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Coleshill (Forge Mills ) layout and stock


46256
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Driver ,wellies ,and  his mate hitching a ride. A sight seen many times by myself....crossing the Minworth Road...holding up the traffic. I first saw the spectacle whilst sitting on the back of dads moped. Dad braked and stopped, only for this little train to appear from behind the hedgerow and trees to our left,  pass in front of us and disappear with its hoppers into the hedges and trees to the right. I was about six and thought it great that someone had put a train set in the woods.

 

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Back to conventional  territory, the Bachmann rebuilt jubilee  boiler etc  left over from creating Comet, now married to the Hornby RB Patriot cab 45521 awaiting suitable motor and gears before progressing further. High level currently not trading awaiting stocks from furloughed suppliers. Rhyl nameplates in my box , to be added.

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In the temporary absence of high level, I have ordered and received a canon 16/20 and 38/1 two stage helical gearbox from Comet (wizard). Great service as always. I thought I would share my experience on assembly . The gearbox went together well. You have to solder two sets of three washers together to go either side of the first lay shaft gear.This was accomplished by cocktail stick inserted and hole in my work board (ex kitchen ....purloined from there) This allowed for the lining up before solder. The backplate for the box has two horizontal openings which fit the motor. The motor itself is not full round having two square sides...Motor and first lay shaft and gear inserted. Washers either side of first gear...worm added and very smooth running achieved. I always assemble my gearboxes and run in before any attempt to fit in chassis. I next added the axle and in this case 27 mm wheel. The motor in this configuration is too wide fouling the wheel. Motor removed and put on its side presenting its narrower profile. The renders the two openings horizontal on the backplate obsolete. There are two partially formed openings vertically on the backplate. These require opening fully to allow them to marry up with the canon screws. I found this a bit hit and miss..my first attempts meant a bind on the worm and gear. Locating the lower fixing screw is also a pain as the lay gear and shaft are in the way. Perseverance paid off and eventually achieved the excellent running experienced in the first configuration. It’s a bit chicken and egg as the first lay shaft has to be in place to determine the extent of the enlargement of the screw openings otherwise this fiddly work should be done if you want this configuration before getting to that stage. The motor and gears now running in in chassis other wheels and rods yet to be added.I had to remove a little of the top of the frames to accommodate the motor.

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The workbench...kitchen chopping board now under a different use..underside of chassis...Bachmann tender just repainted transfers and varnish as shown. I  have lost count of railmatch or humbrol varnish I have thrown away with the nozzle clogged up. This despite my best efforts...turning can upside down pressing until clear. The big can was purchased off Amazon...I think under artist supplies can thoroughly recommend, still need to turn upside down and clear spout after use. The second photo showing small amount of frame required to be removed. last photo showing the tight clearance. In hindsight if using again, as I will on my next Scot will use the gearbox extender.

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When all else fails read the instructions Comet recommend the use of their  gearbox drive extender for use with larger diameter wheels..just tried to order...out of stock..........

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  • 2 weeks later...

Drive extender now added to Rhyl..pick ups .....motor exchanged for a taff vale purchase running in before adding motion will photo to show how the other motor now sits above the drivers courtesy of the drive extender. I have also bought another box and extender for the canon to compare with the taff vale. I will record how I get on in due course

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  • 3 weeks later...

I’m working on a LMS 460 marathon..not that I need them but just for the pleasure of building. Rhyl nearly completed, now with Taff Vale motor and comet gearbox and drive extender! I had planned to put the original canon motor into a Hornby rebuilt Scot body. A comet gearbox and drive extender fitted to that motor. I was going to compare the two combinations. Wizard appear to have sold out of the Scot chassis pack. I have however a GBL black five body sent to me by John R some time ago. A Ivatt black five chassis pack ordered . In the meantime the body improved with handrails smokebox door dart added. I have recently purchased the power of the Jubilee book. I have the Wild Swan loco profile copy also...two long firebox variant bodies purchased off eBay.   

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Coincidental you should post this update today, as I've been fiddling with a couple of Bachmann LMS 4-6-0's over the weekend, an original Patriot and a Jubilee. Both ebay bargains and running fine on the manufacturers chassis, so if it ain't broke...... The chassis and motor are identical for the two, as are the wheels and balance weights.

 

However the Patriot had a none too careful previous owner, so I've had to make up various missing details. Not least soldering up some Craftsman cab and tender steps, there must be an easy way to do this and get it right, rather than a rather tortured trial and error, and sore fingers!

 

There are some interesting threads on here about marrying the different chassis to bodies to give different variants, most notably the long firebox Jubilee. I sense an interest in these fine and attractive locos could get addictive.

 

I follow in your footsteps!

 

John.

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Good Morning John yes and you can see I have to add some cab steps to my loco. I can’t remember if missing when purchased or knocked off by me and in one of my spares boxes. I think I’ve an etch probably mainly trains of different types, and after all these years, havnt found a better way of making two pieces of metal stay aligned whilst soldering. 

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The long firebox model wise,  was modelled by mainline ( Palitoy). This variant is indeed plentiful second hand, especially if a failed split chassis thus providing a source of bodies. I hadn’t taken too much notice of such matters in my earlier years...long or short firebox...a quick renumber and name many times. The wisdom of age and a desire to model more accurately, coupled with the advent of google, threads such as this and purchase of relevant reference books show up earlier errors. The short firebox type were more prevalent 

 in real life but not in terms of their model availability. I want for personal reasons a model of 45565 Victoria. My existing RTR Hong Kong will be renumbered. I have two LFB bodies of “ Western Australia” awaiting chassis. One will be Galatea...I try not to model preserved locos....but this loco was a regular on the York to Bristol working and figures prominently in Terry Essery’s account of Saltley Firing days.I first saw it at Barry scrapyard together with Leander on the day man landed on the moon July 1969


 

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45521 now finished with rear step added, pleased with the taff vale motor. Mk1 comet corridor composite sides added to mainline donor.  A lot of work to change interior layout to suit

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  • 2 weeks later...

Couldn’t resist it, a class of loco long admired, apparently at the right price..a Heljan class 47 xx night owl purchased from Olivias trains. Great service from them...

 

The model duly arrives...well packaged by the vendor....the model itself...mmmm...a thread exists on this web. I opted for the unlined black version...beautifully modelled with lots of fiddley fragile detail. No matter how I tried the tender would not stay on the track. I’ve deduced it’s the rather novel drawbar and four tender to loco wires which combine to derail it...yes back to backs all checked. Tender removed from loco and happily goes around the layout without derail whilst being pushed by my Bachmann Midland 1f. The drawbar is of a rubber like material. Loco wouldn’t go without tender so decided to sacrifice those pick ups..if an eight coupled can’t behave without those extra...and no need by me,for the chip mounting in tender either. Loco body taken apart to try and discover how to rewire to driving wheel pick ups. It is a very novel construct, the motor sits within a heavy lead tube, this in turn is covered by the plastic cab boiler etc. In addition I now have an array of fine detail to add back to the model...ok I’m not the most dexterous of people but I defy anyone not to dislodge some of the detail even with the minimum handling required if servicing. The solution in the end I soldered two very fine insulated wires to each side of the driving wheel pickups...( watching out for plastic brake gear ) glued this to bottom of chassis and then to the correct wire now at rear of cab have been cut from tender. The loco now travels around my layout...a little tweak of the front pony truck again mentioned on the thread...powerful and responsive I’m pleased to say.  Most of errant detail now back in place...just a new drawbar arrangement to work out.

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Nice model Ian...it’s provenance? It seems to have more “ substance” than my Heljan.
 

I’ve just received a delayed order from wizard for their Scot chassis ...Galatea name and numbers ordered from model master...there is a picture in the LMS jubilees by RJEssery and GToms of it with the dreaded yellow stripe. I couldn’t bring myself to put it on 45735 but will just to ring the changes, on this one.  I have wondered why the two Jubes ended up at Barry. 45690 Leander was withdrawn from Bristol Barrow Road, makes sense . Galatea was withdrawn from Shrewsbury, then ended up at Eastleigh works...from there by rail to Barry....info courtesy of wikiipedia

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10 hours ago, 46256 said:

Nice model Ian...it’s provenance? It seems to have more “ substance” than my Heljan.
 

I’ve just received a delayed order from wizard for their Scot chassis ...Galatea name and numbers ordered from model master...there is a picture in the LMS jubilees by RJEssery and GToms of it with the dreaded yellow stripe. I couldn’t bring myself to put it on 45735 but will just to ring the changes, on this one.  I have wondered why the two Jubes ended up at Barry. 45690 Leander was withdrawn from Bristol Barrow Road, makes sense . Galatea was withdrawn from Shrewsbury, then ended up at Eastleigh works...from there by rail to Barry....info courtesy of wikiipedia

 

     Hi,  the Loco  is a Martin Finney kit with a  Korean brass Tender,  powerful loco.   I was lucky enough to purchase from a 'Gentleman'  who was selling his collection.  Photo of other loco (28xx)  purchased which is from a Westward kit ...    both beautifully built in my opinion ...

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The Heljan 47 xx has proved an interesting model...a lot of work has achieved a loco and tender that now travels around my track....John R has been with me on the journey via pms ....I won’t recount the trials and tribulations here....to sum up the tender now has a comet subframe with Hornby tender wheel set. The loco chassis...Heljan have adopted a bearing free assembly unlike similar Bachmann and Hornby....in my view not as effective ...the motor and gears which are excellent are entombed in a metal sarcophagus...again in my view it does not distribute the weight properly and can unbalance the loco. The plastic pony truck is not up to the task and has been replaced with a weighty home made affair ...this does its job of steering the chassis . My last modification....out of desperation it must be said... I removed the rear drivers...and drilled the rear axle hole slightly in the chassis block. As stated no bearings...this in effect caused the axle to sit a little lower...the coupling rods act as compensation beams ...viola loco and tender now in harmony...new drawbar between the two. It is a good powerful runner.. 

 

I have decided to take up the easier pastime of creating nuclear fusion..

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1 hour ago, 46256 said:

The Heljan 47 xx has proved an interesting model...a lot of work has achieved a loco and tender that now travels around my track....John R has been with me on the journey via pms ....I won’t recount the trials and tribulations here....to sum up the tender now has a comet subframe with Hornby tender wheel set. The loco chassis...Heljan have adopted a bearing free assembly unlike similar Bachmann and Hornby....in my view not as effective ...the motor and gears which are excellent are entombed in a metal sarcophagus...again in my view it does not distribute the weight properly and can unbalance the loco. The plastic pony truck is not up to the task and has been replaced with a weighty home made affair ...this does its job of steering the chassis . My last modification....out of desperation it must be said... I removed the rear drivers...and drilled the rear axle hole slightly in the chassis block. As stated no bearings...this in effect caused the axle to sit a little lower...the coupling rods act as compensation beams ...viola loco and tender now in harmony...new drawbar between the two. It is a good powerful runner.. 

 

I have decided to take up the easier pastime of creating nuclear fusion..

Glad to read you've triumphed!

 

I don't have a 47xx, but have done battle with one of the Gresley O2's, a bonny looking thing but with very flimsy and not entirely convincing valve gear. The motor on that was in a cast metal case as well, I can't see how this can be a good thing as the casting will retain the heat, whereas exposure to the air allows for some cooling. It may explain the number of motor failures reported by folk on the relevant thread on here. I seem to remember the Garratt also has this metal case, same argument there as well.

 

The issue of bearings is a strange one. Some of the Bachmann locos are just the same, the axles resting in recesses in the cast chassis block - I think this applies to the A1 and A2 amongst others. However they do seem to run rather well, and this despite a lot of play in the crankpins - the exact opposite of what we thought was good kit building practice!

 

John.

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Thanks John even now it had a trick to pull ...stopped in its tracks....well mine actually ...a short...removed the boiler again...the motor / gears fit into a recess in the lower chassis...there are two brass pick ups which sit on the corresponding metal plates in chassis these are wired to the pick ups...the two brass pick ups had somehow started touching....blinking gremlin again...slight readjustment...then to relocate boiler etc again...it doesn’t help that the steam pipes and smokebox stays fall off every time and are a right faff to relocate. I’m retiring in a few weeks...I was wondering how I will fill my time....I think I know now..

 

The motor is of a different breed to the puny garratt one,  as you say, that wouldn’t have lasted two minutes in this  metal incarceration.

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The 47 xx now behaving itself pulling ten coaches including some with comet brass sides....a lot of work to achieve this not least reattaching fine details. Comet GWR tender under frame used to keep tender on rails...new drawbar and removal of the fitted weight, replaced by liquid lead, better distributed. John R has made the comment that all of this remedial work shouldn’t be necessary with an expensive RTR. I agree however I have derived a certain pleasure dealing with and hopefully curing some of its quirks. I have a number of Heljan diesels which I’m pleased to say have worked fine straight from the box. I won’t be buying any more of their steam outline after this and my garratt experience.

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In the absence of high level and comet having sold out again of their gearboxes I’ve been lucky enough to obtain a RG4 on eBay for Galatea, for the right price. I need to make the black five chassis first, comet canon and gearbox assembled, waiting to go in.

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Ivatt black five chassis assembled with the poppys jig . I’m using a Hornby driving wheel set . The canon and gearbox sitting fine within the chassis... more soon...as Mark will confirm can’t have too many  black fives...it will be  44660, a Saltley engine in the mid fifties .

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Just shared these with John R downloading photos of Great Northern 60113... one of my all time favourites ....thought I was capturing various views for future reference...closer examination....can you spot the difference...and two of the real thing...

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