Clearwater Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I agree re difference between catalogue and actual release dates. I'd suggest keeping stock in the year announced with a bracketed date shooting when it reached retail. To take the WD example above I'd notate as WD 2-8-0 1995 (1999) On the predominance of BR liveries, I guess that's to be expected given most locos probably wore BR colours for a good proportion of their operational lives plus given BR covers all four regioan:, it has a statistical advantage to show up more than other liveries. I agree re Hornby guide site - I've found it easiest o search by catalogue year though it's hard to tell what is actually really new each year Great initiative btw David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 You will need to make an explicit definition of 'new tooling' for your tabulation. Maybe you can follow another compiler's precedent in this matter, or decide for yourself. All of these mentioned in your post: Bulleid Light Pacifics, B12, A3, B17, Fowler 2P, Jinty; have been present in the Triang/Triang-Hornby/Hornby range made from tooling created in the UK from the 1950s on. The current Jinty and B12 still contain elements defined by their first tooling in the 50s and 60s respectively. Some of these subjects: Bulleid's light pacific, A3, B17, have since been completely new tooled since Hornby went to Chinese production, no relation whatsoever to the earlier tooling. The B12 has been announced for just such an 'all-new' tooling in 2016. Items like the Fowler 4F, J94, N2, 61XX, Terrier, L&Y Pug, were tooled originally by completely different businesses and subsequently absorbed, largely unchanged, into Hornby's range, well before they moved to China. Some have received alterations since acquisition by Hornby, but there is still previous manufacturer origin tooling in their make up. Then there's the D16/3: that's an all new tooling of a subject that Hornby had never previously offered, announced 2014, available 2015. The Bachmann V2, Patriot, Ivatt 2MT, well predate 2000, introduced on split chassis mechs between 1991 and 1995 I would guess. They have had revisions since, but original elements of the tooling remain, they are not 'all-new'. First release City of Truro 2009, C1 2015, H2 not yet!, Midland Compound 2011, Jubilee 2008, BR 9F 2006, 5MT 2000, BR 4MT 2-6-4T 2001, BR 3MT 2009. That's on the basis of memory, so I might be a little out on one or two. Personally I think you would do better to go with the year items went on retail sale, rather than first appearance in a catalogue, as there have been - and are - some long durations between catalogue announcement and availability. For example Bachmann's WD 2-8-0 was announced I think in late 1995, went on sale late 1999. Thanks for the information, I have tryed to make the issue of a complete retool/smaller changes clearer by labelling them ®=Previously modelled but completely retooled and ©=Previously Modelled but changes made. If people are able to offer when a model first appeared in shops instead of the year it was announced for I will add this in brackets, but the catalogue year is generally much easier to find! I thought the Hornby Fowler 4F had been completely retooled, but this has now been changed. I did realise about the J94, N2, 61XX, Terrier and L&Y Pug. I believe the V2 is now due a complete retool having had the chassis done 2011, but will add that the Ivatt and Patriot have only had changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 I agree re difference between catalogue and actual release dates. I'd suggest keeping stock in the year announced with a bracketed date shooting when it reached retail. To take the WD example above I'd notate as WD 2-8-0 1995 (1999) On the predominance of BR liveries, I guess that's to be expected given most locos probably wore BR colours for a good proportion of their operational lives plus given BR covers all four regioan:, it has a statistical advantage to show up more than other liveries. I agree re Hornby guide site - I've found it easiest o search by catalogue year though it's hard to tell what is actually really new each year Great initiative btw David Thanks, what I find most interesting is that the BR liveries have become more popular on models at the same time as on preserved locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted December 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2015 Your missing the N15 (King Arthur) Class - 2006 (I think) Also the T9 had a slight tooling change after the first releases to correct a mistake with pipework and improve running (2009). The Britannia's have been altered since their retool (certainly by the time of the last two SK releases) (2012-13) - cab roof ventilators retooled. The Heavy Tanks have had a major retool after their initial release (2014-15) - chassis redesign (inclusion of brass bearings and other details), separate smoke box dart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) When you say brand new, does that mean new tooling or not done before? I have assumed new tooling. You will need to make an explicit definition of 'new tooling' for your tabulation. Maybe you can follow another compiler's precedent in this matter, or decide for yourself. It's there - at the bottom of the second image: New = Brand new (as opposed to modified tooling) since 2000 For legibility purposes I broke the spreadsheet into two images. I don't purport my list to be definitive. Fact checking is welcome. Edited December 30, 2015 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Personally I think you would do better to go with the year items went on retail sale, rather than first appearance in a catalogue, as there have been - and are - some long durations between catalogue announcement and availability. For example Bachmann's WD 2-8-0 was announced I think in late 1995, went on sale late 1999. I agree re difference between catalogue and actual release dates. I'd suggest keeping stock in the year announced with a bracketed date shooting when it reached retail. To take the WD example above I'd notate as WD 2-8-0 1995 (1999) I agree with you both and this is the value of the researched printed materials like the Ramsay's guide. The collective wisdom here can fill in many gaps if people are willing to contribute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Andy W Posted December 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2015 The Bachmann V2, Patriot, Ivatt 2MT, well predate 2000, introduced on split chassis mechs between 1991 and 1995 I would guess. They have had revisions since, but original elements of the tooling remain, they are not 'all-new'. All depends which Ivatt 2MT of course. The 2-6-2T is exactly as you say and will appear, eventually, with a new chassis in 2016, the 2-6-0 is much newer and never was split chassis. Then there's more than one type of Patriot too. The Rebuilt Patriot used the same split chassis as the early Jubilees, and hasn't reappeared retooled yet. The Unrebuilt Patriot was a completely new model and never formed part of the range in the split chassis era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Your missing the N15 (King Arthur) Class - 2006 (I think) Also the T9 had a slight tooling change after the first releases to correct a mistake with pipework and improve running (2009). The Britannia's have been altered since their retool (certainly by the time of the last two SK releases) (2012-13) - cab roof ventilators retooled. The Heavy Tanks have had a major retool after their initial release (2014-15) - chassis redesign (inclusion of brass bearings and other details), separate smoke box dart. I didn't realise the heavy tanks had been changed. I think this means the only main range model affected by design clever is the star, with the hall, P2, D of G and Tornado in the railroad range. p.s. Does anyone know what type of buffers the heavy tanks have now? Edited December 30, 2015 by MatthewCarty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted December 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2015 I didn't realise the heavy tanks had been changed. I think this means the only main range model affected by design clever is the star, with the hall, P2, D of G and Tornado in the railroad range. p.s. Does anyone know what type of buffers the heavy tanks have now? Still unsprung. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 All depends which Ivatt 2MT of course. The 2-6-2T is exactly as you say and will appear, eventually, with a new chassis in 2016, the 2-6-0 is much newer and never was split chassis. Then there's more than one type of Patriot too. The Rebuilt Patriot used the same split chassis as the early Jubilees, and hasn't reappeared retooled yet. The Unrebuilt Patriot was a completely new model and never formed part of the range in the split chassis era. I have updated with details of the two ivatt 2s, does anyone know when the ivatt 4 was introduced. Presumably the rebuilt patriot is not really relevant as Hornby have produced a much more detailed version since then. Does anyone know when the unrebuilt Patriot was introduced? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Does anyone know when the unrebuilt Patriot was introduced? 2008 and a much under-rated model too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Other Bachmann locos I don't know the dates are A1, A2, V3, J39, 56xx, N class, 45xx, Crab, Jinty, K3 and Fairburn tank. Many thanks for any help! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Other Bachmann locos I don't know the dates are A1, A2, V3, J39, 56xx, N class, 45xx, Crab, Jinty, K3 and Fairburn tank. Many thanks for any help! In terms of 'first went on sale' my recollections are: A1 2001, A2 2010, N class 2000, Crab 2003, K3 2004, Jinty 2005, Fairburn 2006. The V1/V3 and J39 were announced and went on sale in the 1990s, as also I suspect the 56XX and 57XX which used body tooling from the old Mainline brand. Regarding first catalogue appearances, the N class was announced at the same time as the WD 2-8-0, late 1995/early 1996. Again with the significant gap between 'announced' and 'on sale'? The only reason I know this of the N and WD is that a onetime - and most excellent - colleague sent me a Bachmann catalogue in the office internal mail, with some information about what the Barwell team were intending in terms of introducing better OO models to the UK market; he was a friend of one of those involved. That's the only Bachmann catalogue I possess! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) In terms of 'first went on sale' my recollections are: A1 2001, A2 2010, N class 2000, Crab 2003, K3 2004, Jinty 2005, Fairburn 2006. The V1/V3 and J39 were announced and went on sale in the 1990s, as also I suspect the 56XX and 57XX which used body tooling from the old Mainline brand. This is pretty much as I remember it too. Although this is strictly speaking in a Hornby thread, the one I wait for is the Bachmann H2 Atlantic. (busy with new Hornby models; A4 60023 in BR blue, and three Bulleid Light Pacifics; Bude, Manston and Okehampton how lucky are we? ) typo edit Edited December 31, 2015 by robmcg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 This is pretty much as I remember it too. Although this is strictly speaking in a Hornby thread, the one I wait for is the Bachmann H2 Atlantic. (busy with new Hornby models; A4 60023 in BR blue, and three Bulleid Light Pacifics; Bude, Manston and Okehampton how lucky are we? ) typo edit Do you know if it is possible to move this thread, as it is obviously now relevant to both Hornby and Bachmann! I also received my 60023 today, it really is stunning but unfortunately it is not without the now customary unidentifiable little part at the bottom of the packaging! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I think this thread can stay here perfectly well, but presumably the moderators will act if they think it better somewhere else. As to small parts loose in box, it seems quite common, seems most Golden Eagles have slightly crooked number plates and the usual indifferent fitting of some parts, but overall they are beautiful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 Just added nothing to the Bachmann 2016 space! But I'm still wondering about the Ivatt 4, Collett Goods, and 45xx from Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 Hi, this is my first post on here so please bare with me. I have been trying to compile a list of steam locos Hornby and Bachmann have introduced in the main range. I have been using the date first introduced in the catalogue (with the date it first appeared in brackets). This is what I have got so far, and I wondered if anyone on here could help add to it. Hornby Main Range Hornby Railroad Bachmann 2019: Princess®, Large Prairie, Peckett B2, 48DS, Terrier - 2018: Lord Nelson, J36, Duchess (streamlined)® J72®, ROD built 2-8-0 2017: Duchess (non-streamlined)®, H Class 1532 2016: Original Merchant Navy, B12®, Q6, Peckett W4 - 2015: King®, S15, J50, Radial Tank Coal Tank, 96xx, J72©, Royal Scott©, C1, H2 2014: J15, 700 Class, K1, D16, Croisi 9F V2® 2013: Star BR 8P, Hall®, P2 Stanier Mogul, Midland 1F, 64xx, E4 2012: O1, 42xx, 52xx, 72xx J11, D11, Modified Hall ®, Midland 4F, L&YR Tank, Ivatt 2MT tank© 2011: B1, LMS Fowler 2P©, LMS Fowler 4F© A1 (Tornado) B1©, Dukedog, C Class, A4©, V2 Chasis©, Midland Compound 2010: B17, 28xx®, 38xx®, L1 S&JR 7F, 3000 ROD, Midland 3F, A2 2009: Clan, Castle® O4, 82xxx, City 2008: 75xxx, Schools®, T9 Unrebuilt Patriot, 75xxx, Jubilee 2007: Rebuilt Patriot, Rebuilt Royal Scot, LMS Stanier 4P G2A 2006: Britannia®, Bulleid Rebuilt Light Pacifics®, M7® N15 Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0, 76xxx, BR 9F, Fairburn tank 2005: A1®, A4® Jinty, Hall, Ivatt 4mt 2004: Grange, A3® K3 2003: Q1, LMS Fowler 4P Tank Hughes Crab 2002: LMS 8F®, LMS Class 5® 2001: Duchess (non-streamlined)(A), Duchess (streamlined), Bulleid Unrebuilt Light Pacifics®, Princess(A) BR 4MT 2-6-4T, A1 2000: Merchant Navy, N2(A) BR 5MT, N class ®=Previously modelled but completely retooled ©=Previously modelled but new DCC compatible chassis used (A)=Previously Modelled but alterations made I found this interesting to compare how many of each locos from the big 4 have been produced, and the groups they have been produced in. Many thanks. I have added the last couple of years worth of stuff to this, as I sometimes find it useful to look back over, and maybe someone else does too! Clearly it only covers standard gauge steam stuff (my main interest), but it does unfortunately highlight the struggles Bachmann have had over the last few years! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I have added the last couple of years worth of stuff to this, as I sometimes find it useful to look back over, and maybe someone else does too! Clearly it only covers standard gauge steam stuff (my main interest), but it does unfortunately highlight the struggles Bachmann have had over the last few years! Thanks for that, it makes interesting reading! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co-tr-Paul Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Pat Hammond needs to do vol 4.....!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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