RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted December 15, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Looking at the last pics you posted it looks like you've replaced the radiator grill and added a bit of 3D. Could you show some pics of this area please. Ian Here are some photos I took at the time I detailed the Bachmann body, including the large grill. Added roof details (before I made the hole in the exhaust) This shows an extra thickness of styrene sheet use to lift the roof vent a little higher (upper left) The large side grills were removed, an extra lip of black styrene inserted and the diagonal strut fitted. The new mesh is a part of a very finely etched, thin stainless steel sheet I bought many years ago. The finished result before painting. Here you can also see the extra hinges, which only seem to have been fitted to this side of the 25s in later years Lamp brackets bent up from scrap etch, drilled for a soldered on wire mounting pin Buffer beam detailing which, together with the cab interiors, are then fixed to the body David Edited February 24, 2017 by Kylestrome 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted December 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2015 I presume the hinged grilles were fitted when loco's were dual braked as air tanks were added down this side of the power unit so bodyside filters would have to be changed from the outside 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted December 16, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) It’s time to replace the Bachmann 'Class 24' side grills. Anticipating that I would be doing this job on the Hornby model, I had already had some etched by PPD on a sheet with a whole load of other bits and pieces. After choosing to use the Bachmann middle part I decided to use them anyway to see if they make an improvement. At the moment they look a little bit 'stuck on' but I'm hoping that everything will look more homogenous when the body is painted. We will see ... First off, a picture showing my method of fixing the grills. I was glueing them with CA so I had to get the positioning right at the first attempt. I achieved that with the help of a strip of masking tape to hold the grill while was lowered onto a puddle of CA. The hinged side grills have slots filed in them and the hinges are represented by small chunks of 0.5mm square Evergreen strip Now it's on with making the flush glazing so don't hold your breath waiting for an update. David Edited February 24, 2017 by Kylestrome 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) ... I had already had some etched by PPD on a sheet with a whole load of other bits and pieces. After choosing to use the Bachmann middle part I decided to use them anyway to see if they make an improvement. At the moment they look a little bit 'stuck on' but I'm hoping that everything will look more homogenous when the body is painted. We will see ... Are you going to market these? Regards Edited December 17, 2015 by PenrithBeacon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted December 17, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Are you going to market these? Regards That's unlikely, unless I get absolutely deluged with requests. Actually, I've just been drawing some revised artwork for the grills because I'm still not quite happy with the shape of them. They are just a little bit too rounded, which is the fault of following a published drawing and not a photo. You'd think I would have learned by now. David Edited February 24, 2017 by Kylestrome 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Richard_A Posted December 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2015 Well I should like a set or two should you ever decide to get some made up. It's the grills which are putting me off my silver fox bodyshell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Lovely bit of modelling Kyle. I like your approach to the side grilles, I was planning to detail a Hornby shell to go on a modified Bachmann chassis but the grilles always put me off. In the end the chassis went under the 25/3 which appears in this month's header photo so the project died. Edited December 18, 2015 by 37114 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I would see if people do want your etches as they do look quite nice. From small acorns etc.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted December 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2015 That's unlikely, unless I get absolutely deluged with requests. Actually, I've just been drawing some revised artwork for the grills because I'm still not quite happy with the shape of them. They are just a little bit too rounded, which is the fault of following a published drawing and not a photo. You'd think I would have learned by now. Once you're happy with them, I'd be interested in 3 sets for 25/1s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted December 18, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) I would see if people do want your etches as they do look quite nice. From small acorns etc.... At this stage I won't make any promises, but if people with a firm interest in having Class 25 small side grill etches would PM me, stating whether with hinge cut-outs or without, I might get back to you in the new year. The ones I have used here are etched from 0,25mm (10 thou.) nickel silver but I also want to try an etch in 0.2mm (8 thou.) NS, which would obviously be thinner but might not have enough relief. I'll keep you posted. David Edited February 24, 2017 by Kylestrome 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 It’s time to replace the Bachmann 'Class 24' side grills. Anticipating that I would be doing this job on the Hornby model, I had already had some etched by PPD on a sheet with a whole load of other bits and pieces. After choosing to use the Bachmann middle part I decided to use them anyway to see if they make an improvement. At the moment they look a little bit 'stuck on' but I'm hoping that everything will look more homogenous when the body is painted. We will see ... DSC01804.jpg First off, a picture showing my method of fixing the grills. I was glueing them with CA so I had to get the positioning right at the first attempt. I achieved that with the help of a strip of masking tape to hold the grill while was lowered onto a puddle of CA. DSC01806.jpg DSC01807.jpg DSC01809.jpg The hinged side grills have slots filed in them and the hinges are represented by small chunks of 0.5mm square Evergreen strip DSC01810.jpg Now it's on with making the flush glazing so don't hold your breath waiting for an update. Excellent work, however the hinges are on the left hand of the grills, the bit on the right is a securing strap and locating pin with another pin which goes through it to keep the grill shut. Al Taylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted December 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2015 Lovely precise work David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted December 20, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) On 20/12/2015 at 17:01, 45125 said: Excellent work, however the hinges are on the left hand of the grills, the bit on the right is a securing strap and locating pin with another pin which goes through it to keep the grill shut. Al Taylor. Al, Thanks for the info. It's always good to get the terminology right! Edited April 11, 2022 by Kylestrome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waveydavey Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 The grill etches look very nice but you have drawn 17 slats compared to 26 on the real thing. If you are looking to redraw them is there any chance you could try and squeeze a few more in to try and get as close to the right number as possible? I'd be interested in three or four sets if you can have a look into this. And saying as you are obviously keen on 25s have you considered drawing up the cab side windows for an etch? The Hornby body has this as a recess that is too far forward and the wrong size. If you've read Karl Crowther's article on doing a 25/3 in a recent MRJ you'll know what I'm talking about. One of the compromises you make with using the Bachmann cab doors is that they are too wide and make putting in a correctly sized cab side window a bit of a squeeze. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted December 21, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) The grill etches look very nice but you have drawn 17 slats compared to 26 on the real thing. If you are looking to redraw them is there any chance you could try and squeeze a few more in to try and get as close to the right number as possible? I'd be interested in three or four sets if you can have a look into this. And saying as you are obviously keen on 25s have you considered drawing up the cab side windows for an etch? The Hornby body has this as a recess that is too far forward and the wrong size. If you've read Karl Crowther's article on doing a 25/3 in a recent MRJ you'll know what I'm talking about. One of the compromises you make with using the Bachmann cab doors is that they are too wide and make putting in a correctly sized cab side window a bit of a squeeze. Cheers David You know, I'd completely forgotten about the MRJ article! Whether consciously or unconsciously I seem to have done most of the same things as Karl so far. Now that you've pointed out the cab side windows, I suppose I'll have to do something with them too. A window frame etch might well be a good idea. As for the small grills, one is a bit limited by what's possible as a half-etch. PPD is a little bit conservative with their recommendations, which I followed for my very first etch (the results of which you see above). For the next attempt I will push the number of slats up to 21, which is still a compromise to ensure that they etch to a decent depth. It will be more than Bachmann managed despite the fact that Hornby had long ago achieved a much finer grill on their '25. Edited December 21, 2015 by Kylestrome 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I too had completely forgotten about the MRJ article. Probably because I thought of the 25/3 as a mid 1960's rarity in the North East but photos now seem to give evidence to Tees and Tyne yards trying and hang on to them when they visited. They probably made a good alternative to the Claytons on the local pick ups? So with that in mind and a with a bit of inspiration from this thread I went off and dug this out of its tin. Started some 25 (maybe 30) years ago I suppose it's time I moved it on a bit. The last time it was powered, was probably about 15 years ago and I had to stop that session as I was worried about the health of those who witnessed it running. I kid yee not. I think it'll need to be a thick etch for the cab side window surround. I think I might have used 0.020" or 0.030" just to get the surround to stand prototypically proud. Pretty amazing that Hornby managed the correct number of slats in the grills in 1977, yet Bachmann & the new kid on the block goofed it years later. You could put me down for a couple of grill etches. Side windies too. I suppose I could always start it all over again. Anything has to be better than my Mk 1 attempt. P Ps. Just to prove to Waveydavey I do diesels, a Class 24 yesterday. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon br blue Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Tasty looking rat sandwich. Regarding the modified grills on the air-braked 25/1's- below is a picture of the grill and hinge. It also shows the extra bodyside hatch added on the side of the air-braked 25/1's. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waveydavey Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Hby25Medalling-010-Edit.jpg I think it'll need to be a thick etch for the cab side window surround. I think I might have used 0.020" or 0.030" just to get the surround to stand prototypically proud. Nice work Porcy. I think I've said above that the Hornby side window is slightly too far forward which is very obvious when you paint on a full yellow end. I think the best option with an etch would be to just do the cab side frame and dividing bar and leave the filling of the Hornby trench and window size adjustment to the modeller. 24s and 25/0s had a different cab side window from the later 25s due to the former having a drop window and the latter having slide windows. An etch for both types would be wonderful. I have measured quite a few bits of 25 lately so I'll post a few of my detail photos here to illustrate what I've been babbling on about when I have a little more spare time. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) Nice work Porcy. I think I've said above that the Hornby side window is slightly too far forward which is very obvious when you paint on a full yellow end. Luckily this is just a restoration project & it will be in green. I thought about moving the window back before putting in the insert. Then I thought nah. Maybe the next one? This pic illustrates the error quite well Birmingham New Street.1977 25263,25253,25274. by Stephen Burdett, on Flickr I have measured quite a few bits of 25 lately so I'll post a few of my detail photos here to illustrate what I've been babbling on about when I have a little more spare time. Have you got the width of the front connecting doors on a 24? P Edited December 29, 2015 by Porcy Mane 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted December 29, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 29, 2015 Birmingham New Street.1977 25263,25253,25274. by Stephen Burdett, on Flickr Thanks for pointing to a useful photo. It's strange how the two front locos are standing at different heights though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Thanks for pointing to a useful photo. It's strange how the two front locos are standing at different heights though. I've always had the impression that was quite common. More so on rolling stock. Dipped rail joints and all sorts of things like that caused differences in ride height. Probably if the locos had been photographed just a couple of feet either side of the position the were in; the effect could have been reversed. Although it's a kettle, this phot. should illustrate what I mean. Taken 9 seconds apart and about 10 yards distance travelled. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted December 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) This pic by Robert Peach recently popped up in a fb group and shows a subtly different finish where the yellow meets the side window, not noticed this on any other 24/25 and it is possibly only this window on 25241... The other end looks normal on other contemporaneous photos. Edited January 4, 2016 by CloggyDeux 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted December 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 29, 2015 Thanks for pointing to a useful photo. It's strange how the two front locos are standing at different heights though. Do an image search for 'Three to the Sea' railtour. The Railfreight livered 20 rode 2-3 inches higher than the green pair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Luckily this is just a restoration project & it will be in green. I thought about moving the window back before putting in the insert. Then I thought nah. Maybe the next one? This pic illustrates the error quite well Birmingham New Street.1977 25263,25253,25274. by Stephen Burdett, on Flickr Have you got the width of the front connecting doors on a 24? P I'm sorry but I disagree with what I think you are inferring as the 25 263 is consistently lower suggesting that smaller diameter axles have been fitted, with larger diameter axles probably fitted to aid traction (gearing). I have never been able to figure out what people are going on about the 25's as far as I can see if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Copleston Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I have never been able to figure out what people are going on about the 25's as far as I can see if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck. Erm... it's not a duck, it's a Rat! And there are a myriad of differences between the Rats of classes 25/0, 25/1, 25/2 and 25/3 and at different times in their careers. Though personally, I prefer the earlier Sulzer Type 2 'Yogis' - classes 24/0 and 24/1. Here's an excellent and comprehensive account: http://www.derbysulzers.com (paste in the link, not click) Edited December 31, 2015 by Phil Copleston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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