Another One started - Kingdom Kits Barclay 16"

[5050]

Is there no stopping this man!?  The Bagnall not quite finished yet and he can't help himself starting yet another industrial saddle tank kit?  I suppose I can't resist starting things - the finishing of them is another subject entirely!  I doubt if I am alone in this....................

 

Whatever, I've had this box in my stash for several many years, opening it occasionally to check if the contents are still there - and if they may have magically improved over the years.  The truth is that the quality is not what we expect nowadays in both the etching and the castings and I have always assumed that it would be a 'challenge'.  It is.  The body castings need quite a bit of fettling to fit and as for the 'add-ons' - !!!   Chassis, rods etc. are in thin brass, I much prefer nickel silver for this.  It is harder and stiffer and often thicker which then makes up into a nice rigid assembly.  However, we have to use the cards we are dealt so I decided to start with the chassis and 'amend' it as I went along in line with the more exacting standards I seem to practice these days.

 

Here are the main parts before starting.  Some fettling has already taken place but a lot is still to be done.  The boiler 'bottom' is a particularly nasty casting, highly mishapen and the instructions are very vague as to how it fits and what to do to clear the motor.  It will be replaced.......... -

 

 

Here the frame sides have been detached from the fret and tack soldered together ready for marking and drilling where required.  The holes for the axle bushes were WAY to big.  Nearly the whole bush went through not just the axle part!  I have marked out the centre line of the cylinders, drilled a hole for attaching them to the frames and marked out for compensated axle boxes and horn guides.  For some reason I had a mental block and started to mark out for horn guides on both axles but then suddenly realised that I only needed to do this for the non-drive axle!  The drive axle is fixed - but I had to turn new larger diameter bushes to fit the etched holes.  Small holes are drilled in the corners of the cut-out to ease using the piercing saw.  The final size/shape will be filed after.  The second/third photo shows the start of the parallel slot for the 'fixed' bearings - which will be removable in due course.  The cylinder fixing holes have been opened up to a tight fit on 8BA.  Nuts will be soldered inside the frames eventually.

 

 

The frames have been separated and assembled with my 'patent' assembly jigs.  The kit spacers went in place very well and all is square.

 

 

The slots for the 'fixed' axle have been finished and fine brass tube soldered across the open ends trapping the bushes in place for now.  The tube will be cut through and wire 'keepers' fitted to retain them in use.  The pivot for the compensated axle has been attached as an 'outrigger' from the front frame spacer by means of a steel 8BA screw adjusted from above.  This will be Locktighted in place once complete.  The hole in the spacer serves as the front chassis fixing point up into the smokebox area.  The lower frame spacer has a captive nut attached for a keeper plate/pick-up attachment to be fitted.  The circular rings on the frame tops are halves of the gearbox retention tubes.

 

The motor is a small Sagami (another long term resident of my stash) along with a High Level gearbox.  The motor will fit into the boiler and so needs to be retained horizontally.  This is done with a brass tube soldered across the frames and gearbox then cut through each side with a close fitting wire holding all together.  The 'new' axle bushes have been cut down in length to be an exact fit for the gearbox to slide into place with no sideplay.

 

The cast kit cylinders are TERRIBLE!  Two halves for each which are supposed to be soldered together trapping a length of brass tube for the piston rod.  However, they are badly cast, to big and have no visible means of support!  I have turned some new ones using the Bagnall ones as a guide.  Drilling points for the 8BA supports were scribed on during the turning process, the final drilling and tapping will be done using the vertical slide on the lathe along with drilling for the slide bars.  Here you can see the pivot point hole positions initially marked.

 

 

I have recently discovered that a clubmate of mine built one of these several years ago in EM and got it running acceptably.  I have congratulated him profusely since starting and told him that my opinion of his kit-building prowess has now been considerably enhanced!

[Adam]

I see what you mean about the cylinders, that's an 'interesting' piece of design. I was very happy with the design of the cylinder/crosshead assembly on the Impetus Bagnall so that seems a sensible idea to copy. Still, these large Barclay 0-4-0s are attractive machines so the end result should be worthwhile but how much of the kit will remain?

 

Adam

[rope runner]

I have one of these which I picked up second hand, already completed. 

 

On my model, the cylinders were spaced out from the frames using laminated copper clad strip.The etched cross head assembly looks rather over-scale, and would look vastly improved with cast version. There's also something not quite right with the dimensions of the cab front windows. 

 

Watching with interest. 

 

Paul A. 

[5050]

I have one of these which I picked up second hand, already completed. 

 

On my model, the cylinders were spaced out from the frames using laminated copper clad strip.The etched cross head assembly looks rather over-scale, and would look vastly improved with cast version. There's also something not quite right with the dimensions of the cab front windows. 

 

Watching with interest. 

 

Paul A. 

Yes, the crossheads are larger than the Bagnall  - and the holes for the pivot are very large.  I've looked at cast crossheads as alternatives but haven't found anything that comes up to scratch these days, the ones I've found (and not many of them!) seem crude and quite small.  At one time George Norton for example, had all sorts of cast parts readily available but the supply seems to have dried up these days.

 

Do you have a photo of yours?  Regarding the front cab windows, I've noticed that the top of the tank extends past the lower window edges but not sure if this is correct.  I need to revisit my books again to find photos of the protoype working in Scotland.

[rope runner]

Comet do some cast brass crossheads, but the ones I have look a bit on the small side.

 

I think the windows are wrong, or they are for AB 926 of 1902, which was a bulky 16'' design with circular front windows. 

 

Here's one which Mike Edge built and detailed:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78572-cwmafon/page-4

 

Here's mine, not built or painted by me, though I did add the dumb buffers. The bottom of the boiler has been cut down the center and flexed outward, with drive through the front axle on a single reduction basic gearbox. 

 

Markits do Barclay pattern wheels, but I'm not sure that they do the correct spoke number combined with the right wheel diameter for these. 

 

Paul A. 

[Dava]

Good photos, I recall riding on the Frances Colliery pug back in 1977, among the last NCB steam in Scotland, certainly in Fife. It shows the correct shape of the front spectacle windows.

 

What a shocker that kit is, glad I didn't buy one, not one of the maker's (who shall be nameless) best!

 

Dava

[5050]

Yes,they are!  BUT - they have shown that (as Dava says) the windows on the kit are completely wrong!  Not only in the wrong place but the wrong shape.  Allegedly, according to the kit 'instructions', the kit is based on 2292 but it would seem that - unless the cab was changed at some point late in life - the research was perhaps a bit lacking.  I have filled the kit 'holes' with some white metal circles from the scrap box (moral - never throw anything away!) and redrilled to a smaller diameter in a higher position and will 'line' them with some brass tube segments.  It will be a 'representative' Barclay 16".

 

Photos to follow!

[5050]

The plot thickens!  After posting the above I went and searched through my 'library', being sure I had seen a photo purporting to be of 2292, with round windows.  I found it.  It is in 'Industrial Steam Album 2' by Fox and King on page 116.  Taken at Rothes Colliery but sadly not dated.  So, is the photo actually of 2292?  Did it have a cab change?  What does it have now in preservation?  Am I bovered?

 

Whatever, here are some shots of the latest construction.

 

The rods on the kit etch are lamentably thin so I've thickened them up with 20thou scrap nickel silver etch pieces and filed to outline.  Both Connecting and Coupling rods done this way.  A 1.5mm drill was used to register the crankpin holes.  The coupling rods have a thinner piece soldered to the front hole to obtain more rear crankpin clearance.

 

 

Cylinders have been drilled to take the 8BA locating studs.

 

 

And trial fitted to the frames.  8BA nuts have been soldered to the inside of the frames.

 

 

Window holes in cab front and back filled and smoothed off.  The parts used are some sort of shouldered 'pin' probably intended for bogie pivot or similar.  The protruding parts on the rear were filed off flush.

 

 

I have also tried a method of locating the tank top and the cab front in the correct position using my 90' 'jig', scrap stripwood and drawing pins.  There is no method of accurate location included in the kit parts - and not a lot is square either - so I tried this.  It was reasonably sucessful - but I couldn't get the parts to solder together!  They are very thick which is probably part of the problem and I was very loath to turn the heat up on the iron in case I went to far and melted the boiler front which is much thinner than the tank top.  Some lateral thinking will now be required! Or Araldite.

 

 

I have a set of Gibson (almost) correct pattern wheels but they are 3'9".  Given the other irregularities in the kit I'm quite happy to use them!

 

I have also realised that I had another mental block when naming some of the photos - I couldn't spell 'Barclay'!!

[Adam]

I must admit that my inclination would have been to replace the cab in its entirety with sheet brass, so as to better represent the utilitarian nature of the post-war Kilmarnock cab. Some Barclays of this size certainly had circular spectacles on the front, but can I find a picture easily? Not right now.

 

Adam

[5050]

More work done on the body which, the more I do with it, becomes less and less satisfactory.  I'm sure the proportions are all wrong, it seems top heavy, the tank is to high relative to the cab front and now I've redrilled the windows to clear the top corners of the tank the driver will need to be rather tall!  I may reduce the height of the boiler front and the cab front (which is taller than the cab rear anyway!) to try and get it more in proportion.  In the end, I can't see it being perfect so I'll do the best I can and hope that it will make up for all this by being a good runner.

 

Anyway, the tank top was attached to the tank/boiler front - with Araldite.  As there is no method of location in the kit I drilled 2 x 1mm holes in the boiler front and marked them through into the end of the tank top, drilled this 1mm and inserted two short lengths of NS 1mm wire.  The front was pinned to the end of the bench with some clingfilm over the edge, plenty of Araldite smeared across the joining faces, the wires inserted through the holes and a small clamp used to hold it all together overnight.  I made sure that there was extraneous Araldite oozing out of the joints which helped to fill most of the gaps.  When set, the assembly was inverted on my 90' jig, help in place with drawing pins etc. and the tank sides attached.  Again, overnight each with plenty of oozed adhesive.  When fully cured the assembly was attacked with files and fine emery to try and smooth off the very poor joints which were unavoidable with the poor quality of the castings.

 

 

One point which emerged during this was that the tank sides are shorter than the tank front.  This means that the firebox sides are now to short as they are the same height as the boiler front casting.  However, if I end up lowering the boiler front as mentioned above this may sort itself.

 

I also now need to work out how I am going to represent to bottom half of the boiler below tank level.  The kit casting is useless IMHO so I'm trying various options of tubing which will have to be cut away to clear the motor and gearbox - which I'm coming to realise my be to low to be hidden up in the boiler.  The last photo shows this.  I may have to reposition my 'gearbox locating tube brackets' and have the motor angled upwards rather than level.

 

 

The holes are faults in the casting.  They may be filled with 'rust' in due course!

[5050]

This build seems to be one with a sequence of two steps forward one step back!  Having got the tank to locate into the cab front as seen above, I looked at it length and came to the conclusion that it was all pitched rather to high.  The cab front was also approx. 0.5mm higher than the cab back.  I have therefore taken this amount from the bottom of the cab front and sides and an additional 1.5mm from the boiler front, thereby reducing the height by 2mm.  New 'location pin' holes were drilled in the cab front 1.5mm lower to suit the new tank height and, with more space available, the window apertures were filed out larger.  This all now looks - in my eye anyway - a bit more balanced.  Doing this now meant that the cast-on smokebox door was been affected so I decided to file it flat and make a new one of the low 'drumhead' style with the flat middle and tightly radiused edge.  This has been done in 2 layers of 40thou plastic, filed to shape, with hinges from microstrip.  The boiler front handrails will also need repositioning to suit the new door position.

 

 

 

The chimney has also been 'worked upon'.  As supplied it was not a lot of use being completely bunged up!  I considered looking around for a substitute but this morning decided to have a go at drilling it out which in fact, didn't turn out to bad.   However, now I've lowered the tank etc. and looking at photos I think it may be a bit to low which is a pity after the hour or so spent drilling and carving!  Note the pile of swarf and filings which is some of the surplus whitemetal from the operation.

 

 

 

I want the tank assembly (as is usual with my builds) to be removable so I have fixed a captive 8BA nut below the smokebox, using an EM gauge frame spacer which turned out to be exactly the right width to fit between the smokebox sides.  Always knew they would come in useful for something one day!  This has now been a Araldited into the smokebox and the screw cut to length accordingly.

 

 

More photos soon showing the redrilled cab windows complete with brass frame surrounds.  Doubt if this is strictly prototypical - but I like it!

[5050]

Following reading about High Level Gearboxes on this thread -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107202-pre-assembled-motor-gearbox-combination/

 

and being guided by fellow REM Webber bike2steam's instructions (post 16 onwards) I have tried another non-Loctite method of securing the gearwheel to the axle by mechanical rather than 'glue' means.  Basically, the method entails drilling and lightly tapping the axle for 10BA, fitting a 10BA cheese head screw cut to length, squaring the screw head, filing a suitable size 'keyway' into the gear wheel to accept the screw head.

 

Here are the stages -

 

Drilling the axle for an easy tapping for 10BA.  I used a 1.2mm drill, the tapping merely prevents the screw from falling out during assembly.

 

 

Square off the head of the 10BA cheesehead screw approx. 2mm square.  I only had brass screws but I can't see that this is a problem as there will be very little - if any - movement between the gear and the screw.

 

 

Screw the 10BA into the axle hole.

 

 

File the keyway into the gear wheel so that the screw head is a good sliding fit.

 

 

Test the fit - and then carry on with the assembly!

 

 

As the gearbox was already built up I found I had to remove the top 'floating' gear set to allow the middle set to slide to one side so that the screw could be fitted into the axle. Once the gear and screw are mated the top gear can be refitted which then holds everything in place.

 

 

[wagonbasher]

I am fascinated by your progress. I bought this kit 25 years ago but failed very early on. It was my first attempt at a loco I handed the kit to Geoff cook - (of new haden colliery) but it sits unmade... More worthy (and better designed) projects in front of it.

 

Andy

[5050]

Can't believe it is nearly 8 months since I posted on this thread!  Mind you, I was getting a bit stymied with it and other things (new layout, track, buildings etc.) rather took over but, the last few days, I decided to have another go and this is how it looks this afternoon (the other day it was going to appear a lot flatter and reduced to component parts - but that's another story!).

 

 

The crossheads utilsed the kit sides with some 1 mm wide NS strip for the bearing surfaces, bent into an angular 'U' shape and adjusted so that the width was that of the inside of the slide bars.  The 3 parts soldered together with a length of 1.5mm aluminium tube keeping them in line.  As the hole in the sides was etched so big I used some 1.5mm diam brass tube as the pivot, soldered flush on the inside (with the connecting rod in situ covered in black felt pen to stop it all being soldered up solid) and projecting on the outside to represent to prototype design.  A short length of wire will be fitted into the hole in due course.  Once all this was done the projecting parts of the 'U' were sawn off and filed flush.  A fair bit of fettling was needed to get them sliding freely and then the piston rods were soldered on - very carefully!  Just a quick touch of the iron with the minimum of solder, hopefully to stop the whole thing from falling apart - which, of course, one of them did.  Some industrial strength language then ensued, along with a nerve settling cuppa, and a rethink on the whole process which - finally! - resulted in a pair.

 

The cylinder ends are rings of 20thou styrene with applied styrene bolt heads, the piston rod covers are plastic wagon buffer heads flattened and reduced in diameter with the buffer shank cut down for the actual rod cover.  All attached with a thin smear of Araldite being careful not to get any down the piston rod hole.

 

The slide bar support bracket had a 'T' edging attached from thin brass strip and was made overall wider with a section of brass channel the internal width of the frames, all soldered together so the overall width was slightly more than that of the footplate.  In the photos it is not yet attached to the slide bars as I'm still trying to work out the sequence of operations rather than just attack with all guns (or soldering irons!) blazing - and then wishing I hadn't when I later come to try and adjust or remove part.

 

I've an idea I may have to turn and tap a pair of longer crank pin bushes for the rear wheels as, owing to the short wheelbase, the connecting rods are taking on quite an angle between the wheels and the crosshead.  Front crank pin clearance behind the crosshead has an important part to play here.

 

Currently there is slight amount of 'binding' which I am sure relates to the connecting rod/rear crankpin 'interface' but otherwise it all moves very smoothly if a bit 'tight' at present.  Nothing like a spell of running in!

[Ruston]

Nice to see some progress on this.

[gr.king]

I'm so glad that somebody else on this planet has actually heard of Kingdom Kits. The blank looks I get when people ask me about the origins of my GCR 2-6-4T and I answer with "Kingdom Kits" have to be seen to be believed.

 

I don't remember any horrific defects in the body castings, in fact I think the body went together quite well, although ingenuity was required in order to solder the inwardly sloping coal rails in place over the bunker when there was no access to the bunker from beneath. Somebody certainly wasn't thinking clearly when the chassis etches were designed though. The unevenly divided six-coupled wheel base was set out back-to-front!

 

Full marks for persistence with that Barclay's chimney. It looks as if you are heaving real fun with the chassis too.

[5050]

I'm so glad that somebody else on this planet has actually heard of Kingdom Kits. The blank looks I get when people ask me about the origins of my GCR 2-6-4T and I answer with "Kingdom Kits" have to be seen to be believed.

 

I don't remember any horrific defects in the body castings, in fact I think the body went together quite well, although ingenuity was required in order to solder the inwardly sloping coal rails in place over the bunker when there was no access to the bunker from beneath. Somebody certainly wasn't thinking clearly when the chassis etches were designed though. The unevenly divided six-coupled wheel base was set out back-to-front!

 

Full marks for persistence with that Barclay's chimney. It looks as if you are heaving real fun with the chassis too.

Chimney has actually been changed for a taller and thinner one of undecided origin.  Like I've said, it will be a very generic Barclay!

 

More photos will follow soon.

[Rail-Online]

I too have one of these and I came to the conclusion it was the worst kit I had ever seen. Even worse than Jidenco's poorest efforts. I wonder if it was done before the GC 2-6-4T they did?

 

I think the tank sits too high (and is probably an incorrect shape) and lowering it down is difficult as the smokebox door is cast into the tank front.

 

I applaud you on your perseverance - when finished you will have the best completed Kingdom Kit ever!

 

Tony

[jrg1]

Nice to see a silk purse being made out of a horse's a**e, using good modelling techniques.  I saw that you were having problems soldering the whitemetal tank to the Cab front, and Araldited it.  I suggest that by using a temperature controlled iron, Carr's 70 solder is tinned onto the mating surfaces, they are set up together, and then wipe soldered with plenty of flux and 90 solder.  Look at the solder melting to judge the heat, and wipe over the join with the iron after soldering to tidy up and ensure the parts are fused together.  Easier to do than describe.

Keep up the posts-most enjoyable.

[5050]

Nice to see a silk purse being made out of a horse's a**e, using good modelling techniques.  I saw that you were having problems soldering the whitemetal tank to the Cab front, and Araldited it.  I suggest that by using a temperature controlled iron, Carr's 70 solder is tinned onto the mating surfaces, they are set up together, and then wipe soldered with plenty of flux and 90 solder.  Look at the solder melting to judge the heat, and wipe over the join with the iron after soldering to tidy up and ensure the parts are fused together.  Easier to do than describe.

Keep up the posts-most enjoyable.

Tried that - didn't work!

 

Well, for me at any rate.

[5050]

OK chaps and chappesses, here's the photos I promised - and thanks for all the 'Likes' etc.

 

I've been quite busy this last week or so, building trap points for Drybrook Road and doing a bit more to the Barclay.  Details have been added to the body (handrails, smokebox door, safety valves and chimney) and the footplate has had some springs, reversing rod and buffer housings added.  Still a few more bits and bobs to add, hopefully this next week.  I've also turned up some longer threaded crank pin bushes to accept the connecting rod, coupling rod and a thick spacing washer used to bring the connecting rod back in line with the slide bars.  This has made the running a bit less prone to 'stick' but I still feel the need to have another fettling session on this.  The trouble is that it is running 'dry' as I don't want to add any oil before I paint so, once it's all painted and oiled it maybe OK.

 

Here are all the main parts of the body etc. prior to assembly.  They locate together and an 8BA screw through a chassis spacer into a captive nut under the smokebox holds it all together.  I always try to build locos as sub-assemblies as painting them is so much easier.

 

 

A view of the parts put together.  The cab is till to be sorted as is the firbox door plate (backhead) which is having a slight amount of detail added.  The cab back will have to be attached to the footplate but the roof will probably come away.  I may also raise the cab roof slightly now I've fitted a taller chimney, in order to 'balance' the appearance.

 

 

A similar view from the other side.

 

 

 

[jrg1]

Tried that - didn't work!

 

Well, for me at any rate.

Interesting, 5050.  I wonder if the quality of the whitemetal has anything to do with it?  I found that Warhammer castings-of all things-were by far the easiest to solder up, due to decent metal spec.

Here is an SE Finecast A3 boiler shell prepared for a PDK kit, to replace the resin boiler moulding.

[wagonbasher]

OK chaps and chappesses, here's the photos I promised - and thanks for all the 'Likes' etc.

 

I've been quite busy this last week or so, building trap points for Drybrook Road and doing a bit more to the Barclay.  Details have been added to the body (handrails, smokebox door, safety valves and chimney) and the footplate has had some springs, reversing rod and buffer housings added.  Still a few more bits and bobs to add, hopefully this next week.  I've also turned up some longer threaded crank pin bushes to accept the connecting rod, coupling rod and a thick spacing washer used to bring the connecting rod back in line with the slide bars.  This has made the running a bit less prone to 'stick' but I still feel the need to have another fettling session on this.  The trouble is that it is running 'dry' as I don't want to add any oil before I paint so, once it's all painted and oiled it maybe OK.

 

Here are all the main parts of the body etc. prior to assembly.  They locate together and an 8BA screw through a chassis spacer into a captive nut under the smokebox holds it all together.  I always try to build locos as sub-assemblies as painting them is so much easier.

 

Barclay Main Components Sept 16.1.A.jpg

 

A view of the parts put together.  The cab is till to be sorted as is the firbox door plate (backhead) which is having a slight amount of detail added.  The cab back will have to be attached to the footplate but the roof will probably come away.  I may also raise the cab roof slightly now I've fitted a taller chimney, in order to 'balance' the appearance.

 

Barclay Main Components Sept 16.2.A.jpg

 

A similar view from the other side.

 

Barclay Main Components Erected Sept 16.1.A.jpg

This is looking very smart. Personally I'm not sure about the chimney.....

 

 

 

I realise that it is a far better casting you have here that the one supplied with the kit but the tall ones does sort of distract from the stocky and purposeful nature of the prototype. Just a personal view I still think you have turned an ugly duckling of a kit into a swan.

 

Andy

[rope runner]

I have to agree that the replacement chimney looks the wrong profile for a large 16'' AB.

 

It's more akin to something fitted to an early 14'' design by, but looks too large for that purpose. 

 

Having a look at my Barclay chimney in my bits box (off the 14'' DJH kit), it also has the wrong profile for the larger design IMO. Mercian used to do a 15'' design in 4mm, it could be worth asking them if they have a spare chimney...

 

 

Paul A, 

[avonside1563]

That Chimney is far too tall and would probably put the loco outside the loading gauge for many industrial lines.

 

However it does remind me of a tale in the book 'Dalmellington Iron Company - it's engines and men' of a line called Quarry Brig which was accessed via a very restricted tunnel built to fit the dimensions of the locomotive that worked it. However when that loco was replaced by a bigger one the only way they could get it through to the quarry was to rig up a block and tackle and remove the chimney each time the loco went through the tunnel and then replace it when the shunting was finished.