Bachmann/Hornby Rat Sandwich

[Kylestrome]

With all the excitement over the SLW Class 24, and speculation on the possibility of a future Class 25, this project might be now be regarded as a bit irrelevant. However, not all of us have the ready cash or the patience to wait for RTR models to appear on the market. Some of us also like a bit of a modelling challenge, which is why I have just been cutting up a reasonably decent model to, hopefully, make a better one.

 

I had already expended quite a bit of effort on the Bachmann model but, try as I might, I just could not ignore the flat curve of the cab roof. It was obvious that I would have to modify a Hornby 25 but I wasn’t keen on  loosing all my work, and what I still considered to be the ‘good bits’ of the Bachmann ’25.

 

 

This is the Bachmann model before I got out the piercing saw

 

 

 

After much comparison and measuring I decided to take drastic action, as you can see here.

 

Surprisingly, considering these models are from different eras and manufacturers, they fit together really well. Obviously a lot of care has to be taken to sand down the joints to fit but using truly square sanding blocks makes the job easier. 

 

So far I have done one end to prove to myself that it is possible and the second is going much quicker with the knowledge that everything will fit together. I’m probably not the first person to do this but I haven’t found any reference to anything similar on the web.

 

 

 

 

 

The Hornby cab has had the centre window enlarged downwards and the original marker lights drilled out and filled with Squadron White putty

 

 

Here the cab fronts are being extended downwards using 1.5mm wide Evergreen styrene strip

 

David

Edited April 13, 2017 by Kylestrome

[edcayton]

Love the idea of a rat sandwich! Is it possible to take a photo of the two cabs together so the difference is more obvious to the non-rat-fanciers among us please? You are doing a remarkably neat job.

 

Ed

[number6]

Given how old the Hornby 25 is now its easy to forget that it was probably the first [tiny] leap forward in terms of D&E models back then [1978?]. Once lowered on its bogies it is much preferred it to the Bachmann model and have always put down the affection for the Bach one on its motor and twin bogie power - which is streets ahead - but its cabs are woeful. Yes some have done this before but nice to see more 'proper' sharp implement modelling going on!

[Kylestrome]

Love the idea of a rat sandwich! Is it possible to take a photo of the two cabs together so the difference is more obvious to the non-rat-fanciers among us please? You are doing a remarkably neat job.

 

Ed

 

Thanks.

 

Here is a comparison shot (Hornby on the left).

 

 

 

David

Edited February 24, 2017 by Kylestrome

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Ooh. this is prompting thoughts of a technique for a Ped-I-Cure. There must be much measuring.

[Phil Copleston]

Here is a comparison shot (Hornby on the left).

 

Mr Smiley knows which end looks more like a real Rat...  

[tamperman36]

Looking good, what livery will you be finishing it in.

[Kylestrome]

Looking good, what livery will you be finishing it in.

 

The same as it was before I started chopping it about (see the first photo). I might change the number to 25076 or 25239 both of which I have photos of on the West Highland.

[Downendian]

Great stuff and impressive cutting Kylestrome. I've beheaded a Bachmann 24 and in the process of grafting on the Hornby cabs in a 24/1 build. Of course the Bachmann 25 has the side grilles incorrectly proud of the bodywork for a 25/1, and thus useful for a Hornby replacement where they are flush, and thus incorrect for a 24/1. My cuts are behind the doors, and I must say your cuts look a better position as I'm almost certainly going to replace the strip of rivets by the boiler room,

Could you show us the under frame as I see you've removed the fictitious solebar. I presume you've used the same method as described by Jim Smith-Wright? That mod makes a huge difference to the look of the model.

Neil

[Fat Controller]

Given how old the Hornby 25 is now its easy to forget that it was probably the first [tiny] leap forward in terms of D&E models back then [1978?]. Once lowered on its bogies it is much preferred it to the Bachmann model and have always put down the affection for the Bach one on its motor and twin bogie power - which is streets ahead - but its cabs are woeful. Yes some have done this before but nice to see more 'proper' sharp implement modelling going on!

1976, I think- I bought mine from the model shop in Gloucester Road, Bristol, when I lived almost opposite, which would be from summer 1975 to summer 1976. Still got it- your work has inspired me to revive it.

[Kylestrome]

Could you show us the under frame as I see you've removed the fictitious solebar. I presume you've used the same method as described by Jim Smith-Wright? That mod makes a huge difference to the look of the model.

Neil

 

Yes, the Jim Smith-Wright article in Update was very useful. The photos don't show an awful lot but they might still be of interest.

 

The chassis has a big chunk milled out under the roof fan to provide space for my homemade bass-reflex speaker box. All the underframe bits and pieces have been cobbled together from styrene sheet and copper wire, and it runs on P4 Kean Maygib wheels.

 

 

 

 

 

David

Edited February 24, 2017 by Kylestrome

[Daddyman]

Your conversion is very neat, wonderful work, but the original model at the top of the page was so good I wonder if it was worth it (that's a compliment!). It seems to me that simply removing the solebars under the cab from the Bachmann model has the effect of fooling the eye that the front end is correct. 

 

One way of doing this job I considered was simply changing the curve of the gutter over the cab front windows, and then reshaping the windows upwards. After all, you're reshaping one window anyway. You could even use the Hornby windows as a template. And there would be no need to for the nerve-wracking sawing off of cabs, or to replace the marker lights. Just a thought - I don't know if it would work. 

[Kylestrome]

On 14/12/2015 at 08:57, Daddyman said:

One way of doing this job I considered was simply changing the curve of the gutter over the cab front windows, and then reshaping the windows upwards. After all, you're reshaping one window anyway. You could even use the Hornby windows as a template. And there would be no need to for the nerve-wracking sawing off of cabs, or to replace the marker lights. Just a thought - I don't know if it would work. 

 

If only it were that easy (?) !

 

It was only nerve-racking before I knew for sure that everything would fit. Once I was confident of that it was the usual process of 'cut and shut'. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Kylestrome

[mike knowles]

I've recently done a 25/3 in similar fashion but using silver Fox cabs. All sat on (the superb) Penbits sprung bogies. Grateful thanks to J-S-W for the initial inspiration/ideas.

[CloggyDog]

Having done a 25/3 cut n shut (Bachmann cab fronts inserted into Hornby cabs attached to a Bachmann centre, which all works well) I did make a start on something similar for a 25/1 (Bachmann cab fronts into a Hornby 25) , but found a slight disparity between the Bachmann and Hornby corridor profiles (even though I'm doing a sealed front).

 

So while the tail lamps are right, there's something not quite right further up. I'll see if I can dig it out when I get home and post a pic or two.

[andyman7]

Given how old the Hornby 25 is now its easy to forget that it was probably the first [tiny] leap forward in terms of D&E models back then [1978?]. Once lowered on its bogies it is much preferred it to the Bachmann model and have always put down the affection for the Bach one on its motor and twin bogie power - which is streets ahead - but its cabs are woeful. Yes some have done this before but nice to see more 'proper' sharp implement modelling going on!

 

1976, I think- I bought mine from the model shop in Gloucester Road, Bristol, when I lived almost opposite, which would be from summer 1975 to summer 1976. Still got it- your work has inspired me to revive it.

This is like one of those 'guess the year' pop quizzes. In actual fact it was 1977, the Rat was the all-new replacement for the ex-Triang Brush Type 2 which was deleted at the end of 1976 due to worn tooling. It was also the first all new model to be constructed around the second type Ringfield motor, with all connections made using tags so that the whole final assembly just plugged together - no screws!

Going slightly OT, it's  shame that after making such a nice job of the 25, they then produced for 1978 the strange mongrel they called a class 29....

Edited December 14, 2015 by andyman7

[number6]

Less said about the 29 the better. I have a feeling that the images in the catalogue for the 25 that year were mockups and not the actual model. Possibly even an MTK kit? 

[Kylestrome]

For Downendian here some more shots of the underframe. I had to search for them and couldn't believe it's already 5 years since I did the first modifications.

 

And here is the link to the Jim S-W article (I can't take all the credit  ) : 

http://www.p4newstreet.com/articlePDFs/25%20article.pdf

 

If there is any interest, I have also found photos of the body mods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

David

Edited February 24, 2017 by Kylestrome

[Downendian]

Terrific thanks Kylestrome, hitting the thanks button just wasn't enough. I was going to ask re the tanks and had mistakenly assumed they were brassmasters resin mouldings.

Terrific modelling.

Neil

[drgj]

really excellent work, Kylestrome. On my Hornby 25 to 24 with Bachmann chassis I enlarged the centre front windows slightly downwards and raised the gangway slightly, too. This would also make the original 25 look better. I also moved the side cab windows back to give more wrap round to the yellow panel on the 24 and 25/3 which you can see in my threads. My chassis details weren't nearly as good as yours on either of my locos!

 

Dave

Edited December 14, 2015 by drgj

[Phil Copleston]

Having done a 25/3 cut n shut (Bachmann cab fronts inserted into Hornby cabs attached to a Bachmann centre, which all works well) I did make a start on something similar for a 25/1 (Bachmann cab fronts into a Hornby 25) , but found a slight disparity between the Bachmann and Hornby corridor profiles (even though I'm doing a sealed front).

 

Errr.... don't you mean a Bachmann centre attached to Hornby cabs? After all, it's the Bachmann cabs which look wrong due to the incorrect cab side-splay which makes their end roof profile too 'flat', which is why David (Kylestrome) is doing it his way round! 

Edited December 15, 2015 by Phil Copleston

[Waveydavey]

It's the lower part of the Bachmann cab front that Alan is talking about grafting into the Hornby cabs for a 25/1.

 

What you then do with the Hornby cabs is up to you. I'm a bit rusty on the subject but I think I remember that the Bachmann 25/1 centre section has raised grill surrounds that are only really suitable for 24s and 25/0s whereas the Hornby centre is closer to what the 25/1s had.

 

Cheers

 

David

[Kylestrome]

It's the lower part of the Bachmann cab front that Alan is talking about grafting into the Hornby cabs for a 25/1.

 

What you then do with the Hornby cabs is up to you. I'm a bit rusty on the subject but I think I remember that the Bachmann 25/1 centre section has raised grill surrounds that are only really suitable for 24s and 25/0s whereas the Hornby centre is closer to what the 25/1s had.

 

Cheers

 

David

I'm glad you mentioned that , but one thing I've never liked about the Hornby side grills is that they are the wrong shape! The corners are much too square.

 

Which leads very neatly into my next bit of drastic action on the Bachmann 'meat in the sandwich'. Watch this space ...

 

 

 

 

 

David

Edited February 24, 2017 by Kylestrome

[drgj]

I didn't worry too much about the grilles on my 24 even though they are the 25 type. I think the improvement I made to the cab ends was satisfying enough to make other details seem less important! I have to say that large etched  grille looks very good on your 25.

 

What I noticed after seeing the new ready to run 24 is that the roof domes above the cabs on my Hornby derived 24 and 25/3  aren't high enough. I suppose that the whole roof must be a bit low. The Bachmann dome is about the right height but, as you mentioned, the curve on the top of the front windows is a bit  flat.  The Bachmann locos actually  have a nice solid look about them.

 

Am very much liking your work here and am looking forward to seeing what you do with the rest of the grilles.

Dave

Edited December 15, 2015 by drgj

[Ian p]

Looking at the last pics you posted it looks like you've replaced the radiator  grill and added a bit of 3D. Could you show some pics of this area please.

 

 

Ian