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Christleton Junction - 1986 - Gateway to North Wales


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With thanks to St Enodoc for the original format, I've made some progress on the Christleton working timetable. I've transferred the first couple of pages of both Passenger and Freight timetables in Up and Down directions. This takes me to circa 90 moves between midnight and 07.00, without even a whiff of a Trans-Pennine service!

 

There's a picture of the first 50 moves below. I'm trying to re-use locos and stock as far as possible, but I'll probably need to actually try it to work out if I've missed possibilities. I started colouring in services I can't yet run (the DPU), but soon gave up and just focussed on building the core timetable up. By 7am I'm onto DMU set 7 (Chester had a large DMU depot, so a lot of trains start from here), a couple of which could be EMUs to Crewe or Man Picc. Although I would need to sort EMU stabling or run them in ECS first thing. I may also run out of electric loco stabling if I want to allow all the Freightliners to change traction.

 

Blue is down, Green is up, Black is moves within station limits, and there are a few less obvious codes:

 

FYC - Fiddle Yard Crewe (etc.)

FYU - Fiddle Yard Up (i.e. the continuous run section)

DNHY - Down Holyhead (it's where locos wait to take over a Holyhead service from Euston)

CB - Christleton Bluebeck

WL - White Lane Carriage Sidings

UDT - Up Down Through

 

Most other things I think you'll work out, although I can't imagine anyone will look in any detail.

 

Probably the most obvious conclusion is that it is a good time to be a model shop owner!

 

 

19627223_WTTExtract.JPG.ef4dcef33334458e43328405000320e9.JPG

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The question is how many would be on show of the bit you model at any one time, and how many can be reused for a later service? The coaching stock could be rescued with different locos, same with the DMUs. Doing so, but having some Verity in what is on show would cut down on the amount needed.

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1 hour ago, cheesysmith said:

The question is how many would be on show of the bit you model at any one time, and how many can be reused for a later service? The coaching stock could be rescued with different locos, same with the DMUs. Doing so, but having some Verity in what is on show would cut down on the amount needed.

That's the philosophy I've used so far. Unfortunately (depending on your view point), at least 7 units leave Christleton in the morning before any come back, or in some cases trains are in the wrong fiddle yard due to the unbalanced service (4 southbound freightliners versus 1 northbound in the early hours for example).

 

I have terminal fiddle yards for Holyhead (Chester), Warrington (Mickle Trafford and Frodsham) and Crewe. There are two continuous running lines between Warrington and Crewe yards, but it looks like I need a link from Crewe to Holyhead yards to solve the problem of unbalanced freightliner and tanker trains. I'm happy to move locos between yards, but I don't want to have to move rolling stock or units. My fiddle yards are far from final, so there's still a lot of scope to adjust them to fit the timetable. 

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On 02/06/2021 at 18:14, 61656 said:

I have some Hornby close couplers on order which apparently pull the coaches really close and can be split in the fiddle yard. 

To give you an idea of how close 'really close' is:

155604546_210603R8220Close.JPG.1a77281e80e92066ee3cdc0e7ee524a0.JPG

These are Hornby MK1 with R8220 NEM Close Couplers.  I think I have read somewhere that the Roco version are slightly shorter so give a closer connection.

Paul.

Edited by 5BarVT
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15 hours ago, 61656 said:

With thanks to St Enodoc for the original format, I've made some progress on the Christleton working timetable. I've transferred the first couple of pages of both Passenger and Freight timetables in Up and Down directions. This takes me to circa 90 moves between midnight and 07.00, without even a whiff of a Trans-Pennine service!

Looks good.  Thanks for the idea of a separate colour for 'local workings', I'll be applying that to my shunt moves now. (Also with thanks to St Enodoc for the format.)

15 hours ago, 61656 said:

Most other things I think you'll work out, although I can't imagine anyone will look in any detail.

You've got me stumped on SLK for train type (description).

Paul.

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13 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Looks good.  Thanks for the idea of a separate colour for 'local workings', I'll be applying that to my shunt moves now. (Also with thanks to St Enodoc for the format.)

You've got me stumped on SLK for train type (description).

Paul.

Speedlink?

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13 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Looks good.  Thanks for the idea of a separate colour for 'local workings', I'll be applying that to my shunt moves now. (Also with thanks to St Enodoc for the format.)

You've got me stumped on SLK for train type (description).

Paul.

 

SLK possibly SpeedLinK I'm guessing

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31 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

To give you an idea of how close 'really close' is:

 

These are Hornby MK1 with R8220 NEW Close Couplers.  I think I have read somewhere that the Roco version are slightly shorter so give a closer connection.

Paul.

My intention is to use them on Bachmann coaches; I found some pictures that showed them impressively close. I should have some comparative photos up shortly.

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32 minutes ago, 61656 said:

SLK is the code for speedlink used in the WTT. Who am I to reinvent the wheel?

Thanks.  All of my paper WTT predate speedlink!

Paul.

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9 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

These are Hornby MK1 with R8220 NEW Close Couplers

Paul, does that mean there's a new version of R8220 or that they're just new to these coaches? I use the Hornby close couplers that come with the Colletts, Hawksworths and Maunsells and they couple much closer than that.

 

9 hours ago, 61656 said:

My intention is to use them on Bachmann coaches

Let us know how you get on please. I'm using the Bachmann bendy pipes at the moment but might change to Hornby/Roco.

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6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Paul, does that mean there's a new version of R8220 or that they're just new to these coaches? I use the Hornby close couplers that come with the Colletts, Hawksworths and Maunsells and they couple much closer than that.

Wretched auto correct!  Edited to NEM as originally intended.

They are new to the coaches which came with tension lock couplers.

Paul.

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On 02/06/2021 at 20:12, 61656 said:

On the subject of finding photos, I found this whilst researching the forthcoming 47435. Ages ago I was talking about i/c liveried mk1s in the Cardiff sets (possibly with PCM), but I don’t think we managed to find any evidence of one. 
 

Looks like the model will need the dominoes painting yellow for 1986. 
 

http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=0410020347000

As mentioned the  07.09 was an out and back turn worked by a 47 and Trans - Pennine rake.

Most of my stockis fitted with Kadee couplers my Bachmann MK1 sets have Kadee at each end with Bachmann short wagon couplers in between giving a nice close coupled look. I have just fitted some Hunt couplers which seen to work quite well. 

I have never seen an Inter - City MK1 in any Pompy - Bristol- Cardiff - Crewe service.

 

Cheers Peter.

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4 hours ago, P.C.M said:

As mentioned the  07.09 was an out and back turn worked by a 47 and Trans - Pennine rake.

Most of my stockis fitted with Kadee couplers my Bachmann MK1 sets have Kadee at each end with Bachmann short wagon couplers in between giving a nice close coupled look. I have just fitted some Hunt couplers which seen to work quite well. 

I have never seen an Inter - City MK1 in any Pompy - Bristol- Cardiff - Crewe service.

 

Cheers Peter.

As loco diagrams have come up, that train re-engined at Crewe on the outbound except during the period of the remodeling (when it ran round at Chester). I’ll try and dig out the diagrams when I get chance. 

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5 hours ago, P.C.M said:

As mentioned the  07.09 was an out and back turn worked by a 47 and Trans - Pennine rake.

Most of my stockis fitted with Kadee couplers my Bachmann MK1 sets have Kadee at each end with Bachmann short wagon couplers in between giving a nice close coupled look. I have just fitted some Hunt couplers which seen to work quite well. 

I have never seen an Inter - City MK1 in any Pompy - Bristol- Cardiff - Crewe service.

 

Cheers Peter.

I remember seeing a photo in a book which was taken at Shrewsbury in 1986 with a 33 on the front with an I/C mk1 in the rake. Only trouble is my dad has all my books and i cant get access at the moment but when i do i will check this out and get further detail. However it was certainly rare!

 

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14 hours ago, 47449xeCD said:

As loco diagrams have come up, that train re-engined at Crewe on the outbound except during the period of the remodeling (when it ran round at Chester). I’ll try and dig out the diagrams when I get chance. 

Sorry my bad, just checked my loco hauled travel 1986. Shows loco change at Crewe.

Cheers Peter.

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5 hours ago, P.C.M said:

Sorry my bad, just checked my loco hauled travel 1986. Shows loco change at Crewe.

Cheers Peter.

I’ve just got as far as that working in my WTT. It’s booked for a 47/4 and TP set 2 through Christleton. It will be weeks until I get as far as the return working.
 

It’s one of the few workings I actually have the right stock in the right place to run. Of course, it will have no storage space in either fiddle yard due to the 300 DMUs I don’t have!

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18 hours ago, G-DIMB said:

I remember seeing a photo in a book which was taken at Shrewsbury in 1986 with a 33 on the front with an I/C mk1 in the rake. Only trouble is my dad has all my books and i cant get access at the moment but when i do i will check this out and get further detail. However it was certainly rare!

 

All such references are welcome! I have plenty of time to wait, it’s taken me 5 years to get this far. 

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There’s not been a lot of progress of late, partly due to a number of other distractions but also due to building work on the house in the room above. One of the consequences of an old house is that the exposed beams and lath & plaster ceiling is a long way from being dust tight. The railway is therefore covered over and the room fairly out of bounds for a few weeks. 
 

The long awaited Hornby close couplings turned up this week though, so I decided to have a look at how effective they are. It was also an opportunity to get out a couple of new Bachmann mk2a TSOs, which I picked up for the princely sum of £60 for the pair. You can find reasonably priced second opens with patience! They have Scotrail branding, which I think is probably appropriate for an inter-regional set, but hardly the hardest job to remove if needed. 

 

Let’s have a look at some couplings then. First shot is two mk2a’s with standard tension lock couplings. They are actually pretty close and by far Bachmann’s best effort to date in terms of gangway gap. 

 

B71D2D4F-91DC-4BAF-B273-A2DF3C7B950B.jpeg.ad839aa6e4b0255009203bb055b7ac52.jpeg
 

Adding the Bachmann pipe close coupler closes them right up. I’m very happy with this. 
 

FCD47A2F-6ABC-4A91-B79E-B89DA16035EB.jpeg.d4163bd299546caaa07554cd4c6393ac.jpeg

 

Next up is the mk1s, which start off much further apart. This is the kind of gap we accepted in the 80’s and filled with a few metres of bath sponge. 
 

BD3CD04A-2C75-4542-80A3-DEED0FFC4B16.jpeg.9a6d049e90d1b849f9069c46c1ad96d7.jpeg
 

The Bachmann pipe coupler has never been satisfactory, although it’s quite an improvement. 
 

96450EA3-FC81-43C0-81D8-B85436E7B6E2.jpeg.2f731a5c2a514d7fb047bdcf4a9e5c1d.jpeg

 

Now we try the Hornby (R8220) couplings. An impressive result, just a little gap at the bottom of the corridor connections (something you actually get on the real thing occasionally, but a little black paper inside the gangway will improve the look).
 

C0595423-C2E3-4EC2-A483-ECA2C91646FE.jpeg.c7be32f726946a7effb58cb04bd69a4c.jpeg


So far so good. Let’s take a look now at the most disappointing mk2fs (the gangway gap is their only flaw in my view). Here we see the Bachmann pipe coupler. More than a foot between them. Even Indiana Jones would think twice. 
 

0E8DD018-0D5A-40C9-B9A5-4CC77FD2F91F.jpeg.7438370d281a3c4bbb0cafc70e806995.jpeg
 

The Hornby couplings make a big but not perfect improvement. Potentially you could fill this with foam or paper. Maybe a wagon bar coupler will pull them closer. I may have a spare somewhere that I can try. 
 

2C647609-4218-4E92-B324-91BEFB20BB6E.jpeg.40344e283ddffed29764f21bf69e0826.jpeg

 

Where the Hornby coupler does work is mk2f to mk1. Here’s the Bachmann pipe coupler. 
 

70C9DC5D-58CB-43B9-8B15-50220EA3BC6F.jpeg.92028b87ba2c4c3982da240e9df3b1fc.jpeg

 

And finally the Hornby…

 

BDE46A26-482E-44FF-AB88-0D3A132EE192.jpeg.a3d274cad3ae3a4c4ec96a0dc39414f9.jpeg

 

The verdict then is that the pipe coupler works well for mk2a’s. For mk1 to anything else, the Hornby close coupler pulls them sufficiently close. For mk2f’s, the search continues…

 

The Hornby coupler is also much, much easier to reshuffle formations in the fiddle yard. 

 

 

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Coupling epilogue: I have a spare Bachmann bar coupler from a class 101. It’s just a little too tight for the mk2f’s to couple. Here’s a photo of the relative lengths. 
 

The bar coupler is approx 14mm between stops, the Hornby 21mm and the pipe coupler around 23mm. I’d say I need something around 18-19mm between sockets. 
 

I think modifying a coupler is out of the question, as I can’t imagine a glue bonding strong enough to pull a rake of coaches. 
 

B8BE6827-621F-43E8-B1C8-1B866A8581B9.jpeg.a3228e39e5e52dd45ab3b54aaa345f1b.jpeg

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10 hours ago, 61656 said:

Let’s have a look at some couplings then.

What's the tightest radius that those 'tight couplings' will accept?

 

I can one benefit over Kadees' and that's in propelling a rake of coaches. No chance of the coupler going 'out of line' and allowing bufferlock to occur.

 

Ian

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1 hour ago, 61656 said:

I think modifying a coupler is out of the question, as I can’t imagine a glue bonding strong enough to pull a rake of coaches. 

Oh, I don't know ... You could make the cut at a shallow angle to increase the bonding length and/or splice some plasticard top/bottom to beef up the joint.

 

Ian

 

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7 hours ago, ISW said:

What's the tightest radius that those 'tight couplings' will accept?

 

I can one benefit over Kadees' and that's in propelling a rake of coaches. No chance of the coupler going 'out of line' and allowing bufferlock to occur.

 

Ian

I think this video addresses both points. A class 87 pushing a long set through 600mm radius points. There are a variety of couplings including Hornby, Bachmann pipes and tension locks. 
 

 

 

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7 hours ago, ISW said:

Oh, I don't know ... You could make the cut at a shallow angle to increase the bonding length and/or splice some plasticard top/bottom to beef up the joint.

 

Ian

 

There’s always some fool makes a suggestion like this. And an even bigger fool that gives it a go! 
 

Watch this space…

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1 hour ago, 61656 said:

I think this video addresses both points. A class 87 pushing a long set through 600mm radius points. There are a variety of couplings including Hornby, Bachmann pipes and tension locks. 

You’re not supposed to propel at that speed.

Like it!

Paul.

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