Larbert

[lmsforever]

I watched a video sometime ago about Larbert when trains from Edinburgh hauled by 37,s which completed a complex run round move before returning ,one loco sat on a spur just past the end of the up platform.The down train moved forward out the platform and the light loco moved to the end of the up platform t hen the coaches were reversed onto this loco whilst the old loco went into the siding and wait for its next duty.Maybe  this happened in steam days would be an interesting movement ,see you at Glasgow.

I watched a video sometime ago about Larbert when trains from Edinburgh hauled by 37,s which completed a complex run round move before returning ,one loco sat on a spur just past the end of the up platform.The down train moved forward out the platform and the light loco moved to the end of the up platform t hen the coaches were reversed onto this loco whilst the old loco went into the siding and wait for its next duty.Maybe  this happened in steam days would be an interesting movement ,see you at Glasgow.

[ScRSG]

Hi There,

 I made the point of emphasising 'scissors crossings' and he was sure they were still as there as per my earlier post. Having done a bit of digging myself, they definitely weren't there in 1968;

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/6920586899/in/photolist-bxxPnM

 

 He's obviously mis-understood the scissors crossover reference, understandable, given that it was 0630!!.

 

Here are a couple of pics which are tantalizingly close;

 

B1 at larbert(1).jpg

 

70009 at larbert.jpg

 

B1 and black 5 at larbert.jpg

 

76113 at larbert.jpg

 

All Copyright to JWelsh.

 

Apologies for the misunderstanding, but let me know if you need anymore pics or info...

No need to apologise, all info is gratefully received. We already have most of the photos together with others which, I suppose, copyright prevents me from posting here. I can assure you that the scissors crossovers were removed much earlier than 1968 and we seem to be narrowing it down to the very early sixties (60, 61 or 2). The flickr pic of the railbus shows it crossing the, by now, singled crossovers and this would be around that time. What fun all this research is!!

[Jamie]

Has the flatbottom rail been spotted and dated?  Another thing which, if included, would jazz up the layout's permanent way.  Plus I wondered if its installation coincided with the simplification of the crossovers. 

 

Cracking pics Gazman - I might abort my B1 re-gauging exercise and use it on Larbert.  No real need for it on my layout anyway.

[IanN]

Has the flatbottom rail been spotted and dated?  Another thing which, if included, would jazz up the layout's permanent way.  Plus I wondered if its installation coincided with the simplification of the crossovers. 

Hi Jamie

From the photos I have, the flat bottom rail appears to be restricted to four points and a panel or two of track to distance the change from Flatbottom to bullheads way from the point. The four points involved are the two at the Stirling end of the platform/centre roads, and the down facing point into the platform/centre road and the adjacent point from the down platform to the siding. All were flatbottom after the changes to the scissors. Afraid, I don't have any photos that clearly show the points before then.

 

Ian

[gazman424]

Hi Guys,

 Without being nosey, what limits are you intending to model? I always thought for a model, the Main Street overbridge at the station to the Pipe Bridge at the North end of the goods loops would be the obvious scenic breaks.

Gaz.

 

 

Hi Jamie
From the photos I have, the flat bottom rail appears to be restricted to four points and a panel or two of track to distance the change from Flatbottom to bullheads way from the point. The four points involved are the two at the Stirling end of the platform/centre roads, and the down facing point into the platform/centre road and the adjacent point from the down platform to the siding. All were flatbottom after the changes to the scissors. Afraid, I don't have any photos that clearly show the points before then.

Ian

[ScRSG]

Hi Guys,

 Without being nosey, what limits are you intending to model? I always thought for a model, the Main Street overbridge at the station to the Pipe Bridge at the North end of the goods loops would be the obvious scenic breaks.

Gaz.

 

This was another dilemma for us! We have decided that the limits at the south end would be just past where the bay platform headshunt and the kick back siding on the down line would be about right. At the other end, unfortunately, we can't incorporate all the goods loops and sidings, so the limits at that end are approximately where that tall signal with the small shunt signals on the gantry is as far as space will allow. We will have a bit of a representation of the yard with the goods shed and a couple of the other sidings and the foundry with yard crane. This will still make the layout forty feet long as we are doing it to scale. (if we had included all the goods loops up to the road bridge at the north end we would have needed nearly 70ft.!!) We are still planning what we can include at the North end on both up and down sides - we will have the up goods loop which will run parallel to the main line from the fiddle yard, and possibly a representation of the cattle dock sidings and coal yard on this side.

 

The scenic breaks are not natural breaks, but the plan is to have oblique backscenes at each end to mask the entrances to the scenic part of the layout, the South end is between an embankment so can be partially hidden by trees etc. , but the North end is not so easy - more thought required yet!

Edited February 6, 2016 by ScRSG

[gazman424]

Morning All,

 The kick back siding on the down road was known as 'The Jail', as once you were put inside, you were a long time before you were allowed out!!

Here are a couple more pics;

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll be really interested to see how you get on with this, given the standard to which you built Alloa!

Gaz.

 

 

 

This was another dilemma for us! We have decided that the limits at the south end would be just past where the bay platform headshunt and the kick back siding on the down line would be about right. At the other end, unfortunately, we can't incorporate all the goods loops and sidings, so the limits at that end are approximately where that tall signal with the small shunt signals on the gantry is as far as space will allow. We will have a bit of a representation of the yard with the goods shed and a couple of the other sidings and the foundry with yard crane. This will still make the layout forty feet long as we are doing it to scale. (if we had included all the goods loops up to the road bridge at the north end we would have needed nearly 70ft.!!) We are still planning what we can include at the North end on both up and down sides - we will have the up goods loop which will run parallel to the main line from the fiddle yard, and possibly a representation of the cattle dock sidings and coal yard on this side.

 

The scenic breaks are not natural breaks, but the plan is to have oblique backscenes at each end to mask the entrances to the scenic part of the layout, the South end is between an embankment so can be partially hidden by trees etc. , but the North end is not so easy - more thought required yet!

 

[ScRSG]

 

Quote "I'll be really interested to see how you get on with this, given the standard to which you built Alloa!

Gaz."

 

 

So are We!!!!!

Edited February 6, 2016 by ScRSG

[gazman424]

Hi Guys,

Possibly a mystery solved as to when the scissors crossing were removed, thanks to the ever-excellent Signal Box site.

 

1961 with the scissors;

http://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=1127

 

1962 without;

http://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=1129

 

Hope this helps!

Gaz.

[ScRSG]

Hi Guys,

Possibly a mystery solved as to when the scissors crossing were removed, thanks to the ever-excellent Signal Box site.

 

1961 with the scissors;

http://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=1127

 

1962 without;

http://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=1129

 

Hope this helps!

Gaz.

Yes, thanks for that. We found this one too, a recent addition to their collection, Larbert South was previously missing from any search we made.

 

We are going for the 1962 version for the layout, which gives us the greatest scope for the variety of locos and stock and to include all variants for haulage of the Aberdeen expresses from Caprotti 5's to the A4's and up to some diesels, including Class 21/29, (are you listening Dapol!) We may still cheat a little with the time frame to allow the odd steam hauled locals, with Caley 439's and a couple of coaches.

 

We also prefer, from a visual and interest point of view, the arrangement of signals on the 1962 version, especially the set of signals mounted on the footbridge on the northbound roads, so another reason for choosing this layout. (not to mention the requirement NOT to build scissors crossovers on a curve!)

 

Some of the pointwork in progress can be seen on our demo. stand at the SECC next weekend. The whole layout plan (some 40ft. long) was produced by one of the group who took the time and trouble to learn Templot and build the plan from the input of the OS maps. The overall plan also allowed us to produce accurate templates for the points and crossings to be built on. Building "scale" length pointwork in OO is an interesting challenge, but it does mean that the whole of Larbert station will be built to scale!

[ScRSG]

Just an update on progress so far, the fiddle yard is complete for both trackwork and electrics. The two views of the main layout are from either end, the pointwork at one end has started to be fixed down and the rest laid roughly in position to get a sense of how it will look and to try to ensure that the "flow" will be as good as we can make it.

 

 

 

 

All the control panels are complete and the cables from them to the baseboards are in progress.

[ScRSG]

A couple of pics taken today to show the current state of progress.

 

Trackwork is progressing and although not all fixed down until we are happy with alignments. The lower picture shows the South end of the station looking towards Glasgow etc. The sheets of paper either side are the plan drawings of the platform buildings.

 

The upper picture shows, again looking South, the approaches to the station and the goods yard to the right. this whole area still has a fair bit of work to do to get the appearance right

 

At the far south end, we are just about to start mounting point motors and setting them up with the Megapoints boards which, currently, are situated within the control panel. We need to test to see if this will work with the servos over the distance to ensure no servo issues. If we get these then we will have to move the Megapoints boards under the relevant baseboard. We shall see!

[iak]

Impressive momentum gents - bravo...

[Bino]

There's some terrific images of Larbert station available on Ebay just now. lots of Gloucester 100's (might be many pictures of the same one) and a Western Region AC Railbus.

[Legend]

Looking forward to seeing this when it hits the exhibition circuit. Alloa was outstanding, I’m sure this will be too. Can I ask what the grey material is you are laying the track on?

[luckymucklebackit]

Quite sure this one will scoop the awards at Model Rail Scotland when it is exhibited.

 

Jim

[ScRSG]

Looking forward to seeing this when it hits the exhibition circuit. Alloa was outstanding, I’m sure this will be too. Can I ask what the grey material is you are laying the track on?

The underlay material is a close grained foam some 3mm thick or 1/8th in old money. We obtained a supply from a company called Paulamar. They called it "PA45", but I can't tell you whether this is a universal code for this type of foam.

It is glued down using copydex or a cheaper equivalent being carpet adhesive.

[ScRSG]

There's some terrific images of Larbert station available on Ebay just now. lots of Gloucester 100's (might be many pictures of the same one) and a Western Region AC Railbus.

Did have a quick look at these, interesting but unfortunately nearly all are outwith the period we are attempting to recreate, appreciate the heads up though!

[gazman424]

Hi Guys,

 This pic currently up for sale on eBay;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Larger-Negative-BR-British-Railways-Diesel-Loco-Class-45-D78-Larbert-1962/372203636724?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3Da31e71f9d2c94a6981a71de53a1d889b%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D362221260815%26itm%3D372203636724&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042

 

Might be of interest.

Gaz.

[DaveSignal]

I too am looking forward to the finished article!

 

I have an interest as I was Signalman at Larbert North from 1988-90. Well after your time period and well after the lines through the station were slewed to allow 70mph running through the station from the previous 40mph of the old layout. From that point I'm afraid I can't help!

It was a good job what with the Soda Ash Sidings on the Down side and the Ballast Sidings on the Up.

 

From what I can recollect some of the old Signalmen saying the centre roads weren't used for passenger trains. They all used the platform roads even the non-stop ones. (Obviously stopping ones had too!)

[ScRSG]

Just to keep you up to date, some photos taken yesterday after a good tidy up and laying the bases of the platforms.

[ScRSG]

I too am looking forward to the finished article!

 

I have an interest as I was Signalman at Larbert North from 1988-90. Well after your time period and well after the lines through the station were slewed to allow 70mph running through the station from the previous 40mph of the old layout. From that point I'm afraid I can't help!

It was a good job what with the Soda Ash Sidings on the Down side and the Ballast Sidings on the Up.

 

From what I can recollect some of the old Signalmen saying the centre roads weren't used for passenger trains. They all used the platform roads even the non-stop ones. (Obviously stopping ones had too!)

Yes, the centre roads would have been rarely used for passenger trains and were limited to 20mph, but, and isn't there always a but, we have seen video evidence of an (obviously) through express using these roads to overtake stopping trains in the platform roads, so, some good operating potential there!

[Craig Watson]

Really looking forward to seeing this, I was also a signalman in the area although a little bit further south at Larbert Junction and Carmuirs West albeit a bit later than the timeframe of the layout (93-97), it was my home station in my relief bookmarker days too, my daughter's school classroom looks out over the site of the old Larbert South signalbox now, it was the first place I took James trainspotting when he was a kid too!!

 

One of our club member's dad was one of the district inspectors at Larbert, his mum still lives in the station house, the only remaining part of the old station.

 

Craig

[ScRSG]

Just a short update to say that the first trains have finally run round the railway after, substantially, all the trackwork wiring has been completed. Surprisingly, no funny shorts were found and only a few minor running problems have been noted so far and these are/ have been attended to. I am sure there will be others, but only full testing will reveal.

 

Some of the guys will start to occupy themselves with the land forming and the start of ballasting.

 

Progress!

[Bino]

Any progress guys?