Cross-Country workings onto/through the GWR with SR RTR stock?

[Dagworth]

Note particular reference to through corridors in the guide. 
 

Andi

[Nearholmer]

Yes, but that one is c1938 IIRC, how long they'd been able to make that boast I don't know. The fact they made it all suggests that the absence of corridors had been a "turn off" in the not too distant past.

[The Lurker]

There is an article on SREMG which describes interregional services (amongst other things) in 1950, which I happened to read about an hour before stumbling on this thread.

 

It says that trains could be formed of LMR, WR and SR sets or "some combination of any two, or all three, particularly on relief or excursion trains".

 

https://sremg.org.uk/RlyMag/RailwayRecorderInSouthernEngland.pdf

 

It's a little bit of a rambling article, rather like the services themselves, but it does give a great picture of the variety of motive power being used at the time. Less on the coaching stock but still a nice article.

[Christopher42]

Good afternoon, this seems to be the correct thread for my questions, I hope someone can clarify this for me.

I want to put together a representation of the Brighton/Dover/Margate to Birkenhead train as it was under Southern Railway in the 1930's. I am fairly certain that this was made up of two sections that started on the Kent coast (and may have joined at Ashford) plus a third from Eastbourne and Brighton which joined up with the other parts at Redhill before heading to Reading and Oxford on its way north.

The excellent spreadsheet produced by SREmG has three inter-regional trains made from Maunsell stock in 1929, Brighton to Cardiff (set 428), Bournemouth to Newcastle (set 458) and Bournemouth to Birkenhead (set 459).  David Gould (p. 53) writes about new coaches for these and also Order 365 coaches on the "Margate to Birkenhead through service". Neither Gould or SREmG have a set number for this train. I have been assuming that this train had the same formation as the others, BTK-CK-TK-Dining-CK-TK-BTK or similar. However the order also includes some Brake Composites which do not fit in this formation. 

Gould (p. 62) mentions set 223 working as the "through portion from Hastings and Brighton to Birkenhead" and is in the spreadsheet as BTK-CK-BTK. 

A timetable from the 1950's shows the service still running with through carriages to the coastal resorts.

Gould (p. 108) in 1960 lists 3-sets 202/3 as "Ramsgate/Hastings - Wolverhampton" and reminisces about the Margate train at Redhill with 'the delicious aromas that only a dining car can provide.' The formation then was Composite Brake - Buffet Car - Open Second, Corridor Second and Second Brake.

So my questions about 1930s -
Was the longest part of the train the one that started in Margate? Was it the same formation as the other Inter-regionals? Where did the other parts start from? Are the set numbers known?

I would be grateful if anyone could answer these for me.

[Nearholmer]

33 minutes ago, Christopher42 said:

Gould (p. 62) mentions set 223 working as the "through portion from Hastings and Brighton to Birkenhead" and is in the spreadsheet as BTK-CK-BTK. 

Based on photos of that portion in the 1930s, that sounds right - definitely only three cars.

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Christopher42 said:

Gould (p. 108) in 1960 lists 3-sets 202/3 as "Ramsgate/Hastings - Wolverhampton"

The full, year round, route to Birkenhead finished in 1959, then (seasonal I think) services ran only as far as Wolverhampton until 1964, when it ceased completely.

 

As discussed back up thread, Gould seems a bit ambiguous on some of the situation in the 1930s, so you might want to Google for photos.

 

This one is later, but the first set might well be 203 https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2900343

 

Again later, but a horsebox and what i think is a Collet coach marshalled ahead of the Maunsell set(s) ..... fascinating https://www.flickr.com/photos/31514768@N05/4169174358

 

There's a photo on the late David Hey's brilliant site, showing exactly the same formation on the southbound service at Reading later in the same Summer ............ why the dickens did a horsebox form part of the train?

 

A 1950 photo on rail-online showing set 223 at the front of a Southbound service.

 

This one shows the GWR stock of the Hastings portion, which I read as a set BTK-CK-BTK, plus some sort of strengthener https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/LBSCR-tender-locomotives/LBSCR-C2X/i-4PkRbpz/A

 

 

The trouble is, very few people could afford cameras and film in the 1930s!

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Nearholmer