Stadler to supply new Merseyrail trains

[jim.snowdon]

42 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

A nice looking train but surely rather short on doors for a suburban service.

It does have the same number of doors per set as the existing trains, just divided over four shorter cars in the same space as the current three.

 

Jim

[rockershovel]

On 21/06/2018 at 06:21, Fenman said:

Strange description on that site:

 

“Liverpool, a vibrant city in the North West of the United Kingdom”

 

I can see how Liverpool is in the north west of *England*, but surely it’s firmly in the southern half of the UK?

 

More seriously: it’s fascinating to me that ultra-high-cost Switzerland is able to manufacture economically competitive trains for export. I think South Africa bought a handful of Electrostar variants, but I’m not aware of much else we’ve exported. I’m looking forward to experiencing the Stadlers myself.

 

Paul

 

Well, its North-West of the Westminster and the Chilterns, isn’t it? 

 

The Swiss know something our political class don’t, which is that wage erosion and productivity aren’t the same thing. They also know that sound, state-of-the-art design and good technical training, trumps “entrepreneurs” any day of the week. They also take the European attitude, that industries must be supported by government, and that this is the proper function of government. Hence they have viable industries without constant immigration, rather than the other way about; nor do they have a “productivity crisis” like the one which makes persistent appearances in our press. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by rockershovel

[Davexoc]

Just wondering what the, for want of a better word, Dado rail is for??

Rubbing strip for bouncing of tunnel walls perhaps....

[Phatbob]

41 minutes ago, Davexoc said:

Just wondering what the, for want of a better word, Dado rail is for??

Rubbing strip for bouncing of tunnel walls perhaps....

Merseyrail have had recent tradgic incidents of people falling down the gap between the platform edge and side of the train, resulting in loss of life.  They are consequently, very sensitive to this particular risk.  My understanding is that the "Dado rail" feature has been developed to minimise the possibility of somebody falling down the gap by making said gap as small as they can.

[DavidB-AU]

14 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

Well, its North-West of the Westminster and the Chilterns, isn’t it? 

 

 

"The North" is anywhere north of Watford, isn't it?

[newbryford]

11 minutes ago, DavidB-AU said:

 

"The North" is anywhere north of Watford, isn't it?

 

To us,  "The South" is anywhere beyond Wigan.

 

Maybe the bit between Wigan and Watford is that mythical place known as "The Midlands"?

[rockershovel]

8 hours ago, Phatbob said:

Merseyrail have had recent tradgic incidents of people falling down the gap between the platform edge and side of the train, resulting in loss of life.  They are consequently, very sensitive to this particular risk.  My understanding is that the "Dado rail" feature has been developed to minimise the possibility of somebody falling down the gap by making said gap as small as they can.

 

Cheap shell suits can be very slippery! 

 

Isn’t “The Midlands” somewhere near Leicester?

[corneliuslundie]

Well East Midlands seems to stretch from Liverpool to Norwich, according to those who write franchise specifications. But then , they are in London.

Everyone there knows that the north is anywhere beyond Hatfield.

Hat, coat, wellies . . .

Jonathan

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

Well East Midlands seems to stretch from Liverpool to Norwich, according to those who write franchise specifications. But then , they are in London.

Everyone there knows that the north is anywhere beyond Hatfield.

Hat, coat, wellies . . .

Jonathan

 

Cap, shawl, clogs...

[mpb56125]

777003 on route from Switzerland to UK.
https://railcolornews.com/2020/01/06/uk-merseyrail-no-003-including-detrainment-door/

Mark
https://mark5812.smugmug.com/
 

[Davexoc]

22 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

 

"The North" is anywhere north of Watford, isn't it?

 

North of the Watford Gap. Which is actually just north of Northampton, meaning Northampton is in the south.

They even put a motorway service area on the border, which is reputed to have been the stop-off point for many a gigging band after playing darn sarf.

Funds must have run out before they built the passport booths though.....

[corneliuslundie]

No, Watford is the wild west

Jonathan

[nightstar.train]

On 05/01/2020 at 07:58, jim.snowdon said:

It does have the same number of doors per set as the existing trains, just divided over four shorter cars in the same space as the current three.

 

Jim

 Whilst this is technically correct (the best kind of correct) the door placement is odd, really no other word for it. The outer coaches have one door roughly in the middle, and the two inner coaches have two at about 1/6 and 5/6 spacing. I know they have full width gangways so moving between the coaches will be easy, but will passengers see it that way? Or will the centre two coaches empty quickly with the outer two being much slower? Time will tell when it’s in action I suppose. 

[jim.snowdon]

Time will indeed tell, and a useful indicator may be how passengers behave on the class 345 units now that they are doing some of the Paddington - Reading services, which suffer badly from assymetrical loading. The S stock on the London Underground is similar in terms of having the wide gangways and, at least to the extent that I use it at peak periods, does appear to suffer from passengers not moving very far, if at all, along the train.

 

Jim

[rockershovel]

One thing I was interested to see in Japan, was the management of queueing, boarding and disembarking. All platforms had barriers, and most barriers had queue markings of various descriptions painted on the platform. There were also signs, and platform staff to advise on which gates and markings to use - not all trains have the same configuration. They also control platform access to limit the crowding on the platform, and the speed and efficiency at which trains were cleaned between trips, put any British operation to shame (the Japanese habit of tidiness helped considerably, but unlike U.K. the Japanese habitually take litter home with them)

 

It all worked extremely well, not least because they had managed to convey the message to the large numbers of unfamiliar tourists using the system. When the Japanese say “the train will make a brief stop”, that’s exactly what they mean! 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by rockershovel

[Zomboid]

5 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

Japanese habitually take litter home with them

I spent ages looking for a bin in Tokyo. No such thing...

 

The jubilee line has a similar queuing system to much of Japan because of the platform doors. You'd expect it to be possible to do something similar in other countries, though I wonder what kind of a mess you'd end up with on the platforms at somewhere like York where a million different train types stop. I think it's a bit more viable where you have a relatively low number of different services using a platform. (And if you get away from the major urban centres and Shinkansen they don't do the platform markings so much).

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

I spent ages looking for a bin in Tokyo. No such thing...

 

The jubilee line has a similar queuing system to much of Japan because of the platform doors. You'd expect it to be possible to do something similar in other countries, though I wonder what kind of a mess you'd end up with on the platforms at somewhere like York where a million different train types stop. I think it's a bit more viable where you have a relatively low number of different services using a platform. (And if you get away from the major urban centres and Shinkansen they don't do the platform markings so much).

 

The Japanese system is clearly much simpler than ours. However “major urban centre” in Japanese terms, is more like London than York. 

 

Kings Cross, as rebuilt, is an interesting alternative. The old queueing system, in conjunction with an operating regime by which trains would sometimes switch platforms and put the queue in the “wrong” place, was a serious problem and commuters were becoming increasingly disinclined to comply, as they lost patience under the general stress of commuting. 

 

Now passengers only only pass the barrier when the train location is known, and they can move about freely in quite a large area until that time, without the feeling of “losing their place in the queue”. 

[jim.snowdon]

3 hours ago, Zomboid said:

I spent ages looking for a bin in Tokyo. No such thing...

 

The jubilee line has a similar queuing system to much of Japan because of the platform doors. You'd expect it to be possible to do something similar in other countries, though I wonder what kind of a mess you'd end up with on the platforms at somewhere like York where a million different train types stop. I think it's a bit more viable where you have a relatively low number of different services using a platform. (And if you get away from the major urban centres and Shinkansen they don't do the platform markings so much).

The Jubilee Line queuing "system", as far as I can remember, happened spontaneously and only at the stations equipped with platform edge doors. Elsewhere on the line, including the original tunnel sections, it doesn't happen. It has its positives and negatives; neat and organised for people getting on the train, but it can be a problem for people getting off as the queues tend to block the width of the platform, obstructing the free flow. That gets added to by the way in which people tend not to move down the platform away from the entrances. The only place on the Underground system where I believe queuing works properly is the Waterloo & City Line, where NSE deliberately marked the platform. But, the W&C is one of those rare lines where everyone gets on at one end and off at the other, with no intermediate stops. Waterloo has separate boarding and alighting platforms, and the peak period alternation of platforms at Bank reduces conflicting passenger flows considerably.

Everywhere else, for regular travellers, it is a matter of learning where the best door positions are for the given length of train.

 

Jim

[rockershovel]

Nothing’s ever easy, is it? 

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Time will indeed tell, and a useful indicator may be how passengers behave on the class 345 units now that they are doing some of the Paddington - Reading services, which suffer badly from assymetrical loading. The S stock on the London Underground is similar in terms of having the wide gangways and, at least to the extent that I use it at peak periods, does appear to suffer from passengers not moving very far, if at all, along the train.

 

Jim

The only difference with the 345s from what I have seen, and my son has experienced (in both cases off-peak) is that passengers do move along trains in search of the few more comfortable seats (if they can actually find one).   Note I use the words 'more comfortable' within the context of these trains and not in relation to normal levels of comfort expected on a train. 

[big jim]

The first unit is currently sat in crewe down relief sidings ready for onward movement to Kirkdale depot

 

my job tonight has just been cancelled So I was going to try and get on the train to route refresh to bootle jn and maybe have a look at the route from there to Kirkdale (I did it a few weeks back with a 37 on a test train anyway) but it’s obviously a very sought after train to get on and there are 3 drivers on it already so I’ll give it a miss!

 

might pop down to the station later and have a look at it anyway