Christleton Junction - 1986 - Gateway to North Wales

[61656]

13 hours ago, G-DIMB said:

Its this and Llanbourne. For someone modelling somewhere on the North Wales coast in the period 1985-1987 they are the perfect examples from which to take inspiration. Ive done other projects over the years where i have taken inspiration from other layouts it just it varies from project to project.

I was absolutely flattered by your previous post, but to be mentioned in the same sentence as Llanbourne is like when the non-league side get drawn against Premiership opposition in the cup!
 

In tonight’s team news, we can confirm the plumber has been able to finish work early and plays in goal...

[61656]

The start of a bank holiday weekend brings a period of frantic activity to Christleton, with scores of additional trains being dispatched to the Coast. 
 

A pair of DMUs get the action going, a strengthened set on a timetabled service to Manchester, ready to return with the hordes. 
 

Two 47s wait patiently for their turn on long rakes of mk1s, nearly all second class with just a brake and a single composite for the handful of 1st class passengers. 
 

Large logo 47 is in platform 3 with an early extra from Yorkshire to Llandudno, whilst banger blue 47402 has just taken over a West Midlands to Bangor extra from an 85. 
 

Platform end talk is full of rumour about the pair of 25s waiting patiently in the middle road, with a couple of regulars certain that they’ll be filling in for a failed 47. It’s certainly unusual to have the middle road blocked with such an intensive service ahead. 
 

Meanwhile in control, the operators still have everything in hand. The regular Bangor to Red Bank empties is in platform 1, being diverted via Crewe where they’ll be attached to a Northbound set. Running them straight through means they don’t get in the way of the additional services required to change directions. 
 

It promises to be a busy day ahead for the red pens, the bacon from the Travellers Fare smells unusually tempting and there’s promise of sunshine even if the Rats don’t make it on to a passenger service!

 

 

[5BarVT]

Before your time period - my memory of North Wales in summer was in ‘72 - 8 car DMU all the way from Victoria to Bangor.  Tedious!

Paul.

[61656]

5 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Before your time period - my memory of North Wales in summer was in ‘72 - 8 car DMU all the way from Victoria to Bangor.  Tedious!

Paul.

8 and 9 car DMUs from Birmingham to North Wales still ran in 86 I think. Luckily for today’s passengers I only have 2 x 2 car, so they get the luxury of roarers and duffs!

[G-DIMB]

There is on a Youtube video a bit of footage of an all over blue 3 car 116 in July 1987 which according to my MPMs from 1986 the same 116 worked a service to Llandudnno from the Birmingham area. Something a little different if you want a DMU in a different colour.

[61656]

11 hours ago, G-DIMB said:

There is on a Youtube video a bit of footage of an all over blue 3 car 116 in July 1987 which according to my MPMs from 1986 the same 116 worked a service to Llandudnno from the Birmingham area. Something a little different if you want a DMU in a different colour.

I’ve just been looking into all blue DMU’s with the advent of the Heljan 104s, which were all blue in my period. 
 

A 116 would be a good challenge, possibly a Lima conversion, as the Bachy 117 is footballer money. 

[mallaig1983]

Have we had the prices for the Heljan 104 yet though? I’d really like a 3 car in all over blue. I don’t need one but I want one.

[G-DIMB]

I too am tempted by a 2 car blue 104 but i will wait to see what happens as indeed i dont believe a price has been set yet and its also a ready weathered model (why do they still do it). In terms of the 116 its almost certainly cheaper to get a 117 and rebuild it (although prices for even these seem to be about £50-£60 for a three car unit) but compared to carving the head codes on a Bachmann one still far cheaper!

[61656]

I’ve managed to make a start on the wall at the awkward end of platform 4. It’s a lot tighter to the fireplace than I’d like, but the rest of the layout dictated the geometry. I’ve had an SE Finecast sheet of arched plasticard hanging around for ages now; I think I bought it for the last layout to trial a retaining wall. Anyway, it goes together quite nicely, and isn’t as much of a faff to cut out as I feared. 
 

The first half arch will nearly all be covered with building, so that’s just filled with bricks. The next one is too shallow to do much with, so is a small maintenance store with the inevitable concertina door slightly ajar. The next two arches will be red star parcels and then Travellers Fare. No shortage of evocative memories and smells!

 

The half arch nearest the camera will be removed; the wall lowers slightly here with a steps down into Bluebeck Depot. 

 

I was quite concerned about scratch building and originally thought the scenics would be card kits, but I am beginning to enjoy it more than fear it!

 

It’s just loosely placed in the photo, there are a number of issues including a droopy platform to resolve. 
 

 

[ISW]

9 hours ago, 61656 said:

there are a number of issues including a droopy platform to resolve. 

Why droopy, what's the platform made from? I ask as I was thinking (planning?) to use 18mm plywood (or 12mm with a 6mm topper to get 18mm) for my platforms, which 'shouldn't' droop.

 

Ian

[61656]

30 minutes ago, ISW said:

Why droopy, what's the platform made from? I ask as I was thinking (planning?) to use 18mm plywood (or 12mm with a 6mm topper to get 18mm) for my platforms, which 'shouldn't' droop.

 

Ian

I used 18mm stripwood for the sides with frequent cross members and 0.5mm plasticard for the tops. The droopy platform in question is lacking proper support. When I built that section the fireplace was still in situ and I was really unclear about how I’d deal with it. Luckily the platform tops are only lightly secured with dots of uhu - I was very conscious of the lack of rigidity in the plasticard. 

[ISW]

6 minutes ago, 61656 said:

I used 18mm stripwood for the sides with frequent cross members and 0.5mm plasticard for the tops

The plasticard top sounds like a good plan. I was wondering how to give the top of my planned plywood a 'proper' platform surface. Thanks for that.

 

Ian

[Mol_PMB]

A week ago we were talking about trip workings - I just came across this photo on Flickr:

 

[61656]

1 hour ago, ISW said:

The plasticard top sounds like a good plan. I was wondering how to give the top of my planned plywood a 'proper' platform surface. Thanks for that.

 

Ian

My platforms are really curved, so I wasn’t sure about using solid wood. Much easier to get a nice curve with stripwood. 
 

Other than paint the black plasticard tops grey, I haven’t done anything with the platforms yet, but they are reasonably convincing of a faded tarmac. 

[61656]

51 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

A week ago we were talking about trip workings - I just came across this photo on Flickr:

 

Now that’s a train! Shows how long they must have had between services to allow that to progress. 

[61656]

On the subject of finding photos, I found this whilst researching the forthcoming 47435. Ages ago I was talking about i/c liveried mk1s in the Cardiff sets (possibly with PCM), but I don’t think we managed to find any evidence of one. 
 

Looks like the model will need the dominoes painting yellow for 1986. 
 

http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=0410020347000

[47449xeCD]

3 hours ago, 61656 said:

On the subject of finding photos, I found this whilst researching the forthcoming 47435. Ages ago I was talking about i/c liveried mk1s in the Cardiff sets (possibly with PCM), but I don’t think we managed to find any evidence of one. 
 

Looks like the model will need the dominoes painting yellow for 1986. 
 

http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=0410020347000

Assuming the caption is correct, then this may be an outlier (albeit perfectly passable to represent in model form). This turn was booked to be formed using a Pennine rake in a cyclical diagram, so normally Mk2 PVs with a Mk1 BG. 
 

(A teenager living in Colwyn Bay, this was the first train I could get out for following my paper round, and did it as many days as I could  during weekends and school holidays that year). 

Edited June 2, 2021 by 47449xeCD

[61656]

1 hour ago, 47449xeCD said:

Assuming the caption is correct, then this may be an outlier (albeit perfectly passable to represent in model form). This turn was booked to be formed using a Pennine rake in a cyclical diagram, so normally Mk2 PVs with a Mk1 BG. 
 

(A teenager living in Colwyn Bay, this was the first train I could get out for following my paper round, and did it as many days as I could  during weekends and school holidays that year). 

As it’s the only pic I’ve found of an I/C mk1 in a consist bound for North Wales in 1986 I would say it’s definitely an outlier!

 

I’d noticed most 47 hauled Cardiff services were PV sets, but hadn’t realised it was a Pennine rake (but I did know the Pennine rakes were cascaded to this route following the introduction of then Sprinters). I would assume the Pennine rake would do a Holyhead to Cardiff return between other duties, therefore on the date in question the set must have been red carded at Cardiff and the next available set used in its place. Still a fairly rare event to have a I/C mk1 at Cardiff!

 

It’s another reason I can’t decide on coach couplings.  The close coupling mechanisms look great, but being able to mix and match sets is something I want to do...

 

[ISW]

5 hours ago, 61656 said:

My platforms are really curved, so I wasn’t sure about using solid wood. Much easier to get a nice curve with stripwood. 
 

Other than paint the black plasticard tops grey, I haven’t done anything with the platforms yet, but they are reasonably convincing of a faded tarmac. 

The best description I've seen of 'how to' mark out the extent of a platform is at: 

 

Credit goes to Adrian for giving such a great explanation.

 

Ian

[mallaig1983]

1 hour ago, 61656 said:

As it’s the only pic I’ve found of an I/C mk1 in a consist bound for North Wales in 1986 I would say it’s definitely an outlier!

 

I’d noticed most 47 hauled Cardiff services were PV sets, but hadn’t realised it was a Pennine rake (but I did know the Pennine rakes were cascaded to this route following the introduction of then Sprinters). I would assume the Pennine rake would do a Holyhead to Cardiff return between other duties, therefore on the date in question the set must have been red carded at Cardiff and the next available set used in its place. Still a fairly rare event to have a I/C mk1 at Cardiff!

 

It’s another reason I can’t decide on coach couplings.  The close coupling mechanisms look great, but being able to mix and match sets is something I want to do...

 

Have you looked into the potential of the Hunt Couplings magnetic close couplings by West Hill Wagon Works? I’ve watched a few reviews on YouTube and they look impressive. They pull apart with a little bit of pressure but don’t come apart when in service. Could be the answer.

[61656]

43 minutes ago, mallaig1983 said:

Have you looked into the potential of the Hunt Couplings magnetic close couplings by West Hill Wagon Works? I’ve watched a few reviews on YouTube and they look impressive. They pull apart with a little bit of pressure but don’t come apart when in service. Could be the answer.

I have some Hornby close couplers on order which apparently pull the coaches really close and can be split in the fiddle yard. 
 

Magnets are next on my list. 
 

I am still mulling over how to use screw couplings for the locos...

[mallaig1983]

1 hour ago, 61656 said:

I have some Hornby close couplers on order which apparently pull the coaches really close and can be split in the fiddle yard. 
 

Magnets are next on my list. 
 

I am still mulling over how to use screw couplings for the locos...

Be nice if you can pull it off. Perhaps an ambition to far but good luck with it. Depends how hands on you want to be. A lot of your services will require locos coupling and uncoupling. I’m using kadee. Not very prototypical admittedly but they’re a joy to use for hands free operation.

[61656]

11 minutes ago, mallaig1983 said:

Be nice if you can pull it off. Perhaps an ambition to far but good luck with it. Depends how hands on you want to be. A lot of your services will require locos coupling and uncoupling. I’m using kadee. Not very prototypical admittedly but they’re a joy to use for hands free operation.

There’s probably a reality about coupling up under the wires as well!

 

I really like the look of a model loco with a screw coupling, but I guess if I can live with the track being 250mm too narrow I can overlook the kadees too. 

[Mol_PMB]

5 minutes ago, 61656 said:

There’s probably a reality about coupling up under the wires as well!

 

I really like the look of a model loco with a screw coupling, but I guess if I can live with the track being 250mm too narrow I can overlook the kadees too. 

'Under the wires' is a very good point, and even the most dextrous model train driver would surely snag the OHLE wires with their coupling hook on a frequent basis. On my electrified Om Swiss layout (yet to grace rmweb...) I opted for Kadees over more prototypical couplings for exactly that reason. On my current MSC layout I have chosen to include the lineside telegraph poles but omit the wires, because I am using 3-link couplings and the risk of snagging the wires is just too great. 

[47449xeCD]

6 hours ago, 61656 said:

As it’s the only pic I’ve found of an I/C mk1 in a consist bound for North Wales in 1986 I would say it’s definitely an outlier!

 

I’d noticed most 47 hauled Cardiff services were PV sets, but hadn’t realised it was a Pennine rake (but I did know the Pennine rakes were cascaded to this route following the introduction of then Sprinters). I would assume the Pennine rake would do a Holyhead to Cardiff return between other duties, therefore on the date in question the set must have been red carded at Cardiff and the next available set used in its place. Still a fairly rare event to have a I/C mk1 at Cardiff!

 

It’s another reason I can’t decide on coach couplings.  The close coupling mechanisms look great, but being able to mix and match sets is something I want to do...

 

There was a Sundays only Birmingham-Holyhead that used to turn up IC Mk1s, but can’t recall whether this was 1986 or later. 
 

Regarding mix and match, I definitely recall the odd Mk1 turning up in an otherwise air-con rake during 1985-6. Also, in a “prototype for anything” kind of way, I rode in a Manchester Pullman set on 1D66 once during that period too. Never witnessed that on any other occasion.