Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[rowanj]

Wow, that was quick.

For us novices, how do you form the bends, and where not be etch lines do you place the 'bending bars'?

I don't have bending bars though if I carry on with this malarkey I may have to invest. But in this case, the half etch lines are so well defined that they were easily formed by finger pressure. I did use a vice to bend the valances in case I made a bend where the slots are for the tank sides.

As an aside, I did run a file very lightly over the tank etch slots but made sure they are still a tight fit to the footplate, as suggested by Mike(Meg) in an earlier post.

Edited January 13, 2016 by rowanj

[jwealleans]

You won't have a problem with any of Arthur's kits. They're an absolute pleasure to build. As you've already shown, they fit well enough to more or less be assembled with just the tabs and slots, well before you have to commit yourself with the iron.

[ArthurK]

Wow, that was quick.

For us novices, how do you form the bends, and where not be etch lines do you place the 'bending bars'?

 

 

With a few exceptions I rarely use bending bars with my kits. The only time that I find that I find these necessary are on footplate angles of 1mm (3" full scale). Two mm angles (6" full scale) may also require the use of bending bars if there are slots close by. The J77 has angles 8" deep (2.67mm in model terms). These can bent without bars but the use of a vice can be helpful near the tank slots.

 

The body etches require little more than finger pressure. Hold one side of the bend on a flat surface and ease the other upwards with the fingers or a 6" rule. Short bends such as those on the tank front are made only with the fingers. All tank bends are right angles.

 

As an aside bending bars are easy to make. Angles of about 1/2" to 3/4" (B&Q) clamped together and drilled (4BA or thereabouts. Drill both (tapping diameter for the chosen bolts) then tap one side with clearance on the other. Bolt together and the job is done. Length in OO 12" for coaches 6" to 9" for most locos. Clamp the etch along its bend line between the angles, hold in a vice if possible and push the whole length over with a steel rule.

 

ArthurK 

Edited January 13, 2016 by ArthurK

[Pebbles]

Sorry to intrude, but have you bent the sides of the J77 the wrong way? Generally the half etch would be on the inside rather than the outside of a bend unless otherwise indicated.

[rowanj]

Sorry to intrude, but have you bent the sides of the J77 the wrong way? Generally the half etch would be on the inside rather than the

outside of a bend unless otherwise indicated.

I certainly have but luckily it was spotted before soldering and corrected without breaking the etches.

Too cold for either the garage or loft today, but I have soldered and cleaned up the footplate, and fixed the tank sides to the footplate, having previously filled them with lead to add much needed weight. I think this was a tip on Mike.s build.The framing around the windows have also been added. None of this is worth a photo.

The motor/ gearbox combo is giving me pause.Arthur recommends a High-level Roadrunner, which is fine but I'm unsure what motor to fit. Any suggestions?

 

Arthur produced cab doors for this kit, but the few photos I can find suggest they were usually left open. It also seems a shame to hide the excellent range of cab detail in the kit so I'm inclined to leave them off. Is this sensible? Also, since Mike did his trial build, I understand all Arthur,s kits now have the boiler already rolled, which is a big advantage for me.

John

Edited January 14, 2016 by rowanj

[46256]

John easy mistake to make...becomes serious when you snap the piece on bending it back the correct way.........glad I've just reread this prescriptive text had it " bedding it back....."....I know this hobby is supposed to be fun but.....

[micklner]

Arthur Kimber's North Eastern Kits J77 arrived. As Mike already has a thread on building these kits, I'll restrict my posts to anything which, as a beginner, may leave me scratching my head, and therefore be useful to others at a similar point in the learning curve.

 

I should say at the outset that dealing with Arthur has been a pleasure. His kits have a great reputation and first glance at the contents suggest it's well deserved. The instructions are very comprehensive. My kit is the Darlington re-build with the J72 -style Worsdell cab, Strangely, most good photos are of the earlier Fletcher-cab rebuilds from York, but I have tracked down a couple of the Worsdell version. I'll probably model the same loco as Mike, which moved to North Blyth after leaving Starbeck.

 

Getting a decent footplate will be important. The kit's footplate is in 2 pieces, the top being detailed and pretty flimsy. The lower piece is sturdier, being made of thicker metal, though neither are as thick as PDK. This should make soldering easier. The kit instructions suggest using the cab etch and lamp irons to ensure squareness and correct alignment of the slots . However Arthur helpfully attached a note suggesting using 8ba bolts through the chassis retention holes, as well as a recommended soldering technique. I used both methods, and the photos show the footplate assembly prior to soldering. But just to show my total incompetence, I made the folds incorrectly on the tanks - the half-etches should be on the inside.  However I was alerted in time and managed to correct it without breaking any joint. Thanks, Arthur.

 

The bottom piece needs 4 folds, 2 of which are the buffer beams and the others form the valences. This certainly makes for an easy life,

You have some ripples in the footplate. These need to be smoothed before soldering either by smoothing using a steel rule to check the etch, another  possibility is to enlarge the mounting holes slightly as that maybe causing the ripples as the holes are too tight.

[ArthurK]

All the kits that I have built (I have lost count of the number) use the convention of bending with the etched line inside At least one kit that I have built got at least one bend wrong . With the etched line inside we achieve a sharp corner to the outside of the bend. Bending the other way leaves a hollow on the corner which is very noticeable. Also most kit manufacturers allow for the bend when designing the artwork so that the fit of parts is  compromised if bent the wrong way. A simple example of this is a simple double bend to form a square cornered 'U' shaped piece. The width of the 'U' is greater than the distance between the two etched lines. This must be allowed for to obtain an accurate build.

 

There are some occasions when the bend line is on the outside.This is most common when a part is bent over upon itself by 180 degrees. In my own kits this occurs on the brake hangers of both loco and tender. All that is required is a touch of solder then a clean-up with a file. With my loco brakes there two such bends. The first folds the hanger over from the top to give a double layer. The second brings the brake-shoe detail to the front.

 

ArthurK

Edited January 14, 2016 by ArthurK

[rowanj]

Another set of photos showing progress to date. The main work has been done to the cab and tanks, though as usual, photos show where more tidying is required. The last 2 photos  have the cab roof, boiler and bunker rear posed to check squareness and for my own amusement, There are still parts of the cab interior to work on, which will then be hidden when the roof is in place, Having said that, the roof is designed to drop in place and be removable so its certainly worth the effort, as well as being character-building. Not being able to find decent shots of a relevant cab interior has also been a problem.

I wont add too much more detail before beginning the chassis carcase to check clearances, etc. My chassis will be rigid, in 00.Im using Gibson wheels for the first time, all insulated, and on such a small wheelbase with a chassis with lots of detail- brakes, rodding, etc - I'm a bit nervous about having clearances for pick-ups, but its obviously do-able.

[rowanj]

At first glance, after a Comet or PDK chassis, the J77 seems complex, but it is so well designed that it goes together really easily, and adds lots of lovely detail.. The slots and tabs are very accurate, though I did use Comet chassis jigs as a "belt and braces". The wheels are Markits. I intend to use Gibsons which are force-fit on the axles, but the Markits are better at this stage while they will be put on and taken off several times during the rest of the build. They are a touch tight against the chassis bearings so I'll need to file the bearings down a little.

The body has had a few more bits of detail added. It's starting to look like a J77.

[mikemeg]

It is good practice to leave the fitting of white metal castings till the end of the build to avoid damaging them when soldering in larger assemblies i.e. the boiler and smokebox. That is why the instructions are sequenced as they are i.e. assemble the locomotive superstructure, then add the etched detail parts, handrails, etc. and finally add the white metal castings.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[rowanj]

The whitemetal stuff is just "posed", Mike. I also fabricated a new regulator as the casting pinged away into oblivion.

[rowanj]

Tomorrow's problem is fitting the smokebox. The principle seems fine but I'm puzzled by the brass ring cast on the boiler, which I assumed was where the smokebox joined, but it seems too far back,.and too far forward to represent a boiler band. The photo above shows the ring in question.

[micklner]

Look here 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/90126-building-the-lner-j77-worsdell-cab-fletcher-cab/

 

No idea if the version you are building had the " ring " It sits in the rear of the Smokebox if yes.

[rowanj]

Look here 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/90126-building-the-lner-j77-worsdell-cab-fletcher-cab/

 

No idea if the version you are building had the " ring " It sits in the rear of the Smokebox if yes.

This thread is my "bible", Mick, but the builds were done before Arthur produced the rolled boiler, You can see that the boiler end correctly reaches the point where it joins the smokebox so the cast ring is a bit of a mystery., but one for tomorrow.

[Worsdell forever]

Is the ring fixed to the boiler or will it slide up to the smokebox after it's been fitted?

[rowanj]

Is the ring fixed to the boiler or will it slide up to the smokebox after it's been fitted?

Simple when it's pointed out. The ring was so tight that I assumed it was an integral part of the boiler, but some hot water, soap and judicious finger pressure released it, and I now see how it all works. The design of this kit is really good.. Thanks, Paul.

[ArthurK]

Simple when it's pointed out. The ring was so tight that I assumed it was an integral part of the boiler, but some hot water, soap and judicious finger pressure released it, and I now see how it all works. The design of this kit is really good.. Thanks, Paul.

 

Yes the ring is a tight fit as intended. Check that the length is correct and doesn't overlap at the bottom. Trim if necessary. Push it forward to the very front of the boiler. No need for clever stuff here it will move it it is pushed hard enough. Solder flush with the boiler front. Part  of the ring will disappear into the smokebox wrapper.

 

ArthurK

[rowanj]

It looks as though I'm going to have a J77 at the end of this exercise after all. The boiler/ smokebox has still to be soldered to the footplate/ cab. In fact , the join is so tight I'm wondering whether to bother, as it may be useful for any later work, and certainly while handrails. etc are fitted. The chimney and dome are just posed, as is the cab roof..

Edited January 22, 2016 by rowanj

[rowanj]

Here is the chassis, a much more detailed affair than my PDK affair, but I've finished up with a nice level platform, now awaiting the arrival of motor and gearbox. The Gibson wheels are a first for me. I normally use Markits, but decided to try for the NER prototype, They are push-fit on the axle, and there are tales on the internet of wheel-wobble, problems with quartering, and shifting on the axle, so I'll leave it as long as possible before fitting  the other side, The pick-ups are also to be assembled and this looks really tricky, made more so by the fact that Gibson wheels are insulated which means pickups to all 6, and the ashpan, which is a nice addition to the look of the chassis, sits more or less where a PCB would fit for the pickups on the rear pair of wheels

 

I know I've made a couple of errors assembling the brakes, and as a consequence, lost a bit of detail. On TW's thread recently, there has been a bit of discussion about poorly made models being thrown away, etc and folk giving up. I couldn't disagree more, Even with the errors, I'm confident that I'll finish up with a decent working loco, and that my next one will be better, As long as I continue to enjoy the exercise , I'll keep going

Edited January 26, 2016 by rowanj

[rowanj]

The suggested method of fitting pickups is Alan Gibson style plungers but,at this stage, that's a bit beyond my ken. However research turned up the Backscratchers method designed by Mike Trice where phosphor bronze tags drop from over the chassis sides. In my case, the front wheels will need to be Bottom scratchers as there are piston rods where PCB would otherwise be Araldited to the chassis sides, to which the phosphor strip will be soldered.

I'll add a photo if it works.

Edited January 27, 2016 by rowanj

[DLT]

I would recommend avoiding plunger pickups if at all possible.  They have to be installed before the wheels are fitted, and are then inaccessible so you can't adjust the pressure.  My experience is that they can also seize up and act as very efficient brakes!

 

Springy nickel-silver wire wipers in the back of the wheels are usually my first choice.  However when brakegear and etched spring detail obstruct them, then Backscratchers really come into their own.

 

There are three etched chassis fitted with Backscratchers on page one of my Workbench, here:  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/2359-dlts-sr-locos-e1r-class-by-sef-revisited/

 

All the best,

Dave.

[DougN]

Rowan,  Can I suggest back scratchers from Phospher bronze wire. I am sorry I can't say what gauge. The method I use to produce the back scratchers is as follows. 

 

Place a cut across a 2mm axle about 2mm down across the diameter using a pieceing saw. This produces the jig. 

 

Place about 4 to 5 mm of wire in the jig (leaving the wire over length) . Then wrap around the axle with the rest of the wire up to 2 times around the axle, then leaving a tail of about 10mm to be trimmed later. 

 

This produces a nice spring that can be adjusted for pressure, height and length. This can scratch the top or side of the wheel. 

 

if you want to see one I would have to dig up these at home! 

[Horsetan]

Rowan,  Can I suggest back scratchers from Phospher bronze wire. I am sorry I can't say what gauge. ....

30 to 33swg should work.

[Worsdell forever]

I use DG couplings so I have a good supply of spare phosphor bronze wire, it's about 0.4 - 0.5mm.