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LT King's Cross Mystery Tunnel


Brian Kirby
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This is the inside of maiden lane curve after all the mess was cleared up the second time around, note the far end of the tunnel is blocked off.

 

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Edited by simon b
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2 hours ago, daveyb said:

What is it being used for in the picture?

 

I stand to be corrected but I understand the York road tunnels are used as an accessway to Thameslink and for cables. Hotel curve tunnel is now part of the course of a drain or the Fleet river.

 

The white ducting in the picture looks like an air source (pumped in) as being a dead end, carbon dioxide will build up if men are working in there.

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6 hours ago, daveyb said:

What is it being used for in the picture?

 

4 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I stand to be corrected but I understand the York road tunnels are used as an accessway to Thameslink and for cables. Hotel curve tunnel is now part of the course of a drain or the Fleet river.

 

The white ducting in the picture looks like an air source (pumped in) as being a dead end, carbon dioxide will build up if men are working in there.

 

Spot on, york road is the access to the Thameslink core section whilst maiden lane isnt used for anything at present. Hotel curve houses alot of bt cables in the 2 remaining sections, and the underground ticket hall cuts through the middle of it.

 

The fleet river runs over the top of the york road tunnel, you can see the bottom of it's ribbed iron culvert when standing at the junction of the tunnels.

 

The white ducting was indeed used for pumping fresh air down the tunnels whilst the cleanup was underway, a thorough inspection of the brickwork was carried out at the same time. It has scince been removed so it's not advisable to venture down maiden lane curve due to dangerous gases.

 

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2 hours ago, simon b said:

 

 

Spot on, york road is the access to the Thameslink core section whilst maiden lane isnt used for anything at present. Hotel curve houses alot of bt cables in the 2 remaining sections, and the underground ticket hall cuts through the middle of it.

 

The fleet river runs over the top of the york road tunnel, you can see the bottom of it's ribbed iron culvert when standing at the junction of the tunnels.

 

The white ducting was indeed used for pumping fresh air down the tunnels whilst the cleanup was underway, a thorough inspection of the brickwork was carried out at the same time. It has scince been removed so it's not advisable to venture down maiden lane curve due to dangerous gases.

 

 

I didn't realise these tunnels were so deep , were they bored or cut and cover 

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On 12/08/2020 at 17:26, russ p said:

 

I didn't realise these tunnels were so deep , were they bored or cut and cover 

I think a bit of both was used, these tunnels were altered over time.

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I think that if you hunt around in the LT Museum photo archive there are photos of at least some of it being dug by cut and cover, with the whole forecourt of K+ looking like a scene from WW1, but I also think Simon may be right that not all was done that way Because there are engravings showing what I think might be mining (rather than boring) underway.


Mining is still used for really tricky bits of tunnelling, and was used a fair bit during the recent works at K+ for things like Connections between headings to make short slop-shafts. I have a feeling that Rockershovel of RMWeb May have worked on mining on the Jubilee Line Extension in the late-90s, so he is the one to ask about this stuff.

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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I've just read an ancient book on the history of the Metropolitan District Railway written pre-WW1. It mentions parts of the original Metropolitan Railway on there as the two are interconnected. It states in there there are only 2 tunnels on the Metropolitan Railway, one between high Street and Notting Hill, the other east of Kings Cross going towards Farringdon. Sadly I can't remember the names of them and have tried to refer back to the book but the index there isn't much help.

 

It says all the other "tunnels" are actually cut and cover, so technically not tunnels at all. I can't see the KX "tunnels" being anything but cut and cover as they're not too deep below ground.

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On 13/12/2017 at 15:33, Nearholmer said:

The junction alignment is clearly visible on late C19th maps. I've posted an excerpt of one before, but which thread it was in ....... really, dunno!

 

Maybe this one, if you read back through it.

 

Quicker still, here it is again. From behind the Met SC to P1&2.

post-26817-0-31747400-1513179371_thumb.png

 

01E4FDF7-E02B-413F-B651-F2AC3BAE3892.jpeg

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Looking alongside Liverpool Street Station in 2020 on the right, the ediface on the left would have been Broad Street Station! Hard to imagine that many years ago railway wagons would have run along this bit of street! Liverpool Street is behind the camera.

 

Edited by roythebus
typo
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19 minutes ago, roythebus said:

Looking alongside Liverpool Street Station in 2020 on the right, the ediface on the left would have been Broad Street Station1 Hard to imagine that many years ago railway wagons would have run along this bit of street! Liverpool Street is behind the camera.

 

Looking at the map did this run beneath broad street station but what was the purpose of it going into the street 

I see the map shows liverpool street connected to the met, were platforms 1 and 2 electrified 

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The link from Liverpool Street Met to Liverpool Street GER was not electrified, nor was the Met in those days. 

 

The road between Broad Street and Liverpool Street was in the open.

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14 minutes ago, roythebus said:

The road between Broad Street and Liverpool Street was in the 

 

I thought the Met-GE connection always ran below the street, or was there a very early period when the street was lower, and the railway crossed it on the level?

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The connection was always under the street in cut and cover tunnel. Street level was always as it it now. somewhere recently, maybe on a FB group there's a picture of the same bit of road in pre-war days and it clearly shows Broad Street on the left about 20' up in the air and the wall to Liverpool Street on the right. The railway ran along the road with wagon turntables as shown on the OS map.

 

The street level may well have been a lot lower in Roman times.

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This sort of view, but earlier? 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/25347284@N04/3637669749/

 

Or this, taken from a bit further along?

 

 

This one really is worth a look, because it shows Liverpool St Platforms 1 and 2, looking into the tunnel under the road to the Met.

 

https://nrm.printstoreonline.com/locations/liverpool-street-station-london/liverpool-street-station-great-eastern-railway-10013543.html?prodid=676

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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The picture taken off the platform is fantastic Kevin.  I wonder if it was still clear in those days , can't have been very long at all surprised you can't see light down it 

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I remember going into that tunnel whilst at work in the 00s or 10s of this century. The old canteen etc was long gone; we had a radio core site down their for LU. Later this was moved elsewhere, due to the Crossrail construction work starting.

 

Stewart

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14 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

I remember going into that tunnel whilst at work in the 00s or 10s of this century. The old canteen etc was long gone; we had a radio core site down their for LU. Later this was moved elsewhere, due to the Crossrail construction work starting.

 

Stewart

 

I take it the eastern end of it was now where some of the shops are now

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The earlier picture I saw was maybe on the BROS group on FB, I remember posting my picture from 2020 under the 1920s pic of the same bit of road.

 

The railway track along the side access road was fed by wagon turntables; those tracks ran under the station to the other side where I assume there were more wagon turntables a nd a wagon lit to the track level upstairs.

 

Maybe we ought to start another subject on Broad Street, London's neglected terminus.

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Fair points.  One partlculary element of the Broad Street site that doesn't get much attention is the large two-level Broad Street Goods Depot, to the West of the passenger station.  I'm slightly aware of this establishment because a Grandfather and a Great-Grandfather worked in and around that depot for about 50 years each.  There  is much more to dscover, I'm sure, for both the depot and the passenger stations' internal layouts, wagon turntables and lateral connections at lower level.

 

https://maps.nls.uk/view/103313324

 

 

Edited by Engineer
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For the second half of the 1960s, I worked in Worship Street (centre top of the OS map posted by the Engineer). I walked along Appold Street, Sun Street Passage, and surrounding streets. This thread has bought memories back, even though that was over 50 years ago!

At the time the goods depot at the corner of Worship and Appold Streets was in use for the single wagon containers, which were delivered on Scammel 3-wheelers. A travelling crane crossed the high level sidings and the street level, and the men hung off the hook when hoisting the containers.

At low level adjacent to Appold Street where Pindar & Primrose Streets joined, were wooden gates and track ran across those roads. I never saw the gates opened. 
The Broad Street Goods Depot building was still there and glimpses of the internal tracks could been seen - but abandoned.

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On 15/08/2020 at 12:34, keefer said:

Can't remember if I've already posted it in this thread, but a pic of Liv.St. from Joe Brown's London Rail Atlas

20200218_170659.jpg.309358ed0f53bb6717c8879aa2483406.jpg

 

Oh wow, awesome diagram!

 

I know about the Met -> GNER tunnel (where the Signal Box is now) but what are the purple lines to the right, going under the middle of LS? Is that a second tunnel?

 

Edited by faa77
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