Model Railway Restoration - Painting the Viaduct and Retaining Walls and Point Mods

[ess1uk]

most modern UTX i have seen are a large round metal lid on the pit either side of the tracks.

there wouldn't be room there for that style, so maybe a hollow bearer (sleeper) would be used and the cable would pass through that, or the cables would be clipped onto the sleeper (drill holes in sleeper and screw clips in)

we tend not to use orange pipe any more even if it is already there.

Tampers don't like orange pipe. 

[LongRail]

More recent Utd chambers are circular plastic with steel lids.

My guess is earlier ones would have been brick manhole type structures will try and find out.

What period are you modelling

[Chris64B]

Thanks guys! I'm modelling the 1980s.

 

Google image search throws up lots of very modern looking stuff like you describe which doesn't really seem right...

[Marcus 37]

Hi Chris

Just reading through your thread whilst I've got two hours sat at Humberston Road. There's plenty of orange UTX here mate.

 

As you can see from the last picture there can be UTX under points. Also you can have UTX from troughing to troughing. There's an example at Branston Junction. In fact there's two orange pipes side by side which carry the cables across. I'll try and get a picture next time I'm there.

Hope these are of use.

Layouts coming on great by the way.

Cheers

Marcus

[Chris64B]

Hah, great stuff Marcus, thanks! That's a lot of orange pipe!

 

As you can see from the last picture there can be UTX under points. Also you can have UTX from troughing to troughing. There's an example at Branston Junction. In fact there's two orange pipes side by side which carry the cables across. I'll try and get a picture next time I'm there.

 

Yeah that'd be great, thanks!

[LongRail]

I think you will find the orange pipe runs to individual items of equipment and does not form the main troughing route

[LongRail]

Hi Chris

Just reading through your thread whilst I've got two hours sat at Humberston Road. There's plenty of orange UTX here mate.

 

As you can see from the last picture there can be UTX under points. Also you can have UTX from troughing to troughing. There's an example at Branston Junction. In fact there's two orange pipes side by side which carry the cables across. I'll try and get a picture next time I'm there.

Hope these are of use.

Layouts coming on great by the way.

Cheers

Marcus

Marcus cant see any troughing route at all could you identify the main route

[ess1uk]

Marcus cant see any troughing route at all could you identify the main route

probably buried in the cess under ballast and veg

[Marcus 37]

Marcus cant see any troughing route at all could you identify the main route

You wouldn't. If you read my post you will see I said Branston Junction and I would take a picture next time I'm there.

This is Humberstone Road outside Leicester. At Branston the cables come out of the end of the troughing on Birmingham Curve then cross the branch then run about 30yrds in more concrete troughing to a line side cabinet.

Do you work on the railway in any capacity at all, Longrail?

[Marcus 37]

probably buried in the cess under ballast and veg

No mate. Not in this instance, though it usually is. The main cable run is along side the up & down slow to the far right hand side of the first picture. I think I've just spotted another troughing to troughing UTX at the end of Mountsorrell yard. Shall go and investigate when I'm there tomorrow night. Again it feeds just into a short length.

[phil-b259]

More recent Utd chambers are circular plastic with steel lids.

My guess is earlier ones would have been brick manhole type structures will try and find out.

What period are you modelling

 

Spot on (at least as regards to what has been used from the early 80s in Sussex).

 

Most UTX chambers are basically very similar to those you get n the road or the pavement for the utility companies to access their cables.

 

The thing is surface routed cable (across the track) is very susceptible to damage and, more importantly has to be disconnected and and moved out the way if complex p-way work is undertaken. As such having multicore signal cables (up to 48 cores in the largest cable) requiring disconnection affecting multiple pieces of kit (many of which may not be affected by the work in the case of quad track lines) is not a viable long term solution. Such cables will therefore be run in UTX and troughing routes with only the 'tail cables' running out to individual equipment being run on the surface and going through orange / yellow pipe or clipped to the sleepers (depending on date of install).

 

It should be noted that while theoretically possible BR / Railtrack / NR does not generally use signal gantries or bridges to swap the main cable route from side to side. This compares with the situation on London Underground where their approach has historically been to use elevated cable hangers and special cable bridges as opposed to UTXs (thus avoiding the issues of them filling with water / mud or collapsing) when it comes to swapping what might best be called 'system' (as opposed to individual equipment) cables from one side of the formation to the other.

[Marcus 37]

Another picture that maybe of use. To use an orange pipe or not to use an orange pipe? That is the question.......

[LongRail]

You wouldn't. If you read my post you will see I said Branston Junction and I would take a picture next time I'm there.

This is Humberstone Road outside Leicester. At Branston the cables come out of the end of the troughing on Birmingham Curve then cross the branch then run about 30yrds in more concrete troughing to a line side cabinet.

Do you work on the railway in any capacity at all, Longrail?

 

Marcus

 

Apologies I didnt phrase my question to well when I referred to the main route I was referring to the troughing route not the line itself.

I am involved in the design and construction in the railway environment, mainly stations and depots but have been involved in mainline signalling and Pway.

 

Photos were very interesting 

[LongRail]

Another picture that maybe of use. To use an orange pipe or not to use an orange pipe? That is the question.......

image.jpg

Marcus

 

Am I right in assuming the orange pipe is not under the mainline here?

 

I would suggest this is a good example of what not to do, cables on the surface is not a good idea. Interestingly the cables outside the orange pipe look quite new.

Do the cables in this photo run to individual items of equipment do the form part of containment route and enter another troughing route behind where you were standing.

 

Great photos by the way which for people who do not get to go trackside must be very useful as a reference, all too often the photos you see just do not show the track and surroundings

[Chris64B]

Thanks for your contributions everyone!

 

Keep the pictures coming Marcus - it'll be great to see one of a trough to trough connection/UTX - be it an orange pipe, or manhole etc. Well, as long as we aren't keeping you from your day job! Here's a beer to help -

Cheers, Chris

[Chris64B]

Just looking back at Dave F's fantastic photo threads at a couple of images I'd saved for reference re troughing etc - do these few show the sort of things we are after?

 

See these photos of Pilmoor with a lot of concrete troughing and some curious concrete 'boxes' with lids....http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-20th-july/page-62&do=findComment&comment=1692411

 

And these from Paddington - again lots of troughing, some appearing to run under the track and several flat concrete slabs/lids in the ballast - what are they? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-20th-july/page-119&do=findComment&comment=1864835

[Marcus 37]

Marcus

 

Apologies I didnt phrase my question to well when I referred to the main route I was referring to the troughing route not the line itself.

I am involved in the design and construction in the railway environment, mainly stations and depots but have been involved in mainline signalling and Pway.

 

Photos were very interesting

 

Hi Longrail

I guessed you probably were as you seemed to be very knowledgable . Sorry I put the answer to your question in ESS 1Uks post. The main troughing route is situated along side the up and down slow line to the far right of the picture. theres a fair few signals round the end of Humberston road as you've got 6 roads at this point all with their own signals and associated equipment. Hence it looks like the Orange ducting has been breeding.

At this point you've got up & down slow, up fast, down fast, up & down goods, reception siding and refuge siding.

I am sat here now for the next two hours. Joys of being a freight driver!!

Chris, hope this might be of help. I'm just looking here to see what Equipment the wires that run through the Orange cable ducts are supplying.

They are as follows

Ground signal

Main aspect signal

Signal post telephones

TPWS grids

AWS magnets

Hopefully that will give you a few realistic options for using them on your layout.

Cheers

Marcus

[gazman424]

Hi All,

 To clarify a couple of points;

 

A 'UTX' is basically a 'tunnel' under the track to enable a main troughing/ cable route to switch from one cess to the other. As has been eluded to, a hollow 'bearer', basically a metal channel sleeper with a removable lid is another way of doing this, although is restricted to how many cables can be accommodated.

 Orange piping and clipped down cables are generally 'Tail' cables. These are cables from Locations (Relay Cabinets) to pieces of lineside equipment, i.e. point machines, signals track, circuit connections, etc.

 These maybe routed via the troughing until adjacent to their final position, where they will leave the troughing and run via the above.

The bigger cables, Lineside cables, run between Locations, other Locations, Signal Boxes and Relay Rooms.

 Exposed cables are generally kept to a minimum to avoid accidental damage, and nefarious intentions!

If you need any other info - just ask!!

Gaz.

 

 

Hi Longrail
I guessed you probably were as you seemed to be very knowledgable . Sorry I put the answer to your question in ESS 1Uks post. The main troughing route is situated along side the up and down slow line to the far right of the picture. theres a fair few signals round the end of Humberston road as you've got 6 roads at this point all with their own signals and associated equipment. Hence it looks like the Orange ducting has been breeding.
At this point you've got up & down slow, up fast, down fast, up & down goods, reception siding and refuge siding.
I am sat here now for the next two hours. Joys of being a freight driver!!
Chris, hope this might be of help. I'm just looking here to see what Equipment the wires that run through the Orange cable ducts are supplying.
They are as follows
Ground signal
Main aspect signal
Signal post telephones
TPWS grids
AWS magnets
Hopefully that will give you a few realistic options for using them on your layout.
Cheers
Marcus

[Marcus 37]

Marcus

 

Am I right in assuming the orange pipe is not under the mainline here?

 

I would suggest this is a good example of what not to do, cables on the surface is not a good idea. Interestingly the cables outside the orange pipe look quite new.

Do the cables in this photo run to individual items of equipment do the form part of containment route and enter another troughing route behind where you were standing.

 

Great photos by the way which for people who do not get to go trackside must be very useful as a reference, all too often the photos you see just do not show the track and surroundings

Funnily enough it's not the mainline. It's a photo of Branston Junction which is where the freight only Coalville line joins the Birmingham to Derby mainline. The wires go back into about 30 yards of troughing then fan out to various equipment including a telecoms cabinet which I think was wired up to an old ground frame, that is still lurking in the bushes, which fed the long gone sidings.

Cheers

Marcus

[gazman424]

Hi All,

 Your mysterious concrete boxes are catch pits for lineside drainage, and are covered to prevent ballast and rubbish falling in and blocking them.

Gaz.

 

 

Just looking back at Dave F's fantastic photo threads at a couple of images I'd saved for reference re troughing etc - do these few show the sort of things we are after?

 

See these photos of Pilmoor with a lot of concrete troughing and some curious concrete 'boxes' with lids....http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-20th-july/page-62&do=findComment&comment=1692411

 

And these from Paddington - again lots of troughing, some appearing to run under the track and several flat concrete slabs/lids in the ballast - what are they? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-20th-july/page-119&do=findComment&comment=1864835

[Marcus 37]

Hi All,

 To clarify a couple of points;

 

A 'UTX' is basically a 'tunnel' under the track to enable a main troughing/ cable route to switch from one cess to the other. As has been eluded to, a hollow 'bearer', basically a metal channel sleeper with a removable lid is another way of doing this, although is restricted to how many cables can be accommodated.

 Orange piping and clipped down cables are generally 'Tail' cables. These are cables from Locations (Relay Cabinets) to pieces of lineside equipment, i.e. point machines, signals track, circuit connections, etc.

 These maybe routed via the troughing until adjacent to their final position, where they will leave the troughing and run via the above.

The bigger cables, Lineside cables, run between Locations, other Locations, Signal Boxes and Relay Rooms.

 Exposed cables are generally kept to a minimum to avoid accidental damage, and nefarious intentions!

If you need any other info - just ask!!

Gaz.

Thanks for the clarification Gaz

Having conducted tampers in the past I think UTX was just used as a sweeping generalisation about anything that crossed the track that could have potentially been chopped in half. I know exactly the ones you mean. Hollow metal sleeper with a chequer plate lid. There's a fair few of those round Nuneaton station area.

Marcus

[Chris64B]

Thanks both!

 

Marcus, that's a helpful list, I'll have a think about where some of these things might be placed - I need to start a separate thread to get some ideas and help on signalling as I'd like to put some in to give a hint of realism (but in no way has to be prototypical as it is an 8x4 roundy roundy after all) but have no idea where to start!

 

Gaz - thanks for your input, helpful stuff! Might have a go at adding some drainage features like that, should be fairly simple and add to the 'lineside look'.

 

Cheers, Chris

Edited July 21, 2016 by Chris64B

[Jaggzuk]

Hollow Sleepers, here is one from Unipart http://www.unipartrail.com/assets/j2540-hollow-sleepers-brochure-st1.pdf

 

Ok I know this is very modern situation, but it show how Hollow Sleepers can be used; seen at Sandy in Bedfordshire.

 

 

 

 

[Edit: photos added]

Edited July 21, 2016 by Jaggzuk

[Chris64B]

Hollow Sleepers, here is one from Unipart http://www.unipartrail.com/assets/j2540-hollow-sleepers-brochure-st1.pdf

 

Clever stuff! Although too modern for my 80s layout I guess

[5BarVT]

Spot on (at least as regards to what has been used from the early 80s in Sussex).

 

It should be noted that while theoretically possible BR / Railtrack / NR does not generally use signal gantries or bridges to swap the main cable route from side to side.

 

 

I know of three examples: Crewe over the Manchester lines just at North Junction, Derby over the Tamworth Lines south of London Rd Junction and Edinburgh Waverley on the face of Mound tunnel (if you know where to look).

 

Clever stuff! Although too modern for my 80s layout I guess

Hollow bearers for cables are very recent (10 years max?), but orange pipe did not come in much til the late 80s. An early 80s layout probably wouldn't have any (I think it was also a regional preference so some areas went for it more than others).

 

Paul.