WILLIAM Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 On 14/06/2011 at 20:18, ANT said: Hello All I picked up 4 of the Thames Board - Green versions at DEMU Showcase on Saturday The stanchions can be easily pulled out, or as in the case in one box one was already lose. This give me choice to model some with the centre stanchion removed as in some photos. Here is a pic Thanks SEEYA ANT I've got a few OTA wagons, both Bachmann and Hornby, and want to understand the timeframe for operating each livery/version. Included are some of the Hornby version pictured above as widely listed as being in 'Thames Board Green' livery (teal to my eyes). Having done some research however I'm struggling to find any photgraphic evidence of OTA wagons in such a colour. From what I can make out the 'Thames Board' livery was light blue and didn't included the painting of the sole bar and suspension. Some OTAs were painted, including underframe, in plain green for Shotton traffic but this appears to be a very different colour than the Hornby version. Strangely the Hornby wagons in this teal livery also have post 1998 OLE warning flashes. I've trawled through what books I have, Flickr and Paul Bartlett's excellent website but cannot find an early picture in this vibrant Hornby teal livery. Tom Smith's Volume 2 book has some pictures of OTAs from 2002 described at "faded green Thames Board livery" and that is the closest I've got but I cannot help wondering if they are faded 'Shotton' green instead. Has anyone got, or can point me to, an ideally ex-works photograph of an OTA in this Hornby teal livery please? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NINJA Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Thames Board was taken over in 1988 by the Swedish Company Iggersund Paperboard, the house colours changed from green to light blue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted September 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) Thames Board blue with underframe painted black; date is 1990 and it's ex-works and still has large "Thames Harvesting" stickers on the ends: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ota/h355E02BC#h5effb3 Reasonably ex-works blue, 1990: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ota/h355E02BC#h7f11101 This one, with the "Thames Harvesting" stickers legible, and ex-works 1986. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ota/h355E02BC#h52ba20ec Green, which became the faded sickly colour shown at the top of p.25 of Smith's book - note the solebars and underframe also in green; date is 1992 and it is clearly ex-works: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ota/h355E02BC#h4f205b9 Ex-works green, December 1991: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ota/h355E02BC#h47a4e97 In conclusion, the photos seems to suggest: Blue Thames Board/Thames Harvesting 1986-1990 Green including underframe (late?) 1991-1992. Note that these dates do not tally with the info in the post above. P.S. Hornby's green looks off - too teal-y - and none of these wagons would ever have been that clean by the time yellow warning flashes were fitted; they'd never have been cleaned in their lives. Edited September 23, 2020 by Daddyman 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLIAM Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 52 minutes ago, NINJA said: Thames Board was taken over in 1988 by the Swedish Company Iggersund Paperboard, the house colours changed from green to light blue. Thanks but this shot from 1987, and others, shows that the Thames Board livery was blue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted September 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, WILLIAM said: Thanks but this shot from 1987, and others, shows that the Thames Board livery was blue. All explained in my post above! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLIAM Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 41 minutes ago, Daddyman said: In conclusion, the photos seems to suggest: Blue Thames Board/Thames Harvesting 1986-1990 Green including underframe (late?) 1991-1992. Note that these dates do not tally with the info in the post above. P.S. Hornby's green looks off - too teal-y - and none of these wagons would ever have been that clean by the time yellow warning flashes were fitted; they'd never have been cleaned in their lives. Thanks Daddyman. So the Hornby version is supposed to 'Shotton' green not a fictitious 'Thames Board' green? As you say, in that case the Hornby base colour is way off in my eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted September 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2020 To be fair to them, the first green photo I linked to above looks quite close to Hornby's. I'm afraid I don't know where the green livery comes from. Your Shotton idea may be right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NINJA Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 If you look on the photo, the sign above the the Thames Board stencil this is the Iggesund nameplate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted September 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, NINJA said: If you look on the photo, the sign above the the Thames Board stencil this is the Iggesund nameplate. Which photo? The blue one at Crianlarich? That's the Thames Harvesting logo: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLIAM Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Daddyman said: To be fair to them, the first green photo I linked to above looks quite close to Hornby's. I'm afraid I don't know where the green livery comes from. Your Shotton idea may be right. David Ratcliffe's BR Air-Braked Wagons book p35 states "In 1992 the OTAs in traffic to Shotton began to be repainted with green ends....." and has an accompanying picture (although the underframe is not repainted). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted September 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, WILLIAM said: David Ratcliffe's BR Air-Braked Wagons book p35 states "In 1992 the OTAs in traffic to Shotton began to be repainted with green ends....." and has an accompanying picture (although the underframe is not repainted). Interesting. It's the same green, is it? Maybe they got fed up with doing the underframes green at a later date? The December 1991 repaint shown on Paul Bartlett's site must have been one of the first Shotton repaints then. Edited September 23, 2020 by Daddyman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLIAM Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Daddyman said: Interesting. It's the same green, is it? Maybe they got fed up with doing the underframes green at a later date? The December 1991 repaint shown on Paul Bartlett's site must have been one of the first Shotton repaints then. Yes, it's the same green as Paul's photos. Still think the Hornby rendition is way off but it will probably look a lot better when weathered down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted September 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2020 I think it's one of those colours that won't weather down - it fades in such a way that only a complete repaint will work. I think when I did some Cambrian kits years ago I started with LNER green, and a lot of white. I don't really model the period any more, but I imagine the likes of Realtec supply lots of transfers nowadays, meaning that a complete repaint is possible. You might just get away with some sort of white wash, but I don't think so. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 You can fade quite bright colours really effectively using weathering powders. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted September 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said: You can fade quite bright colours really effectively using weathering powders. Interesting. But will the powders then wash off when you apply the necessary enamel "muck wash" over the top? You need something that allows you to work that muck wash into all the nooks and crannies, and that resists the thinners within the wash. As said, my preference would be for a complete repaint, but a whitish enamel wash left to dry for a week or so before the muck wash goes on might work. I've also often wondered about an acrylic wash for the fading, as that would resist the enamel thinners in the muck wash. But I don't use powders so don't know how they would work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 You can fix the powders once you're happy with the finish, then you can apply other stuff over the top. Just be gentle, take your time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NINJA Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Iggesund blue, these Van's were used to bring chemical pulp to Workington. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Daddyman said: To be fair to them, the first green photo I linked to above looks quite close to Hornby's. I'm afraid I don't know where the green livery comes from. Your Shotton idea may be right. I thought the Forestry Commission had green wagons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted October 31, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2023 I don't suppose anyone has a wrecked one of these they'd like to part with, do they? I only need the body "sides" to be intact, nothing else matters. So if you have a conversion/detailing project that's gone wrong I'd be happy to hear from you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium E100 Posted October 31, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2023 On 23/09/2020 at 10:20, WILLIAM said: Thanks but this shot from 1987, and others, shows that the Thames Board livery was blue. Is that the Mexican Bean 104 in the background? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Waterton Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 6 hours ago, E100 said: Is that the Mexican Bean 104 in the background? I think that unit had a light grey roof and maroon/dark red bodyside ends. On a quick glance it looks like a pair of InterCity Mk1s but I think I can see an exhaust pipe tip (?) so that probably rules those out. Plus the red 'guttering'(?) doesn't ring true there either. Could it be another first generation DMU in one of the Strathclyde liveries? Did they get that far? I'd be interested to know, out of curiosity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Waterton Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 If you squint a bit and appreciate that colours might be a bit 'off' on an older photo*... * I prefer them being a bit 'off', gives them more atmosphere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Meerkat Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 On 31/10/2023 at 07:32, Daddyman said: I don't suppose anyone has a wrecked one of these they'd like to part with, do they? I only need the body "sides" to be intact, nothing else matters. So if you have a conversion/detailing project that's gone wrong I'd be happy to hear from you. the white poles??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 On 23/09/2020 at 16:54, Fat Controller said: I thought the Forestry Commission had green wagons? There was only the one prototype 'Forestry Commission' wagon in their dark green livery and unique stanchions/bolsters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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