LT King's Cross Mystery Tunnel

[Brian Kirby]

More information has come to light, thanks to some scans sent to me by Natalie in Warwickshire. A 1962 article in Railway Magazine tells us that our "mystery tunnel" was a continuation of the 1868 Widened Lines from Moorgate, sponsored by the Metropolitan Railway with the aim of extending the extra tracks to Praed St. (Paddington), and not to the LNWR. The tunnel extends to the western end of St.Pancras station (Midland Road)(as can just be made out on the map above), it was built as a statement of intent, to avoid any future blocking by the Midland, further extension was to be deferred until increasing traffic required it.

    Also of interest, is that the new west end central bay platform was not created in 1941, but some years later, it was a single track with double-sided platforms, connected to both running lines by new pointwork. The points were never connected to any form of control, just clipped and padlocked, nor were any signals ever installed, before the work was stopped. Maybe this work was cancelled at the same time that the Northern Heights plan was dropped, due to the austere times? The plan had been to terminate either trains from an extended Putney to Kensington High Street service or selected trains from Metroland. I believe the track was used later as a works siding, perhaps the two platforms still survive? Maybe they could be put back into use?     BK

[Gwiwer]

On the matter of the engraving I am satisfied that it represents the curve of the Metropolitan Railway (Circle Line) at the junctions of Maiden Land and Hotel Curves and that those are represented accurately based upon the evidence we have examined here.  The GWR and MR were jointly involved in creating the first underground railway in order to give the GWR access to the City of London; its Paddington terminus has always been somewhat out on a limb in respect of City customers which will not be fully addressed until Crossrail finally opens.

 

The GWR / BR WR was physically connected to the MR tracks at Paddington Praed Street for many years and examination of the Hammersmith route platforms adjacent to the "Bishops Road" island for GWR (the current iteration) suburban trains shows how the layout would have once looked.  Broad gauge trains did indeed run to the city.  The GWR and MR fell out and the joint and through working arrangement was short-lived.  What I cannot reconcile is only one track being illustrated dual-gauge and I am willing to accept that as artistic licence and suggest both were in fact so laid in reality.

 

The two hand-drawn sketches do a lot to clarify some misunderstandings and to add to the "professional" illustrations we have already seen so thank you Kevin for those.  My only comment would be that the "mystery tunnel" appears to take off on a slight curve but this may be a trompe l'oeil since the Met / Circle track as realigned in 1941 is sharply curved in the other direction - the stub tunnel could in fact be a straight drive.  From that point it could reasonably have been directed towards the LNWR at Camden or indeed, as Brian now suggests as a parallel relief route towards the GWR Paddington or Met at Baker Street.  If the latter however it would have been seriously disruptive as the cut-and-cover method of sub-surface tunnelling could have necessitated extensive building demolition along the north side of Euston / Marylebone Roads.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Gwiwer

[roythebus]

There is a chance evidence of the centre platforms still exist beyond the headwall of the central tunnel on the Circle Line station, the bit now used to access both platform tunnels. It may be that they've been used to create more circulating space.

 

I doubt the Circle Line could take any more traffic east of Baker Street with the Met running through to the city all day. the Widened Lines extension would have been useful these days!

Edited January 16, 2016 by roythebus

[wagonman]

On the matter of the engraving I am satisfied that it represents the curve of the Metropolitan Railway (Circle Line) at the junctions of Maiden Land and Hotel Curves and that those are represented accurately based upon the evidence we have examined here.  The GWR and MR were jointly involved in creating the first underground railway in order to give the GWR access to the City of London; its Paddington terminus has always been somewhat out on a limb in respect of City customers which will not be fully addressed until Crossrail finally opens.

 

The GWR / BR WR was physically connected to the MR tracks at Paddington Praed Street for many years and examination of the Hammersmith route platforms adjacent to the "Bishops Road" island for GWR (the current iteration) suburban trains shows how the layout would have once looked.  Broad gauge trains did indeed run to the city.  The GWR and MR fell out and the joint and through working arrangement was short-lived.  What I cannot reconcile is only one track being illustrated dual-gauge and I am willing to accept that as artistic licence and suggest both were in fact so laid in reality.

 

[snipped].

 

There was never a physical connection between the GW and Met at Praed Street – the connection was always vis Bishops's Road, indeed the H&C line was joint Met/GWR even into post-electrification days. The physical connection between the GWR/WR lines and the LT/Met lines at Paddington was only severed relatively recently, at the time of the last major remodelling. Latterly it had been used by the Acton to Smithfield goods trains which had ceased in 1962 with the closure of the Smithfield goods depot.

[Edwin_m]

I doubt the Circle Line could take any more traffic east of Baker Street with the Met running through to the city all day. the Widened Lines extension would have been useful these days!

Yes, if the extra tunnel had at least got to Baker Street then the Met could have terminated at Moorgate without touching the Circle, a definite improvement (but it would have made Thameslink impossible!). 

[Derekstuart]

Re discussion about mixed gauge on the tunnels in this location (the engraving)

 

Please see bottom picture of the following link.

 

http://www.guerrillaexploring.com/gesite/public_html/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=118:ges090-kings-x-tube&catid=52:metro&Itemid=67

[jonny777]

Some fascinating photos there. Thanks.

[The Stationmaster]

On the matter of the engraving I am satisfied that it represents the curve of the Metropolitan Railway (Circle Line) at the junctions of Maiden Land and Hotel Curves and that those are represented accurately based upon the evidence we have examined here.  The GWR and MR were jointly involved in creating the first underground railway in order to give the GWR access to the City of London; its Paddington terminus has always been somewhat out on a limb in respect of City customers which will not be fully addressed until Crossrail finally opens.

 

The GWR / BR WR was physically connected to the MR tracks at Paddington Praed Street for many years and examination of the Hammersmith route platforms adjacent to the "Bishops Road" island for GWR (the current iteration) suburban trains shows how the layout would have once looked.  Broad gauge trains did indeed run to the city.  The GWR and MR fell out and the joint and through working arrangement was short-lived.  What I cannot reconcile is only one track being illustrated dual-gauge and I am willing to accept that as artistic licence and suggest both were in fact so laid in reality.

 

The two hand-drawn sketches do a lot to clarify some misunderstandings and to add to the "professional" illustrations we have already seen so thank you Kevin for those.  My only comment would be that the "mystery tunnel" appears to take off on a slight curve but this may be a trompe l'oeil since the Met / Circle track as realigned in 1941 is sharply curved in the other direction - the stub tunnel could in fact be a straight drive.  From that point it could reasonably have been directed towards the LNWR at Camden or indeed, as Brian now suggests as a parallel relief route towards the GWR Paddington or Met at Baker Street.  If the latter however it would have been seriously disruptive as the cut-and-cover method of sub-surface tunnelling could have necessitated extensive building demolition along the north side of Euston / Marylebone Roads.

 

There was never a physical connection between the GW and Met at Praed Street – the connection was always vis Bishops's Road, indeed the H&C line was joint Met/GWR even into post-electrification days. The physical connection between the GWR/WR lines and the LT/Met lines at Paddington was only severed relatively recently, at the time of the last major remodelling. Latterly it had been used by the Acton to Smithfield goods trains which had ceased in 1962 with the closure of the Smithfield goods depot.

Following the 1930s layout changes the only passenger running connection between GWR lines and the Hammersmith & City east of Subway Junction was the double junction immediately to the west of Royal Oak station and it was then the only route available for use by passenger trains various other earlier routes having gone before then but principally when the subway (dive under) was constructed at Subway Junction.  There was also a connection much nearer Paddington station, in the vicinity of Westbourne Bridge from the Down H&C to the Down E&C Line but I can't find any Instructions relating to its use for passenger trains (unlike other ECS lines) - I don't know if this connection survived until 1967 but the one at Royal Oak was removed in that year as part of the Paddington layout alterations.

 

The 1967 alterations also saw H&C Line trains diverted to use platforms 15 & 16 while 13 & 14 were henceforth connected into the WR running lines through a series of crossovers in the Paddington station throat.

 

The Hammersmith & City (jointly owned by the GWR) technically originally made an end on junction with the GWR at Green Lane Jcn and the line from there to the centre of Bishops Road station via the subway was originally wholly owned by the GWR (together with the one to the Down side of Paddington station), from there a very short stretch was again joint after which the line was wholly owned by the Metropolitan through to (and beyond) Praed St Jcn.  Tecnhically therefore the GWR made its end on junction with the H&C and not the Met although as part of the H&C it did make an end on junction with the Met but a few hundred yards short of Praed St Jcn  although not far from Praed St itself

are

According to a Wiki source (which i can't readily check) the broad gauge was removed between Bishops Road and Farringdon Street in 1869, certainly the 1891 Service timetable indicates that most of the through trains to Farringdon Street started from narrow gauge stations such as Windsor and Uxbridge but my earlier GWR service books won't help to pin down the Wiki date as correct or otherwise

[Brian Kirby]

My information regarding the planned extension of our mystery tunnel to Praed St., actually would have meant Praed St. Junction, which is where the Hammersmith line via Bishop's Road peels off, not Praed St. station at the front of the Paddington terminus. What a shame the Metropolitan Railway never added the second "Widened Lines" tunnel between Edgware Road and the short distance to Praed St. Jct,. making it four tracks. If they had, the present day H&C service and the terminating Circle/District services could have been completely separated, thus cutting out conflicting moves between them. It's still do-able, but would cost a few bob, and close off the east end of Praed St. The Edgware Road might carry on with one of those raised street "umbrellas", like at Oxford Circus many years ago.   BK

[Brian Kirby]

Just to add to Mike The Stationmaster's interesting piece, and i'm sure he already knows about this hence his referral to only passenger lines, but there was also the goods line double track tunnel which joined the Met at the east end of Bishop's Road station, the angled formation of the junction can still probably be seen. This tunnel weaved it's way around the back of the huge GWR goods shed, which has since been demolished, hemmed in by the canal on it's northside. The other end (west) of the tunnel came out halfway down the goods yard, although a lot probably disappeared under the Westway flyover scheme. I think it was still in use until the 1960s, but I could be wrong, perhaps this deserves a separate thread, or further discussion on the parallel London tunnels thread?                BK

[Natalie]

Just to add to Mike The Stationmaster's interesting piece, and i'm sure he already knows about this hence his referral to only passenger lines, but there was also the goods line double track tunnel which joined the Met at the east end of Bishop's Road station, the angled formation of the junction can still probably be seen. This tunnel weaved it's way around the back of the huge GWR goods shed, which has since been demolished, hemmed in by the canal on it's northside. The other end (west) of the tunnel came out halfway down the goods yard, although a lot probably disappeared under the Westway flyover scheme. I think it was still in use until the 1960s, but I could be wrong, perhaps this deserves a separate thread, or further discussion on the parallel London tunnels thread?                BK

 

In all my time researching the Met I have never come across this double line goods tunnel at the east end of Bishop's Road but would like to be proved wrong. There certainly was no signalled connections between Bishop's Street and Praed St Junc.  There was a short loco spur at the east end of BishRd which was adjacent to plat 16 and essentially in tunnel. It dated from the rebuilding of Bishop's Road into Paddington Suburban in 1932-33 (can't remember date off hand sorry) and was used to hold the Met electrics that were used to take over the GWR Main Line and City trains to Aldgate and Liverpool Street until the service was suspended in 1939 as a result of WW2. It is possible that the tunnel continued beyond but without track. Is there anything in the series on Paddington station that was published in GWJ- I don't have access to my copies atm so can't check. I do have signal diagrams of the boxes - as 2 plat Bishop Road and 4 platform Paddington Suburban but both are SRS versions so I shall redraw them before I can post them. I also have a plan that was part of the Paddington resignalling scheme contract submission by SGE which has Bishop's Road as having a new powerbox- on stilts/girders- of its own rather than as subsequently happened in that a separate slide frame was put into Arrival box for the Suburban section (known as Paddington Suburban. I will try and post the relevant pics of this. Think I shall have a nose through my copy of Metropolitan Railway by Jackson and see what I can find...

[The Stationmaster]

Just to add to Mike The Stationmaster's interesting piece, and i'm sure he already knows about this hence his referral to only passenger lines, but there was also the goods line double track tunnel which joined the Met at the east end of Bishop's Road station, the angled formation of the junction can still probably be seen. This tunnel weaved it's way around the back of the huge GWR goods shed, which has since been demolished, hemmed in by the canal on it's northside. The other end (west) of the tunnel came out halfway down the goods yard, although a lot probably disappeared under the Westway flyover scheme. I think it was still in use until the 1960s, but I could be wrong, perhaps this deserves a separate thread, or further discussion on the parallel London tunnels thread?                BK

This doesn't sound quite right to me.  As far as I know the only through line(s) at Paddington Goods which was the one which went through to come out alongside the canal and it actually passed over the top of the east end of Bishops Road station/Padd Suburban on the alignment of what is now the entrance to Paddington H&C Line station and the main station's taxi rank and wouldn't have been loco worked as far as I'm aware.

 

The only Goods Avoiding Line I'm aware of was the line which deviated on the north east side at Portobello Jcn and went through Cape Horn Tunnel and round the back of Westbourne Park shed then up along the boundary to the yard outside Paddington Goods.  the section via the tunnel, also known locally as Mousehole Tunnel, was officially closed in 1906 but was used for various secretive purposes in WWII and latterly house the BRB Soil Mechanics Dept.  The route was effectively destroyed in the vicinity of the Westbourne Park shed site when Paddington New Yard was created in the 1930s.  The closure of Westbourne Park Shed immediately to the north of the reliefs, in 1906, had effectively made it redundant as the Goods Lines could then be realigned immediately north of the Reliefs.

 

Freights for the Met Line took the same route as passenger trains - through the junction at Royal Oak to access the H&Cs  and the July 1901 Service TT, which I have just consulted, shows all the Smithfield trains in both direction as passing through Westbourne Park station which wouldn't have been the case if they had gone via Cape Horn Tunnel on the Goods Avoiding Line. 

 

The angling of the tunnel wall east of the Bishops Road/Paddington Suburban was - as Natalie has said - where there was an engine siding used by Met Electrics waiting to take over through trains to the City.

[keefer]

as an aside, I wonder how the RCH RJDs help/hinder the matters in this thread? (date seems to be in the lower left corner)

 

Paddington area:

 

king's cross area:

 

(posted to Wikimedia with all the usual guff re: copyright etc)

[Nearholmer]

Natalie's post brings up the topic of trains from the GWR, direct into the City, over the Met, of which I have a dim knowledge, but no more.

 

Any possibility of more details? It would be interesting, for instance, to know what stock was used. I can imagine many purchasers of models of Met locos in both 0 and 00 being interested in good excuses to run GWR stock behind them, or to replicate Prairies (I'm guessing here) being swapped off the front. It would make a change from models of Inspired by Amersham.

 

And, at what periods did GWR locos work passenger trains direct into the City? I'm imagining 'not after electrification'.

 

Kevin

[keefer]

Derek, apologies if I sounded glib, I'm very respectful of copyright, it's just all the copy/pasting/attributing to I'm not sure of!

 

here's the 'homepage' for all the diagrams: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Railways_Junctions_Diagram_1914

 

Edited January 16, 2016 by keefer

[Derekstuart]

Hi Keefer

 

I deleted my post as I thought it might make it look like I was being critical of your comment. I didn't think anyone would have seen it. You know what it's like- type first, press enter second, think third.

 

I do think it will be out of copyright though. I know the interests of RCH did pass to BR and probably this map is probably "owned" by BR (Residuary) Ltd or similar. But I doubt anyone will want to take legal action over it anyway. It is a very interesting map though.

[keefer]

no problems Derek, I realise in trying to abbreviate the Ts&Cs surrounding such posts, I may have seemed dismissive of them.

No such intention, more like laziness on my part!

[Brian Kirby]

 

 

The only Goods Avoiding Line I'm aware of was the line which deviated on the north east side at Portobello Jcn and went through Cape Horn Tunnel and round the back of Westbourne Park shed then up along the boundary to the yard outside Paddington Goods.  the section via the tunnel, also known locally as Mousehole Tunnel, was officially closed in 1906 but was used for various secretive purposes in WWII and latterly house the BRB Soil Mechanics Dept.  The route was effectively destroyed in the vicinity of the Westbourne Park shed site when Paddington New Yard was created in the 1930s.  

Both you and Natalie could be right, the line i'm thinking of is this same line you mention branching off at Portobello Jct. at the west end, I remember seeing the disused bridge or tunnel mouth from passing trains. It would have passed through what is now Westbourne Park bus garage, which was built 20 years ago or more. I'm not totally sure of the rest of the routing, I vaguely remember seeing the relevant R.A.Cooke plan showing the route, and thought the line re-appeared at Bishop's Road? I haven't got a copy of Cooke's London plan book at present, but if anyone else has a copy, they could settle any confusion. There definitely were tracks on the northside of Bishop's Road station continuing under Bishop's Bridge Road, serving coal sidings alongside the canal, but at a higher level, although there may have been other tracks underneath?      BK

[Natalie]

Natalie's post brings up the topic of trains from the GWR, direct into the City, over the Met, of which I have a dim knowledge, but no more.

 

Any possibility of more details? It would be interesting, for instance, to know what stock was used. I can imagine many purchasers of models of Met locos in both 0 and 00 being interested in good excuses to run GWR stock behind them, or to replicate Prairies (I'm guessing here) being swapped off the front. It would make a change from models of Inspired by Amersham.

 

And, at what periods did GWR locos work passenger trains direct into the City? I'm imagining 'not after electrification'.

 

Kevin

 

Just a brief answer or the moment- I can elaborate further if you wish. This is all off the top of my head atm so apologies if I have introduced any errors inadvertently.  The GWR ran trains from such places as Windsor, Hayes and Uxbridge Vine Street to Aldgate and Liverpool Street. Because of a restricted loading gauge- height wise I believe- special stock was provided. It was marshalled into sets of 8, 9 or 10 vehicles depending on their service. These were four wheel coaches with a length of about 25ft over buffers. A characteristic feature was the round tops to the doors- as per later Met coaches and GER stock. This feature I believe stems from (James? )Holden's pen when he was 'something to do with carriages' for the GWR and was also perpetuated on his GER stock. It is said that this design was to prevent damage to the top of the door if it was opened within a tunnel. The sets were known as Main Line and City stock. They were also used on other GWR operated standard gauge services such as the Middle Circle and Aldersgate (Moorgate) to Richmond via H&C and (Hammersmith) The Grove as well as the H&C line proper. Loco wise Metro tanks with condensing gear were used. For some basic details about the stock take a look at:  http://www.gwr.org.uk/nocity.html and for some drawings and more details on GWR Short coaches at:  http://www.penrhos.me.uk/ShortCoachesIntro.shtml

 

At electrification in 1905 the stock was displaced from the H&C services but lingered on for a short period on the other services until the services were withdrawn or cut back. They did however remain on the Outer Suburban services to Aldgate. Electric loco haulage with Met locos was used from Bishop's Road eastwards, steam continuing west to there. Over the 1920s (which confirm the dates later) the 4 wheeled stock was withdrawn and replaced by new steel bogied stock in 9  6-car sets, 3 sets being articulated. The bogie sets were knowns as 'local C sets.'  Some of the redundant 4 wheels were loaned to the Met in c1920 to help out with a severe stock shortage and were used on Met services from Baker Street to Harrow and Uxbridge- these were hauled by the Met's own electric locos. Also during the 1920s the 20 original Met locos were replaced by 20 new locos (as per Heljan model...) and they took over the electric leg of the journey. In later years the service was cut back to Liverpool Street where it reversed in the bay platform. The service was a casualty of WW2 service reductions and was temporarily suspended. It was an interesting service and also provided the sight of 4 electric locos running light from Neasden to Bishop's Road each morning ready to take over up trains.

 

I have a lot of info, times etc on this service (as well as some of the other GWR operated ones) and can recommend an article by John Lewis in issue no 20 of 'Great Western Journal'. Issue 55 of the same journal has a similar article on 'Local Coach Formations and Workings' by John Copsey.

 

Hope the above helps. If you want further details then let me know  and I shall start a new topic.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Natalie

[Nearholmer]

Brilliant, Natalie.

 

So, in summary, first generation Met electric locos with four-wheelers, and second generation Met electrics with bogie stock that looks a bit like the classic B set. And, even, second generation met locos with four wheelers during the transitional period.

 

I never knew that.

 

Kevin

[Nearholmer]

Try this photo http://www.ltmcollection.org/photos/photo/photo.html?_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXSR_=iKCMwuzVfqO&IXsummary=results/results&IXsearch=Paddington&_IXFIRST_=29&IXenlarge=i000068f

 

An absolute cracker, showing a Met Camelback on the middle road at Bishops Road, having come off the front of a westbound train, and waiting to take an eastbound one.

 

Photos of the original, pre-1933 Bishops Road seem very rare, but I think that from track level it looked pretty similar to Praed Street, but with (originally) dual- gauge track, and a middle road for engine changes.

 

We have now departed from K+, so, may need to start a new thread.

 

Kevin

[Christopher125]

Re discussion about mixed gauge on the tunnels in this location (the engraving)

 

Please see bottom picture of the following link.

 

http://www.guerrillaexploring.com/gesite/public_html/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=118:ges090-kings-x-tube&catid=52:metro&Itemid=67

 

The last three photos on another page show something I've never come across before, a junction and short tunnel just south of Drayton Park on the NCL - the only other photo I can find is here:

 

I like the Junctions. by siologen, on Flickr

 

edit: this must be where the northbound NCL was diverted into a new platform at Highbury & Islington 

Edited January 19, 2016 by Christopher125

[96701]

 

The last three photos on another page show something I've never come across before, a junction and short tunnel just south of Drayton Park on the NCL - the only other photo I can find is here:

 

I like the Junctions. by siologen, on Flickr

 

edit: this must be where the northbound NCL was diverted into a new platform at Highbury & Islington 

I've actually been in there legitimately and have no idea why that short storage area is there except to say that there were many changes when the Victoria Line was built, as the illegals have discovered, they aren't all that far apart and both run from Finsbury Park and Highbury & Islington (a station that I managed to close by attempting a reset of the fire alarm panel on the NCL up platform).

[Christopher125]

I've actually been in there legitimately and have no idea why that short storage area is there except to say that there were many changes when the Victoria Line was built, as the illegals have discovered, they aren't all that far apart and both run from Finsbury Park and Highbury & Islington (a station that I managed to close by attempting a reset of the fire alarm panel on the NCL up platform).

 

I presume there's something similar south of Highbury & Islington, at the other end of the northbound NCLs diversion into a new platform - as shown on the left

Edited January 20, 2016 by Christopher125

[jamie92208]

I presume there's something similar south of Highbury & Islington, at the other end of the northbound NCLs diversion into a new platform - as shown on the left

Somewhere I've got an LT produced booklet which I think has got a diagram of the way the tunnels were altered when the Victoria Line was built. If I can find it I'll try and post it.

 

Jamie