The ghost of Christmas Modular

[cromptonnut]

One thing I would say about Freemo is that although some of the contributors are RMWeb members, many (probably the majority?) aren't. I can understand your insurance reasoning, but it's very easy to forget that RMWeb by no means includes everyone in the hobby

 

Of course, which I was hoping that there'd be some outside of RMWeb promotion of a greater event that anyone could attend to.

 

If only we had some close contact with some of the modelling magazines that could promote the idea...

[PaulRhB]

Without the Exeter group the first RMweb Freemo USA meet wouldn't have been much larger than what you achieved. That's had the advantage of that initial boost and that is down to a small group building it up over time. Have a chat with CK and see if it would be viable to display a couple of modules at the SWAG meet? I know it's hard getting it going and it may take 2-3 years, that's why I wanted to join in. Maybe the answer is to hold another meet and write it up for BRM?

The whole modular concept got a bit thrown around over the fremo or not in the thread. Andy quite rightly chose a simpler format as it was easier to introduce people to the idea without needing to buy templates or follow detailed specs. Modular isn't established here and very few exhibit abroad so there's not a huge reason to follow a system established in Europe. It's not doing it just to be awkward it's following a very simple standard already proved here albeit with US models.

I have an idea for our 2017 show where we might be able to get the stage and have a small set up with displays about what it is. Problem is it's a two day show so people would need to make their own arrangements for accommodation as the budget doesn't stretch to lots of rooms. It would be a chance to show off the concept though and have fun running too. Ideas are at an early stage but I'm hoping we could get a few local members involved as a core layout to go ahead even without a wider group. I have the advantage there then that I could fill spare space with other stuff if it doesn't expand. Negotiating with the show organiser is step one

[Joseph_Pestell]

Greater population density perhaps but we did have one person travel down from Cumbria to be part of our meet, and one from Berkshire, so not strictly "SECAG" territory although I did make it clear that although we were doing it under our area group banner anyone willing to travel with a module, with a verifiable RMWeb identity (so as to remain 'a group of friends' rather than 'general public' for insurance purposes) was more than welcome to attend.

 

Distance isn't an object really and of course there's no reason that you couldn't have your own layout, with a converter board to the modular standards, to be part of a modular meetup.  As long as the height and the electrical standards of the main layout are compatible, and the converter board(s) meet the end standards at the outer ends, that's all that needs to be done - and a converter board may only be 2ft long straight track so no real expense or time needed to build.

 

No need to apologise for your circumstances - life often gets in the way of modelling...

 

I think that distance is a problem. If I drive 120 miles to an event (and back), that comes at a real cost of about £100.

 

So do I go and play trains for a day or buy a new loco to use at home?

[PaulRhB]

Grief what do you drive around in a tank?

That would only cost me about £25 - 30 with a 2 litre turbo engine.

[Talltim]

If you are like the rest of the modelling community, do you really need another loco?

[Joseph_Pestell]

Grief what do you drive around in a tank?

That would only cost me about £25 - 30 with a 2 litre turbo engine.

 

I seem to recall this subject being debated in a thread before. You are only taking fuel costs into account. Even the stingy HMRC reckon the cost of motoring at 42p a mile.

[cromptonnut]

I think that distance is a problem. If I drive 120 miles to an event (and back), that comes at a real cost of about £100.

 

So do I go and play trains for a day or buy a new loco to use at home?

 

Many of us wouldn't think twice about doing that distance to go to a show.  I did exactly that for the Kettering O Gauge show a couple of years back.

[PaulRhB]

I seem to recall this subject being debated in a thread before. You are only taking fuel costs into account. Even the stingy HMRC reckon the cost of motoring at 42p a mile.

Well I agree it depends what you add on to maintenance costs but I look at the fuel only as that's all I can claim back when exhibiting. The rest is just for the fun

I paid £130 for two nights in a hotel plus over 300 miles travel to do the U.S. Event the last two years and then the modules cost on top. It's the only way I get to operate on a big layout so it's just a mini holiday to me.

Purely depends what you want to spend your money on but I've enjoyed it and even Kenton did at the UK meet

[NickBrad]

I don't visit RMweb very often as I don't find it the easiest place to navigate, preferring the traditional style of forum layout, although I'm sure it's fine once you get used to where everything is. I am sad to see that this may fall down as I love the concept and do indeed have plans to build a small board to these standards. 

Being up here in the east midlands on a limited income means that travelling down to Surrey would be an expensive trip for me so I was hoping that after the success of the initial meet, the magazine would have a write up and could maybe encourage those with organisational skills to set up regional groups in other areas that potentially would be easier for me to travel to.

I do agree though Cromptonnut, you shouldn't be left to hold the flag high by yourself. No offence to Andy, but if he and others "up above" set the standards, then I'd at least have expected a module or two to have been built to support it. 

Just out of curiosity, if you had been able to set the standards yourself, what would you have done differently? 

[cromptonnut]

I do agree though Cromptonnut, you shouldn't be left to hold the flag high by yourself. No offence to Andy, but if he and others "up above" set the standards, then I'd at least have expected a module or two to have been built to support it. 

 

My arms are getting very, very tired - the flag is getting heavy.  I did invite Andy Y to our meeting back in June but sadly he had other commitments that weekend.

 

Just out of curiosity, if you had been able to set the standards yourself, what would you have done differently? 

 

An interesting question, to be honest I don't know if there is much that I'd change.  I think the standards as they are, as a result of many pages of discussion, are a fairly simple and workable set of things to work within (and I was quite active in that discussion so many of my suggestions were with the general concensus anyway, and those that weren't adopted were because someone else had better ideas.  4" frame height is perhaps a bit excessive (by my reckoning) but I understand the reasoning behind it.

 

One thing I would definitely have done would have been to do a deal with one of the laser cut baseboard manufacturers for a 4ft x 18" "standard" straight flat board and maybe a couple of curved (30 degree and 45 degree option) boards so that for those whom woodwork is a problem (such as myself) a set of bits could have been bought for a reasonable price enabling you to quickly and easily build a baseboard, but still enabling those who can to build their own so you don't have the "prescribed end plate templates" as used by other standards. 

[sp1]

I haven't read through the whole thread again (I did read from the start) - wasn't Andy Y going to put something in BRM, or offer similar support )apologies if I'm wrong. Didn't one of the other magazines also mention the modular concept on the editors page around the same time? (RM?)

With a little more support- with scattered meetings around the country (I'm in the West Midlands) I would have had a go : I suspect there are others in the same boat- travelling to the other end of the country for a 'one off' might not be viable, but I am sure I could have 'knocked together' a few boards to have a go at a local meeting....

[cromptonnut]

With a little more support- with scattered meetings around the country (I'm in the West Midlands) I would have had a go : I suspect there are others in the same boat- travelling to the other end of the country for a 'one off' might not be viable, but I am sure I could have 'knocked together' a few boards to have a go at a local meeting....

 

... and that, I think, is the basic problem - everyone is waiting for "someone else" to organise a convenient meeting local to them.

 

I fully accept that a trip to Surrey is not practical for everyone, but rather than sit back and wait for someone else to organise a convenient meeting, I took the initiative and organised one.  If others were to try the same I am sure that there would be people that would come along, and if there was another meet within a couple of hours of me (and it fitted in around my new work pattern) I would gladly travel to attend.

 

I've offered before, and I'll offer again, any help and advice I am able to if anyone isn't sure what to do, but all you really need to do is find a cheap enough venue that you can hire for a day, work out a cost for about 10 people (I went for £20 a head and that left us with about £20 spare at the end which is in the pot for next time), decide on a control system that everyone will be using (you may need some discussion to get a volunteer if you haven't got the righT stuff yourself) and advertise it.  If you can get enough interest, get people to pay up front with a non refundable payment unless it has to be cancelled (minus any deposits you can refund), hire the hall, and then wait for module details to come in. 

 

If you get enough people, confirm the hall, get module details a couple of months beforehand, vaguely plan how it all fits together, and then enjoy the day.  Just remember to get some tea, coffee, sugar and milk for the day!

 

It's much easier than organising an exhibition as you don't have the public, advertising and a massive budget to worry about.

[Guest]

Maybe I'm the odd one out here, but the thought of accepting an exhibition invite and being under the scrutiny of folk who have paid for admission quite frankly fills me with dread. On the other hand, a small gathering of like-minded folk who, even if you'd never met before, are likely to become mates is hugely appealing. Folk playing trains with no pressure. For that simple reason, I'm amazed no other regional meets have taken place.

[cromptonnut]

Very good point Pete - and let's not forget, if it's limited (at least in early stages) to RMWeb members then it's not even going to be total strangers as you'll most likely have already met each other on the boards and know a little about each other's interests beforehand - and certainly at least for me in your case having seen the progress of your layout/module/whatever on the forum I'd be looking forward to seeing it "in the flesh" as it were.

 

On the flip side, of course, many modellers are, for the want of a better term, "purists", particularly those that build with the idea of portability in mind, so the thought of their lovely little Great Western station being "polluted" by someone else's diesels running through it may be the reason they are put off participating.  We're a funny lot really.

 

As you say, the whole idea is "playing trains" and being able to give your trains a good stretch and some high speed running on a length of layout they have no hope of doing so at home on that little 8ft shunting plank, and it's the controlling rather than aesthetics that are the key thing here.  Of course, in the future there's no reason a group of GWR modellers couldn't all meet together and create a 100ft long complete GWR branch line, operating the 1936 summer Saturday timetable to the clock - and there's nothing wrong with that of course, but it's just as valid as a LSWR unfitted freight train passing a Pendolino at speed going through an LNER station whilst a blue/grey 4-CEP sits in the bay waiting for a green light.

[Zomboid]

I think its a brilliant idea and would love to build a module when time/ space/ funds allow. Though my priority would be an American one, so I don't see it as a likely 2016 achievement.

[cromptonnut]

There are several modular standards already in existence for American HO and N, this new standard was specifically for UK prototype modellers.

[raymw]

A few posts back, maybe the beginnings of a Midlands sub group - one from East, one from West, maybe find a guy in the middle. Then, a couple of boards each, and away they go.

[cromptonnut]

A few posts back, maybe the beginnings of a Midlands sub group - one from East, one from West, maybe find a guy in the middle. Then, a couple of boards each, and away they go.

 

It can be that simple indeed - you don't necessarily need to worry about hiring a hall if one of you has a large garden (weather permitting, of course) or garage that is big enough then there's absolutely no reason why you can't test the principle in that way.

 

There's no "smallest size" of a board, although I'd suggest 2ft to be at least practical, my smallest module (a single track with buffer stop, to act as an end piece) is four inches long...

[sp1]

It can be that simple indeed - you don't necessarily need to worry about hiring a hall if one of you has a large garden (weather permitting, of course) or garage that is big enough then there's absolutely no reason why you can't test the principle in that way.

 

There's no "smallest size" of a board, although I'd suggest 2ft to be at least practical, my smallest module (a single track with buffer stop, to act as an end piece) is four inches long...

Ok.....

Anyone in the West Midlands want to have a go?

[cromptonnut]

Ok.....

Anyone in the West Midlands want to have a go?

 

That's exactly how we arranged our first meeting.  I suggested a venue, those interested in coming organised a date, and we went from there.

 

I'd suggest you start a new thread in this forum, with a "bleedin obvious" title such as "WEST MIDLANDS MODULAR MEET?" and an indication of some possible dates and venues in your vicinity in the first post, and see what happens.

 

The important thing you'll need to sort out is settling on a control system.  We used a Lenz set as I had several controllers and a laptop interface which would power the lot.  It needs to be something that you can use multiple controllers with (so that rules out something like a Hornby Elite) and it may not be you that needs to organise that as well if someone else volunteers.

 

If the date fits in with my work pattern, you may well find that I can come along as well - I have a 12ft long, 8 road into single track fiddle yard, a 45 degree corner board and a 4ft "duckunder" disguised as a tunnel, which I know all fit in my Fiesta if required.

 

Good luck.  From acorns, etc...

[raymw]

That's exactly how we arranged our first meeting.  I suggested a venue, those interested in coming organised a date, and we went from there.

 

I'd suggest you start a new thread in this forum, with a "bleedin obvious" title such as "WEST MIDLANDS MODULAR MEET?" and an indication of some possible dates and venues in your vicinity in the first post, and see what happens.

 

The important thing you'll need to sort out is settling on a control system.  We used a Lenz set as I had several controllers and a laptop interface which would power the lot.  It needs to be something that you can use multiple controllers with (so that rules out something like a Hornby Elite) and it may not be you that needs to organise that as well if someone else volunteers.

 

If the date fits in with my work pattern, you may well find that I can come along as well - I have a 12ft long, 8 road into single track fiddle yard, a 45 degree corner board and a 4ft "duckunder" disguised as a tunnel, which I know all fit in my Fiesta if required.

 

Good luck.  From acorns, etc...

 

I think that is a bit of cart b4 the horse, in this instance, sounds rather formal. SP1 would also be seen as organising it all, just like happened with you. I think maybe first off would be a toe in the water, see who is interested in the locality, more casual meetings to start with, back-gardens, garages, wherever as first suggested. Then, the core of two or three like minded souls could go public. Perhaps a starting point would be a leaflet/advert in the local model shop, if there is one, to see who is out there.

[cromptonnut]

It may be that there are only two or three people interested, and one has a large garage available, and they can get together long before organising a "large" meet (having said that, ours was only 8 or 9 people so not really large either).

 

As I've said before, I think there is a lot of potential, with the right emphasis, for modular but it needs people to take the initiative and I can only do so much.

 

There was a modular challenge for 2015 ... what became of that?

[FelixM]

Hi,

 

In my view what went wrong with RMweb modular is that it is of a top down approach. I know of no other systems that were created like that and became a success.

 

It rather work like this: Many modellers build many modules and therefore many deviations occur. Some are not successful, but other things prove to be superior of the original ideas and therefore becomes the new standard. Papers often don't domcument this to the full extent if at all. At a certain degree some modellers won't follow any more the newest developments because they have no need for it. That typically is the moment when modular groups diversify, like 00 "basic", 00-finescale and EM/P4.

 

In this spirit you should maybe rather try to establish contacts to interests and carry on with the "curry night" idea and chat, rather than meeting at a modular event for the first time. Ideas and inspiration will follow.

 

Regards

Felix

[PaulRhB]

Bit early to say it's not a success slow start maybe but hardly dead.

 

We know the format works technically as its identical apart from the track used to the RS Freemo spec and that has spawned two new venues and pretty much packed out the current hall.

 

Maybe there's just not enough UK modellers interested in operations to drive it like the US version? Is it simply the fact it's a big layout rather than a chance to run trains to a sort of service?

I'm not talking sophisticated timetabling here just actually defining local and 'mainline' services destinations and having wagons serve certain sidings rather than random drop offs.

Just a thought.

[cromptonnut]

It may well simply be that most people prefer to "play trains", and those that are more interested in more accurate operations and services already run their layouts to that and aren't interested in the inevitable mixture of eras and companies that modular meets are going to produce.