Kelly Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 It should be considered really, that you cannot compare a show like ExpoEM or the Scalefour shows with the bigger commercial shows. They're very different. The likes of Warley and Ally Pally are large commercial shows that are primarily aimed at selling products by the big suppliers and the biggest collection possible across all scales and subjects. Whereas ExpoEM is much smaller in scope and has a totally different feel. The traders there complement the layouts and the feel, the small traders add a unique aspect to the show too I find, it being much easier to have a conversation with both traders and layout operators, as well as the various demonstrators there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 To expect both ends of this sort of range of traders/suppliers to have all types of payment facility and to maintain a fully up to date, all singing and dancing website is great if you want the smaller part time folk to say "Sod this, it isn't worth the bother" and the things they supply might just disappear. Well said. Just clicking the "Agree" button seems inadequate. This is despite the fact that I have called for more "traders" to have a web presence and to have a credit card facility. The important difference is that if you are expecting punters to roll up with £100's in cash (even £1000's as at some 7mm shows) then you as a trader have to be realistic. Typical loco kits can range fro £100 to £1000+ and does anyone in this day and age expect punters to turn up with that sort of folding in their pocket. £10 or even as much as £50 I have no problem with but it soon mounts up. Do they really believe that they are the only person who will be selling. Sell me a kit and I'll almost certainly want to buy the wheels and a gearbox + motor. I'll probably be stocking up on Flux, solder and odd bits of brass, and that is before I swoon over some latest item of interest. Building a website does not (sure it can) cost much, most 12 year olds are capable these days. There are alternatives to credit cards. But generally for those lower priced items I don't have a problem so much with the credit card issue as I do with the short sightedness of marketing through a simple website. I need to know the product exists long before I part with the cash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Most traders who won't take cards will take cheques (remember them?) in my experience. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Most traders who won't take cards will take cheques (remember them?) in my experience. Meanwhile, over at G W Models..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted April 29, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2016 Well said. Just clicking the "Agree" button seems inadequate. This is despite the fact that I have called for more "traders" to have a web presence and to have a credit card facility. The important difference is that if you are expecting punters to roll up with £100's in cash (even £1000's as at some 7mm shows) then you as a trader have to be realistic. Typical loco kits can range fro £100 to £1000+ and does anyone in this day and age expect punters to turn up with that sort of folding in their pocket. £10 or even as much as £50 I have no problem with but it soon mounts up. Do they really believe that they are the only person who will be selling. Sell me a kit and I'll almost certainly want to buy the wheels and a gearbox + motor. I'll probably be stocking up on Flux, solder and odd bits of brass, and that is before I swoon over some latest item of interest. Building a website does not (sure it can) cost much, most 12 year olds are capable these days. There are alternatives to credit cards. But generally for those lower priced items I don't have a problem so much with the credit card issue as I do with the short sightedness of marketing through a simple website. I need to know the product exists long before I part with the cash. I have just been to my first couple of Gauge O Guild events and the money being handed over at them made my eyes water! You are quite right about the money side at 7mm events. There was a lot of cash changing hands. People really did have bulging wallets, at least when they went in. The last time I saw that much folding money was at a bloodstock horse sales. I would certainly suggest that anybody expecting to have takings of that sort of amount is more likely to feel justified in paying the relevant fees for a card machine. To be fair, I didn't see any seller of locos and loco kits that didn't have a card machine there. When you look at the average age of some of these traders, plus the fact that some of them are very much "one man bands", they might need to find a 12 year old to set up and run a website for them. The big problem is the time involved in running a website, rather than the technical side. You usually have to have an email address and you are expected to deal with any obscure enquiry instantly. If you are running a cottage industry and you are making and selling all that you need to do to satisfy what you want to achieve, then why change? Why create a potential increase in workload and time spent administering a website when you would rather be making model railway stuff. I am in that situation myself to some degree, so I sympathise. I get all the work that I can handle via recommendations and word of mouth. Several people have told me that I should advertise my services via the internet but if I did, I couldn't possibly cope with an increase in workload and I would lose a bit of working time looking after the website, so I would actually slow down my delivery times. It is difficult for those who perhaps can't get to the shows to see and purchase products and in an ideal world, a good website with purchasing facilities would be ideal but I can really understand why some folk choose not to go down that route. Many traders, even the more specialised ones, do run card facilities and websites, so any restrictions in that area are really limited to a small number of the true "cottage industry" part timers, so I really don't think that it is a major problem. If you do make it to EXPO, I extend my invitation to come and say hello once more. I shall be behind Narrow Road, looking grey and frazzled! Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I get all the work that I can handle via recommendations and word of mouth. Several people have told me that I should advertise my services via the internet but if I did, I couldn't possibly cope with an increase in workload and I would lose a bit of working time looking after the website, so I would actually slow down my delivery times. I understand that POV entirely. The same could even be said of posting build topics on RMWeb. Something I concluded a few years ago. It takes time to set up and photograph, to add text and post on a topic let alone respond to the welcome, well intended comments. There becomes a point at which it can get in the way of actual progress. Time spent on RMWeb jumping in and out of general topics like this just takes up the odd few minutes by comparison - a natural pause in the proceedings. I do admire those who manage to keep build topic subject matter going from start to finnish. If you do make it to EXPO, I extend my invitation to come and say hello once more. I shall be behind Narrow Road, looking grey and frazzled! Tony Thanks again, I'll try to remember this time. Parking spaces permitting I'll be there early on the Saturday for a couple of hours and actually not much on the buying list this year, so will be able to absorb more from the layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 29, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 29, 2016 It is 1.25km from the station to the leisure centre, so just over half a mile. That's a relief, I was obviously taking the km scale on the map as being miles! Easy stroll then. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Under a week to go yet there is not a floor plan on the web page, I think it says coming soon, but if you are saying you are going to have something then don't leave it to the very last minute. To be fair it does not matter too much but would be good to see where wild swan books are as I will be on the stand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ullypug Posted May 8, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2016 Under a week to go yet there is not a floor plan on the web page, I think it says coming soon, but if you are saying you are going to have something then don't leave it to the very last minute. To be fair it does not matter too much but would be good to see where wild swan books are as I will be on the stand. I wouldn't expect too much from the EMGS website David. There's a lot of stuff which has been 'coming soon' for the past 12 months... It's one of the things I find frustrating and a bit embarrassing about the society I'm afraid. I don't think I'm alone in that. But I don't have the IT skills to do anything about it, so I'd better shut up!!! However, I am very much looking forward to next weekend as I'll be operating Karl Crowther's Hebble Vale, wherever it might be! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I wouldn't expect too much from the EMGS website David. There's a lot of stuff which has been 'coming soon' for the past 12 months... It's one of the things I find frustrating and a bit embarrassing about the society I'm afraid. I don't think I'm alone in that. But I don't have the IT skills to do anything about it, so I'd better shut up!!! However, I am very much looking forward to next weekend as I'll be operating Karl Crowther's Hebble Vale, wherever it might be! Practically the whole website has been "coming soon" for much longer than 12 months now..... When asked, 2 different senior members of the EMGS Board told me around 2 months ago that they were paying someone to re vamp the site......and still nothing. It is an embarrassment, worse than that, makes the Society look defunct! Such a pity, because Expo itself is always a cracking event. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 they were paying someone to re vamp the site...... Ooo! a professional job - now you really have our hopes up! Sometimes an amateurish site can be forgiven for being rough round the edges or a little late or overdue the "latest" .... but a professional site with frills and pointless feature rich over whizzed nonsense is even worse as it can show a lack of focus. It is a hobby website don't waste the money. a simple map - take a photo of the floor plan and post it as a jpg - it doesn't have to be interactive with mapped points, png layers firing off to each layout's or trader's website along with U-tube presentations of interviews with the operating teams on how they intend to spend the weekend or traders demonstrating their latest promotion. Ugh! Better still post the image here. I can't remember when I last visited the site anyway as I doubt if it has anything added since then. Once there is a reputation on the internet, it is difficult to throw it off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Practically the whole website has been "coming soon" for much longer than 12 months now...... As little as that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold melmoth Posted May 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2016 When asked, 2 different senior members of the EMGS Board told me around 2 months ago that they were paying someone to re vamp the site...... I'm not actually sure the site needs revamping - it looks ok, it's easy to navigate and, technically, it works. What it is missing is a lot of basic content. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 It's interesting that of the two 4mm finescale societies ie S4 and EMGS, it is the larger of the two, the EMGS, which has the greater problem of motivating the membership to support it. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 It's interesting that of the two 4mm finescale societies ie S4 and EMGS, it is the larger of the two, the EMGS, which has the greater problem of motivating the membership to support it. Regards An interesting observation. S4Soc claims that the proportion of its members supporting Scaleforum is low but I don't have the percentage to hand. FWIW I am a member of both societies. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 It's interesting that of the two 4mm finescale societies ie S4 and EMGS, it is the larger of the two, the EMGS, which has the greater problem of motivating the membership to support it. It was an impression I had when I was a member back in the early 2000s. Still, at least the EMGS Stores was a useful source of cheap Ultrascales at the time..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold melmoth Posted May 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2016 It's interesting that of the two 4mm finescale societies ie S4 and EMGS, it is the larger of the two, the EMGS, which has the greater problem of motivating the membership to support it. Regards Yes, and speaking as a member of EMGS (but not S4), I'd have thought that S4 was by far the larger of the two based on online 'visibility'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Yes, and speaking as a member of EMGS (but not S4), I'd have thought that S4 was by far the larger of the two based on online 'visibility'. As far as I know, they are now both very similar in membership numbers...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I think there are more Scalefour members than EM Gauge Society. I am not kidding but the Scalefour Society floats around the 1883 in number,if it goes up maybe this is to do with gauge widening! and the EM Gauge Society less maybe 1882 but who knows exactly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I think there are more Scalefour members than EM Gauge Society. I am not kidding but the Scalefour Society floats around the 1883 in number,if it goes up maybe this is to do with gauge widening! and the EM Gauge Society less maybe 1882 but who knows exactly! Latest newsletter states 1599 for EMGS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I am also a member of both Societies and the S4Society does seem much more proactive about communication with it's members though its website and forum. The EMGS doesn't have an online forum and is therefore, in my view, missing out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I am also a member of both Societies and the S4Society does seem much more proactive about communication with it's members though its website and forum. The EMGS doesn't have an online forum and is therefore, in my view, missing out. That has been very much my view really. It is a shame. I'm likely to join the S4 society at the next show I see them at I think as it looks a better fit for me in that respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 You can alsways do it online; http://www.scalefour.org/membership/join.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 .... The EMGS doesn't have an online forum and is therefore, in my view, missing out. I got the impression that they didn't really want an online Forum (or a website), and that they were quite happy running things as they were. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67195 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 As already mentioned I think the EMGS currently lack volunteers with sufficient IT knowledge to carry out the sort of on-line presence that the S4 Society has. For those who would like it I've attached a floor plan for ExpoEM. Those people exhibiting, demonstrating, trading, acting as stewards, etc. will be directed to their stand on arrival at the venue. Floor Plan.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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