Christleton Junction - 1986 - Gateway to North Wales

[61656]

Not much to report, but the fleet of 250ml paint tins are out on a typical Saturday night possession of the Down Warringtons gluing the (now 1mm) super elevated track in place. A shortage of 250s has resulted in the big boys coming out too. 
 

 

The new Holyhead yard alignment is shown with a full compliment of stock ready to go. You really have to like Sulzers for North Wales in 86. 
 

 

The Crewe yard is similarly busy, and only one Sulzer…

 

 

There’s some space to the left of the Crewe sidings where I still need to lay the remaining Warrington sidings. I have some surplus stock and track to sell on a well known internet auction site with which I hope the purchase of the 5 points and 6 yards of track will be cost neutral. 
 

Meanwhile there’s been a little test of the electric stabling siding capacity. There are occasions when the timetable means that stabling 3 electric locos would be really handy. It appears that such a possibility exists, although it does mean the third loco will stable on the hand points. Not the end of the world. An 86 in stripey colours would fit nicely. 
 

[EuroMST]

On 13/01/2022 at 17:55, 61656 said:

I’ve made a limited amount of progress with the layout, the super super elevation has been reduced to 1mm. The tracks are currently in the process of being glued into place. 
 

With the fiddle yard configurations improved I’ve been spending some time reworking the timetable. Previously I’d got from midnight to around 08.00 before the complexity of the timetable and inflexibility of the storage yards became too big a problem. 
 

There are a number of things I’ve done that I think have made it more workable, as well as having the various fiddle yard links:

 

1. I have allocated specific fiddle yard roads for each movement. This prevents 7 trains being allocated to a 6 siding fiddle yard. 
2. The linked yards have massively reduced the volume of stock required. So far I can pretty much cover all the required moves with existing stock (so just one freightliner set, not 4!). The unit requirement is down from 13 to 5 (current fleet is just 2). One of the units could be an EMU. The real timetable has 5 units in the station together, so I can’t go below that realistically. With the Bachmann 117 and Heljan 104 that should make a nice fleet. 
3. I hadn’t previously allocated storage space to unused stock. For example the relief rake of mk1s isn’t utilised before 8am, but it still needs to live somewhere. When I ran the previous timetable trains ended up not having space to run to, the new approach looks to have solved this, at least on paper. 
4. I’ve had to do some minor alterations to sequence and timings to ensure that fiddle yard roads are freed up for incoming movements. I’ve also had to add an extra parcels service to balance the stock. 
 

Hopefully I have enough now to do a running test of the first 8 hours and confirm it works so far. After 8am it doesn’t look to get any more complex and the Up/Down balance looks ok. 
 

Watch this space for some photos and maybe even videos as I put the timetable to the test!

I have been having similar fun with my timetable. Four freightliners go in one direction, then all come back again. Luckily the track plan I am working on should have enough through roads to get away with one set too. Got two freightliner wagons so far, another six to go. Being further down the coast at Bangor I can work my timetable with three DMU and a couple of class 25 loco hauled replacements. :-)

[61656]

2 hours ago, EuroMST said:

I have been having similar fun with my timetable. Four freightliners go in one direction, then all come back again. Luckily the track plan I am working on should have enough through roads to get away with one set too. Got two freightliner wagons so far, another six to go. Being further down the coast at Bangor I can work my timetable with three DMU and a couple of class 25 loco hauled replacements. :-)

There’s a couple of against the flow freightliners in the timetable, but otherwise it looks like 4 inland in the morning and 4 back to the coast in the evening. I can’t recall if any need to reverse at Christleton, but one or two will certainly change traction - which helps with a similar but not as pronounced offset of passenger movements. 

[EuroMST]

54 minutes ago, 61656 said:

There’s a couple of against the flow freightliners in the timetable, but otherwise it looks like 4 inland in the morning and 4 back to the coast in the evening. I can’t recall if any need to reverse at Christleton, but one or two will certainly change traction - which helps with a similar but not as pronounced offset of passenger movements. 

Back in '83 the Trafford Park freightliner reversed at Christleton, not sure if it was still running in '86. The Lawley Street one I have down as a Peak all the way through, and the Stratford / Willesden one changed to electric traction at Christleton. 

 

I haven't got notes for the Crewe Basford Hall Freightliner yet. I guess that stayed on diesel traction.

 

[61656]

14 minutes ago, EuroMST said:

Back in '83 the Trafford Park freightliner reversed at Christleton, not sure if it was still running in '86. The Lawley Street one I have down as a Peak all the way through, and the Stratford / Willesden one changed to electric traction at Christleton. 

 

I haven't got notes for the Crewe Basford Hall Freightliner yet. I guess that stayed on diesel traction.

 

The Trafford Park liner is booked through to Crewe in the WTT. 

[EuroMST]

24 minutes ago, 61656 said:

The Trafford Park liner is booked through to Crewe in the WTT. 

That makes sense. It would reverse there and head up the Styal line, through Manchester Piccadilly and into Trafford Park. Another route would be from Chester up through Northwich, Altrincham, Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly.

[61656]

9 hours ago, EuroMST said:

That makes sense. It would reverse there and head up the Styal line, through Manchester Piccadilly and into Trafford Park. Another route would be from Chester up through Northwich, Altrincham, Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly.

I keep meaning to draw the wider area out properly. Every now and then I refer to my Quail maps (Railway Track Maps); they are from circa 2010, so shouldn’t be too far out, but the routes are hard to follow being split across so many pages. I’m not sure if I cut the maps out if they’ll align correctly. 

[woodenhead]

10 hours ago, EuroMST said:

That makes sense. It would reverse there and head up the Styal line, through Manchester Piccadilly and into Trafford Park. Another route would be from Chester up through Northwich, Altrincham, Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly.

The actual route was Chester-Warrington BQ-Earlestown-Manchester Vic-Phillips Park Junc-Ashburys-Gorton-Fallowfield Loop-Trafford Park.  The Fallowfied Loop closed in 1988 after the second redevelopment at Piccadilly, the loop had a final hurrah for diverted services whilst the redevelopment was being finished.   Then, the Freightliners were all diverted through Piccadilly with Holyhead services going via Crewe, which fits with the Christleton alternative world.

[EuroMST]

9 hours ago, woodenhead said:

The actual route was Chester-Warrington BQ-Earlestown-Manchester Vic-Phillips Park Junc-Ashburys-Gorton-Fallowfield Loop-Trafford Park.  The Fallowfied Loop closed in 1988 after the second redevelopment at Piccadilly, the loop had a final hurrah for diverted services whilst the redevelopment was being finished.   Then, the Freightliners were all diverted through Piccadilly with Holyhead services going via Crewe, which fits with the Christleton alternative world.

I thought they went through Warrington BQ in the early 80's. I tried looking on Google Maps last night, but that didn't help much. I should have got the proper track diagrams book out!

[woodenhead]

2 minutes ago, EuroMST said:

I thought they went through Warrington BQ in the early 80's. I tried looking on Google Maps last night, but that didn't help much. I should have got the proper track diagrams book out!

You might struggle to find all the route now as Gorton to Hyde Rd was infilled very quickly after closure and it's now built on.  Pity, the route might have been a good way for Liverpool to Manchester express services to avoid the Oxford Rd corridor or even an extension of the Metrolink as an east-west route avoiding the city centre

[EuroMST]

10 hours ago, 61656 said:

I keep meaning to draw the wider area out properly. Every now and then I refer to my Quail maps (Railway Track Maps); they are from circa 2010, so shouldn’t be too far out, but the routes are hard to follow being split across so many pages. I’m not sure if I cut the maps out if they’ll align correctly. 

I have the Quail British Rail Track Diagrams book, October 1990 edition. I just spotted Christleton Tunnel! 

[61656]

2 hours ago, EuroMST said:

I have the Quail British Rail Track Diagrams book, October 1990 edition. I just spotted Christleton Tunnel! 

It is a real place… amazing more people haven’t modelled it really!

[EuroMST]

42 minutes ago, 61656 said:

It is a real place… amazing more people haven’t modelled it really!

It's a few miles down the road from my Dad's house. I have been for a meal at The Cheshire Cat. Great pub, must be quite close to the station. 

[61656]

11 hours ago, EuroMST said:

It's a few miles down the road from my Dad's house. I have been for a meal at The Cheshire Cat. Great pub, must be quite close to the station. 

I’d not heard of the pub - but it looks like a potential model and would fit nicely with my idea to somehow incorporate the canal into the west end of the layout. 
 

Of course, you can’t model a pub without a site visit…

[Mol_PMB]

Interesting extra headlamp on this one:

 

[61656]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Interesting extra headlamp on this one:

 

What a great view. Some real inspiration for my Warrington lines exit scene. Look at the ballast colour too - did BR know nothing about airbrushing a consistent colour?

[EuroMST]

11 hours ago, 61656 said:

I’d not heard of the pub - but it looks like a potential model and would fit nicely with my idea to somehow incorporate the canal into the west end of the layout. 
 

Of course, you can’t model a pub without a site visit…

The Chesire Cat is next to the canal. Just been looking on Google Maps, didn't realise the railway goes under the canal in a tunnel. That would be cool to model!

[61656]

One of those evenings where much is planned, but in the end there was mainly just a lot of running trains! I did manage to get the White Lane sidings laid to their full length, so I can fit 4 coaches or 2 x 2car DMUs in each siding. I need one more peco point to allow another 2 car storage siding in the fiddle yard. If I can squeeze a 3 car in there then the world will be a happy place. 
 

Here’s a 25 collecting a pair of coaches from no.1 siding. The various holes in the baseboard should allow some roads and a canal to go under the railway. I could possibly get a 2 and 3 car on no. 2 siding if I curve it a little more. 

 

 

Back in the station it’s a 25 fest, with an early variant pulling in on a speedlink from Severn Tunnel junction yard - a new find from the working timetable. 

 

 

And it’s good to be running peaks again, which were the whole point of the layout originally - before I got distracted with what actually ran in 1986! Here we see a no heat peak on a summer relief service. It will hand over to some early AC traction for the journey to the Midlands. 
 

 

The timetable development continues apace too - although it’s staggeringly complicated. I’ve worked through from midnight to around 8am, with loco, stock and track allocations all sorted. From here I’ve worked out it will be simplest to copy every service from the WTT into excel and then do the stock and track allocations. Several services will need juggling to allow them to fit - MGRs both passing and reversing simultaneously is just never going to work with just one freight road for example.
 

I’ve found plenty more interesting stuff too, including that the Trafford Park liner works back via Warrington, having gone out via Crewe. There’s a bit more speedlink than I thought (I was expecting just one each way), plus several “company” trains to work out. I’ll share the destinations and origins and I’m sure someone will know. There’s around 40 different freight moves over a 24 hour period - quite a lot of movements given most of them either reverse or change traction, or both. 
 

There’s also 9D01, a one way path as far as I can see, from Llandudno Jct to Derby, for an RM&EE service. It doesn’t look to be the Crewe test train as that has a class 1 path in the passenger WTT (with return timings for both 47 and 20 haulage). I think this may be the opportunity to buy an inspection saloon and a class 46 in red & blue!

 

[mallaig1983]

I lost myself for hours on the WTT for the Mallaig extension, mainly cross referencing trains splitting and joining at Fort William added to the locomotive diagramming etc so I absolutely take

my hat off to you for the effort you’re putting in. To me a model railway is a model of a railway and therefore the timetable must be run, that’s what gets me excited. The effort you are putting in with research will just make the whole thing so real. Really enjoying watching the layout develop along side your musings on the timetable. 
Great stuff.

[5BarVT]

9 hours ago, 61656 said:

There’s also 9D01, a one way path as far as I can see, from Llandudno Jct to Derby, for an RM&EE service. It doesn’t look to be the Crewe test train as that has a class 1 path in the passenger WTT (with return timings for both 47 and 20 haulage). I think this may be the opportunity to buy an inspection saloon and a class 46 in red & blue!

I don’t think 9D01 would be an inspection saloon: I thought they were more locally based being (generally) ACE vehicles.  They wouldn’t have had regular paths and, when used, the timings would have come out through the weekly notice.  (That’s my feeling, based on how the ScR S&T saloon inspections were arranged around then.). The good news from that is that you can have one anyway!  Typical haulage for you would be a class 25.

Is 9D01 more likely to have been a stores train (Enparts)?  Did it stop off at Chester on the way to Derby?  Could an earlier leg have been from another depot?

Paul.

 

[61656]

4 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

I don’t think 9D01 would be an inspection saloon: I thought they were more locally based being (generally) ACE vehicles.  They wouldn’t have had regular paths and, when used, the timings would have come out through the weekly notice.  (That’s my feeling, based on how the ScR S&T saloon inspections were arranged around then.). The good news from that is that you can have one anyway!  Typical haulage for you would be a class 25.

Is 9D01 more likely to have been a stores train (Enparts)?  Did it stop off at Chester on the way to Derby?  Could an earlier leg have been from another depot?

Paul.

 

Can’t disagree with any of that!

 

9D01 is a complete mystery as it doesn’t seem to have any move before hand to set it up - it’s a Tuesdays only so maybe it could be cripples? It starts from Llandudno Junction, as opposed to the TC ( terminal complex) or HS (holding sidings?). It calls at Chester for nearly 2 hours, then on to Crewe. I can’t find a light engine path either, although it could be the loco off the earlier speedlink. 
 

The Crewe test train has a path everyday that goes Crewe - Llandudno - Chester South - Llandudno - Crewe, also allocated to RM&EE, but unrelated as far as I can tell. 

[61656]

So, some freight trains that I need help with consists and likely motive power (they will probably all be tanks or ballast, but we can at least try!).

 

6E36 Bromboro to Purfleet

6F34 Ellesmere Port to Bardon Hill

 

Also, likely wagons / loads to be included in speedlink services:

 

Ellesmere Port to Severn Tunnel Junction

Llandudno Junction to Walton Old Junction (Warrington Arpley, so assume usual North Wales Coast consists)

Dee Marsh to Walton Old Junction

Thanks for any help. Some DMU questions coming soon…

[Mol_PMB]

The book 'The Railways of Port Sunlight and Bromborough Port' was published in 1980 so may be a bit early for your period. However it does give some details of the inbound and outbound traffic at that time (which was a shadow of that in former years, and by then was only related to Port Sunlight, there was nothing through to Bromborough Dock or the other industries).

Incoming: a daily train bringing grain from Cambridge, and Prestwin wagons containing Fullers Earth powder from Whitehaven.

Photos show traditional BR 4-wheel grain hoppers with the rounded tops, possibly the later vac-fitted and roller bearing ones.

Outgoing: empty Grain and Prestwin wagons "...and the occasional van load of soap. However from the beginning of 1979 there has been a small upsurge in the dispatch of soap by rail with a service of air-braked vans to Gidea Park in Greater London".

The air-braked vans do not appear in any photos in the book.

A trip working ran M-F, 0740 Ellesmere Port - 0810 Port Sunlight, returning around 1645 (nominal).

 

Ellesmere Port itself handled a variety of traffics including coal in containers, oil. paper etc.

[mallaig1983]

Nuclear flasks from Valley and Trawsfynydd but obviously not daily. Also there would have been explosives from Maentwrog Road , again not daily.

[61656]

5 minutes ago, mallaig1983 said:

Nuclear flasks from Valley and Trawsfynydd but obviously not daily. Also there would have been explosives from Maentwrog Road , again not daily.

The flask trains have their own entries. Tuesdays from Sellafield to Llandudno Jct and return on Wednesdays. There are many pictures from the period of flasks in regular speedlink services, presumably when demand was above the once a week dedicated service?