creation of the earlier Flying Scotsman with refurbished 6 wheelers and the Stirling single.

 

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The Clerestory almost completed. The LNER Brown is Precision Track Dirt, and, over Halfords Red Primer, gives a suitably faded look, I think. The compartment interior is simply cut and shut from an old Hornby, (or possibly even Triang) CK, overlaid with printouts from a Bill Bedford/Mousa download. I doubt it is prototypical, but gives a decent impression of something happening inside.

 

I see a couple of spots where the solder between roof and sides has come away, so I'll add a small spot of filler and touch it up.

 

I built the coach without the central footboard, most of which seemed to have been removed by the LNER. Again, whether this is correct I'm not certain.

 

At the moment, I'll not add transfers, in the hope that a photo in early BR days turned up, assuming the coaches lasted that long. I wondered about using LNER numerals with an added E. 

 

I have a D&S Dia 171 6-wheel Luggage/Milk van in the pile. Unless other kits turn up, this will complete the rake. A batch went on Ebay a couple of weeks ago for quite a bit of money, and I don't need any more at that price,

 

 

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