Christleton Junction - 1986 - Gateway to North Wales

[mallaig1983]

2 hours ago, 61656 said:

I think this video addresses both points. A class 87 pushing a long set through 600mm radius points. There are a variety of couplings including Hornby, Bachmann pipes and tension locks. 
 

 

 

And no DVT. Proper hardcore 

[61656]

17 minutes ago, mallaig1983 said:

And no DVT. Proper hardcore 

I feel the freedom of a man chancing life without bicycle clips!

[ISW]

On 25/06/2021 at 17:35, 61656 said:

There’s always some fool makes a suggestion like this. And an even bigger fool that gives it a go! 
 

Watch this space…

Bigger Fool,

 

Will watch with interest although, being that all my couplings are Kadee, the result(s) for me will be just academic. However, all information becomes useful at some point. The trick is to remember it.

 

Some Fool

 

[mallaig1983]

Accurascale have just announced they’re making MK2b’s. Don’t know if you’ve seen it. 

[61656]

On 26/08/2021 at 12:19, mallaig1983 said:

Accurascale have just announced they’re making MK2b’s. Don’t know if you’ve seen it. 

I was just uncovering the layout and sorting out the model railway room this weekend, following the enforced hibernation during house works, when I saw announcement on mk2bs. The pre production models look really good, although I need to see them against the Bachmann mk2as of which I have too many, to check that they won’t look out of place. 
 

As summer ends I’ve been mentally setting priorities for the railway, some more scenery and a focus on freight coming up next I think. 
 

Hopefully I’ll be recommencing operating sessions shortly and giving the first few hours of the timetable a try out. Pictures to follow!

[61656]

Right then chaps, summer’s over and it’s back to school. Questions to stretch your railway knowledge whilst you enjoy your first ale of the term will be along shortly. 
 

In the meantime it’s September ‘86, a mere 35 years ago. First move of the day is a 47 off shed making its way to the Down Holyhead to await the incoming Holyhead service. 

 

87 hauled 1D82, the 20:30 ex Euston breaks through the gloom of  Christleton south tunnel for a right time arrival at 00.02.

 

It’s a quick traction change by the lads from Bluebeck shed, with just 3 minutes allowed in the timetable (I may need to increase that!). The intercity liveried 47/4 backs down on to the set, as seen from platform 1. The 87 has been down the Warrington lines and is now coming back through the station to the electric loco stabling. This service is booked aircon stock, as you can see from the PV mk2…

 

 

With 1D82 on its way to the coast, one of countless DMU services trundles into platform 3. This is 2D29 the 23.53 service from Hooton, arriving Christleton at 0.06. Booked for an air braked DMU, a class 108 is doing the honours (I have no idea if they are air braked. Presumably an air braked set has better braking and can meet tighter timings?).

 

 

The 108 will shortly depart for White Lane carriage sidings, for overnight servicing. Meanwhile a DPU is booked to come off White Lane to platform 1 for 12 minutes for loading. As I don’t (yet) have a class 128, a class 25 and a couple of GUVs have been pressed into action. This is one of the very few DPU services still booked in 86 to have a trailing load (although I have no idea if they actually did, and running in the small hours I suspect photos are thin on the ground).

 

Anyway, White Lane to P1 is a complicated manoeuvre and involves a couple of back and forths known locally as the Christleton shuffle. The popularity of the shuffle is directly related to both overtime rate and proximity to closing time. Certainly tonight’s 25 driver seems to be wasting no time and is giving his Legomanbiffo sound system the full beans as he backs down to the Warringtons from the Up Down Through line. 
 

This will form the 00:21 4K12 Christleton to Crewe parcels service. 
 

 

Summer was just fine, but it’s good to be back. 

 

 

 

[cheesysmith]

All first gen DMUs are vac braked, only pacers and sprinters have air brakes, and being EP, incompatible with hauled stock. The DMUs can be a varied collection, as this was the years where they were falling to bits, and anything was used to keep thing running. 

[61656]

10 hours ago, cheesysmith said:

All first gen DMUs are vac braked, only pacers and sprinters have air brakes, and being EP, incompatible with hauled stock. The DMUs can be a varied collection, as this was the years where they were falling to bits, and anything was used to keep thing running. 

I suspect that means all the DMU(A) services, of which there are quite a few, should be either 156 or 142. 
 

I may try to find an earlier version of the WTT to see what they were previously. Sprinters and pacers may be accurate, but they have no place in my heart or on the railway!

[Mol_PMB]

11 minutes ago, 61656 said:

Sprinters and pacers may be accurate, but they have no place in my heart or on the railway!

I have seen a photo of a single pacer on a Holyhead-Hull working around this date. I absolutely agree, don't spoil your railway with that rubbish!

[cheesysmith]

If you are looking in the WTT, sprinters would be shown as SP, cannot remember what Pacers are shown as. DMU is shown as DMU for 1st gen units.

[61656]

38 minutes ago, cheesysmith said:

If you are looking in the WTT, sprinters would be shown as SP, cannot remember what Pacers are shown as. DMU is shown as DMU for 1st gen units.

Here’s the explanation of references at the front of the WTT:

 

 

Interestingly  there is no reference to Pacers or Sprinters, but it is the May 86 to May 87 timetable and they were certainly beginning to make inroads by then. 

 

 

[cheesysmith]

Looking at that, must be a pacer. They were mechanical gearboxes originally. Just thought that they would be shown separately as they were incompatible with any other air brakes train both coupling and having a EP braking system. They don't even have brake pipes, the through air being done between unit through the BSI coupling.

[61656]

I can’t work out if there’s any differentiation between Sprinters and Pacers, although as the early Sprinters were 150s, maybe they didn’t actually need to. It’s possible SP came in the 1987 WTTs with the introduction of the 155s and 156s. 
 

I think this is the last WTT where the new generation units were only replacing other DMUs. From late 86 the unthinkable started to happen. So we will remain time locked blissfully unaware of the future. At a station that doesn’t exist, on a line that wasn’t electrified, next to a brewery that appears to brew some pretty fine ales!

[61656]

The middle of the night is proving to be a busy time at Christleton. First of all comes a 101 on 2D49 from Manchester Vic. It will terminate in platform 3 at 00.17, before going back to White Lane sidings. 
 

This photo shows a view I don’t normally include. The 101 is coming round what will be a scenic section, the pair of electrified lines to Warrington. Behind the 101 are the six sidings of the Chester / Holyhead fiddle yard, which join the main layout front centre. Between the Chester and Warrington lines is the hole for the canal. On the left is White Lane carriage sidings; they will mainly be hidden, so that the right most line of the three can join the fiddle yard and allow an ‘infinite’ supply of DMUs. The Metcalfe buildings are just sat there whilst I work out what to do with them. 

 

Following the 101 in is 1D83, a parcels service from Warrington and down for a DPU (possibly a 127). Anyway, the locals were all surprised to find another 25 come in on a pair of GUVs. Still, there’s no way you can get from Crewe to Warrington that quickly, so it must be a coincidence. 
 

 

I’d obviously not read the script right, because the next move should have seen a 47/4 move onto the Holyheads to await the 1D84 Passenger and News from Euston. With only a 45/0 on shed with enough horses, that would have to do. 
 

The news & pass arrived behind a class 85, which after uncoupling awaits the passing of an 03 before moving away. The 03 will couple on to the rear of the train and detach a BG. 

 

 

With the 85 sorted on to the stabling point, the 45/0 backed down onto the train. It is booked 16 minutes here, presumably for unloading the papers (which must be London editions? The Manchester editions come in at 02.16). No sooner had the 45 hooked on when station pilot 08489 passes by with a rake of GUVs for loading in platform 4. 
 

 

At the other end of the station we see the two shunters waiting their next move. Doubtless their drivers are making use of the all night cafe that I need to build in one of those arches. 
 

 

With 1D84 away at 00.51, the 03 sets its BG back to White Lane, before returning to Christleton Bluebeck depot. As it passes down the holding road a blue 47 hammers through the centre line on 4E86 from Holyhead to Stratford. Some freightliners change traction here and this one may do too in the future to help balance locos!

 

Alongside the 03 to the left you can just make out a 31 and 25 on the fuel depot. The 31 moved down earlier and will shunt across to P4 to take the GUVs brought in by the jocko. That will be the 3D11 to Bangor at 01.10. 
 

 

It quietens off for a bit now, until the morning trains start picking up 49 minutes later! Think I’ll go see if they’re doing butties in the cafe yet. 

[61656]

At 01.10, a grubby class 31 gets a grubby set of vans moving on the 3D11 parcels service to Bangor. 
 

This is where having a real timetable based on an actual date gets you to think about the layout of your railway, especially the fiddle yards. This will fill the 6 Holyhead storage sidings, two of which will now have parcels rakes in them. The next requirement for a parcels set is from Warrington, so I need a way to move them between yards; I don’t mind lifting the odd loco but whole sets are a different matter. We’ll arrange a seminar session soon to discuss fiddle yards!

 

 

After the 47 minute gap (my previous suggestion of 49 minutes overlooked release of the station pilot back to Bluebeck), the Stanlow to Aberystwyth tanks rolls through the middle road. 
 

I don’t yet have all the stock required to operate the full timetable, so several services are made up of what’s currently available…

 

Ideally I’d like a set of 4 wheel and a set of bogie tanks, but it’s becoming apparent that storage space is going to be at a premium. 

 

[61656]

And so the service continues through the night. 02.46 and a large logo 47 brings 1A04 from Holyhead to Euston in. It left Holyhead at 01.15, presumably connecting with a boat from Dublin. The 47 will be replaced by AC traction in platform 1. 
 

 

There’s a DMU service at 03.00 to Manchester Vic, followed by a parcels service to Holyhead. A couple of tank trains pass through in the middle of the night, for which I probably need some bogie tanks, the Humber to Holyhead (loaded in which direction?) and the Purfleet to Bromboro (again, loaded in which direction?). 
 

At 5.01 the Warrington Arpley, 7D14, speedlink service to Llandudno comes in, needing to run round in the centre road. It often drops a couple of vans at the brewery, with the 08 helping if time demands it. Here we see a 25 snaking back onto the Down Main to get the train towards the Coast. 
 

 

There’s another lull between 5 and 6. Intercity liveried 47 612 breaks the silence and starts the hiatus of the morning. This is 5K81 the ECS from Holyhead to Crewe carriage sidings. Unusually it doesn’t change traction, but it does stop for a crew change. We see it sitting in the centre road awaiting the new driver to amble across from the mess room. 
 

 

The 47 is followed by a late running 31 on the Bletchley ECS vans, 3B05. This is booked to run ahead of the Holyhead ECS, but must have been late away from Bangor. 
 

 

Here’s the impact on the fiddle yard, with the Crewe and Warrington storage sidings all full. There’s space for another 3 roads, but the biggest issue is that I can’t easily get trains between Crewe and Holyhead. Realistically to run the timetable I need several services to be represented by the same rolling stock. Thoughts on a new fiddle yard layout will follow shortly. 
 

 

 

[cheesysmith]

The tanks would be loaded from the Humber, and don`t forget the petroleum coke hoppers that came over the Pennines. 

[5BarVT]

1 hour ago, 61656 said:

Purfleet to Bromboro (again, loaded in which direction?).

There was an oil fired power station in Bromborough so could have been loaded for that.  There was also the margarine factory that had (incoming I think) edible oil for a while so could have been that too.

I’m away from my Port Sunlight Railways book at present, do you want me to look for details when I back near it?

Paul.

[P.C.M]

Good too see the layout up and running again. The timetable running certainly adds to the interest. 

 

Which brings me to a couple of questions. I thought the van trains went to Crewe or redbank not Bletchley.I think  he Humber oil train was petroleum coke carried in hopper wagons. my freight book says loaded to Holyhead.

 

Cheers Peter.

[61656]

4 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

There was an oil fired power station in Bromborough so could have been loaded for that.  There was also the margarine factory that had (incoming I think) edible oil for a while so could have been that too.

I’m away from my Port Sunlight Railways book at present, do you want me to look for details when I back near it?

Paul.

Paul,

 

The more information the better. I’m a gluten for the detail!

 

Andy

[61656]

2 hours ago, P.C.M said:

Good too see the layout up and running again. The timetable running certainly adds to the interest. 

 

Which brings me to a couple of questions. I thought the van trains went to Crewe or redbank not Bletchley.I think  he Humber oil train was petroleum coke carried in hopper wagons. my freight book says loaded to Holyhead.

 

Cheers Peter.

There’s at least one southbound ECS working in the early hours from Bangor to Bletchley. It’s noted as being timed for 595 tonnes and vacuum braked. I haven’t worked through the WTT far enough to see when it came up. There’s also the newspaper train from Euston which surprised me. 
 

I hadn’t realised the Humber to Holyhead wasn’t tanks. Presumably they are modified HAA type hoppers? It’s just noted as COY in the WTT, meaning Company Train, which I take to mean private owner wagons rather than common user. 
 

Having the timetable has transformed operations, to the extent that I’ve almost completely stopped doing scenery! I don’t think I can operate it much quicker than real time because of how many movements there are. Chester was amazingly busy. 

[61656]

Time to discuss fiddle yards. I've never drawn a proper track plan of the whole layout before, so I had a go at knocking up something diagrammatic using Anyrail. I chose Peco code 75 for the templates, so the geometry is representative but not very accurate. The Warrington fiddle yard sidings shown in blue and green aren't fitted yet. Essentially I need the ability to make a couple of the Holyhead sidings able to link up to both the Warrington and Crewe yards. in theory this is relatively simple as there is plenty of useable space between the yards, 'below' the two track section at the entry to the Warrington yard. Practically this is much more challenging as that section is the lifting section. Now, whilst a wider lifting section is possible, it has the drawback of locking the door shut when down. With two young boys I'm not happy with the safety implications of this - at the moment if they accidentally lower the lifting section, they can still exit the room (with effort I can also get out, but it involves a lot of groaning), with a wider section here their exit would be sealed.

 

Realistically I think the solution is to make the inner two Holyhead sidings join the Warrington lines before the lifting section, although their useable length (currently loco plus 5/6 coaches) will be significantly reduced.

 

I also want to modify the inner White Lane Carriage Siding so that it is effectively a fan of DMU fiddle yard sidings, but the real thing is much tighter than the drawing suggests. I really need a curved 4 way point... 

 

 

[5BarVT]

7 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

There was also the margarine factory.

1987/88 WTT 6M16 and 6E36 were a train of 10x73tonne insulated tanks conveying edible oil from Van den Berghs Purfleet site to Bromborough.  The tanks had stainless steel heating tubes to prevent the oil from going solid!

Paul

[61656]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

1987/88 WTT 6M16 and 6E36 were a train of 10x73tonne insulated tanks conveying edible oil from Van den Berghs Purfleet site to Bromborough.  The tanks had stainless steel heating tubes to prevent the oil from going solid!

Paul

I wonder if they smelt? 
 

I think some TTAs or TEAs will suffice for the time being!

[61656]

A really good running session this evening with 61656 Senior joining me at the controls. Only a couple of photos but quite a few observations. We ran the timetable from around 6.30 to 10.30, which took about 2.5 hours. It would have been longer but a few services couldn’t run due to absence of stock. 
 

The early morning is filled with units. With only 2 available this gets a little tedious. It may be more interesting as I get a variety of units. There’s the promise of a Heljan 104 and the distant prospect of an EMU. I’m not sure if there’s much more available RTR. As the flow of units is uneven, I need a way to get from the Warrington yard to White Lane. It’s possible a cassette solution could work here. 
 

Both passenger and freightliner services are skewed around boat dockings, so a Holyhead to Crewe yard link is required. There is also quite an uneven flow of ballast workings too (currently limited to 25s on OBAs). 
 

An early Crewe to Llandudno service is booked for an aircon 100mph rake, presumably for the return leg to Euston. It ran this morning as a short set and must have shot up to Christleton behind an 87.

 

 

Finally around 9am the first rostered Peak of the day! This is the Man Vic to Bangor - a trans-pennine service that didn’t cross the pennines. Booked for a Peak the whole way, it was brought in slightly late by a 31. Just before the Peak took it out, the Point of Ayr to Oakfield sidings MGR came into the centre road. Short formed today by a 25 on one HEA… role on Cavalex! This will eventually be a pair of 20s on at least 15 HAAs. The new 56 may be too hard to resist too. 
 

 

One interesting suggestion is that having some additional through storage sidings may allow for longer MGR and F/L sets. Food for thought.