RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2020 I have just bought some woods metal. It melts in warm water and you can pour it into a plastic body. Going to put some of that into a rechassied Bachmann Jubilee and into the Rebuilt Scot, Currently they can haul 8 kit built metal coaches out of the fiddle yard on my new layout. You have done a good job on the Fell. We run a black one and a Green one on Chapel en le Frith. Both are Judith Edge Kits (one built by Mike Edge and one by Nicktoix (Nick Easton). Both are quite powerful. (although the layout is flat!). Baz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 Good evening Baz thanks for the tip concerning woods metal. I'm having a bit of a frustrating time with my 460 chassis ...runs well until married with the Hornby body. This has been weighted with lead shot...secured with superglue. It does Itend to nose dive causing the front frames to short on the bogie. I remember MRJ had an article the trouble with 460s....have Iain Rices book on chassis construction will have a read tomorrow. Thanks for the compliments concerning the Fell . It was seeing one of the models you mention on your layout at Warley that convinced me that I wanted my own example. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 15, 2020 Ask Mike Edge regarding the chassis.. he is streets ahead of Ian Rice..it is his day job!!! Baz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 I follow Mike's thread , what's on his workbench with a mixture of envy and awe. The last time I looked he had put wheel shields/ guards over a B4 LWSR loco.... best wishes Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just had a communication that Warley is cancelled this year. I know from mentioning this exhibition previously that some will not miss it. I however always find something of interest, and it is a great showcase for the hobby. I did have a nice Suprise yesterday my local shop Tennents if Halesowen has thus far weathered the storm courtesy of Internet sales and was open yesterday. It is only a small shop so is only allowing one customer at a time to enter....browsing is not possible .....but great to say hello to Pete the owner. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 On 14 June 2020 at 21:19, Barry O said: Be careful Ian Beatties drawings are occasionally not correct. The Roche drawing is equally strange.Just wish we had some decent LMS loco drawings.. Be careful with the Comet Frames as these were never designed to fit the Hornby body. Fasten the two frames together and then start cutting them to get them to fit. At least that was the problem I had... Baz Hello Baz just found my book on the jubilees the historical monogram by, think it was irwell press. It has two great 4mm drawings of the two types of unrebuilt Jubes ....from memory ....its up in the lloft and I don't want to risk my wife's ire by going up to check...anyway number series I think 45552 to 45664 ...45665 to 45742....just being lazy really . Finally got my comet framed Scot's bogie to stay on my track. I tend to use the inner circuit for testing locos...anyway was fine on that....but the outer circuit...it has helped me iron out some tight spots, or poor mating of rails in some fishplates. I have also used the same bodge as on the fell by fastening the screw into the rear of the bogie Hornby Dublo fashion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) Using the wild swan book bought when first published in 1994 at Warley signed personally by Bob Essery. ( one of my modelling heroes) The drawings are by JF Henderson dated 1972 and 1974. The notes state they were checked against Kolhaphur at Tyeseley and Galatea then in Barry. He notes on the unrebuilt locos the following 4 ft 2 Seven eigths from rail top to running plate...8 ft 7 and 5 eigths running plate to cab top. The cab sides 6 ft 7 and a half inches....27.5 mm. My Hornby rebuilt patriot has cab sides 24.5 mm...same as Rb Scot but without the cutout. I assume....dangerous I know that the jubilees would have retained their original cabs hence the difference. The relationship of cab to fire boxes is apparent. The first photo of how the Mainline body was originally painted now lined green Edited June 21, 2020 by 46256 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) Just lost a whole piece on cab differences...for the second time will retype tomorrow for now photo of the two types posed on the drawing by JF Henderson dated 1974 Or thought I had suddenly reappeared.....profanities thought not shouted aloud appear to have done the trick Edited June 21, 2020 by 46256 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 The three rebuilt locos please forgive the filthy Royal scot....reflected my disgust at having to re chassis a barely run engine I fear..big question can I live with the puny modelled firebox on the mainline version... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 The Dublo solution to the fouling front bogie...had to lose the front brakes too sadly..it now runs well though 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 Hate to say it but knew the answer when posing the question....no I can't live with it....cab now added to Scot replacing the former. Clearly nameplate splashers need adapting as does front buffer beam ...now need a Scot to replace. ... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Hi Brian, I honestly hesitate to say it but if my research is right (it might not be), the front end of a Scot is quite a bit different to the Jubilee, as are the buffers, footplate drop, driving wheels and balance weights. Sandboxes too but they are more obvious. I thought you might graft the Jubilee cab onto a rebuilt Patriot which is much more similar. I always enjoy your work. Sorry to appear to pick fault but I know you like to get things right. best wishes, Iain 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 23, 2020 Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 Iain no offence taken , yes it was a case of fixing one issue and creating numerous others. For now back to the drawing board. I'm not happy with the traction capabilities of my mashima powered chassis either to be honest. I have the Hornby BR patriot and that currently performs well. I suspect it could be prone though to the same failure on the Scot namely the motor gear mount working loose. I was looking at a thread last night were a fellow modeller seems to have created a cottage industry out of repairing these chassis. Iain I welcome your views I think in earlier correspondence you had encountered this same problem and had a solution? I am loathe to buy another Hornby Scot for it to fail again....indeed have the later Hornby Scot chassis been altered to cure the problem? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 23, 2020 Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 One further glitch I've noticed, it was like going back in time when I fitted a number of comet chassis to mainline / airfix Lms 460 s in my EM days. Romford / markits 27 MM drivers the tyres fouling the footplate and splashers ...requires shaving some plastic off.. I used to put it down then to the extra width caused by EM but still encountered it with my OO version.. The joy of our hobby! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 23, 2020 Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) And resume....cab reunited with the mainline body. The opportunity taken to lower the cab front plate as per Larry Goddard circa 1982....year I married....anyway lot of work to repair the damaged twosome.....locos....that is not Mrs H and I pleased to say. The jubillee will still be a compromise but in the absence of a spare rb patriot....and oodles of cash. The lowered front cab plate lessens the effect of the smaller firebox. My main preoccupation though is the poorly performing Scot chassis....overheating mashima...loss of power...experience has taught me this is often down to a number of minor factors all adding up to this result. As stated I believe in showing the problems as well as succsses Edited June 23, 2020 by 46256 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2020 The Mashima/High Level gearbox in my comet chassis Hornby Royal Scot runs well. Now I have filled the body with weights (and put some weight between the Comet Frames it can pull as well. Baz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 23, 2020 Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 Scot chassis stripped , tweaked and reassembled....running a lot better albeit without motion and cab...bit draughty for the crew! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Hi Brian, The fix for the new style Hornby Scot and Patriot chassis (they are identical I think except for the driving wheels) was a little while ago, but as I recall it was easy enough. The worm on the motor disengages from the gear wheel because a huge lump of black tack raises the motor too high. Once I removed some of the black tack and cobbled together some sort of fairly basic (insulation tape?) method of securing the motor, it was fine because the worm and gear engaged properly. At least I think that was what I did.... I’ll try to post a photo or two if I can even find which one it was. 45735 Comet done - except I forgot the vacuum standpipe - ready for weathering, lamps, coal and crew. Iain 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffordshire Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Spanner in the works, Original Royal Scot .... and rebuilt Scot .... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 7 hours ago, 92220 said: Hi Brian, The fix for the new style Hornby Scot and Patriot chassis (they are identical I think except for the driving wheels) was a little while ago, but as I recall it was easy enough. The worm on the motor disengages from the gear wheel because a huge lump of black tack raises the motor too high. Once I removed some of the black tack and cobbled together some sort of fairly basic (insulation tape?) method of securing the motor, it was fine because the worm and gear engaged properly. At least I think that was what I did.... Thinking further, I seem to remember I also had to file down the lower half of the mount for the worm and shaft very slightly, just to lower the worm towards the gear wheel. Iain 7 hours ago, Staffordshire said: Spanner in the works, Original Royal Scot .... and rebuilt Scot .... Lovely models. 46127 is a Comet kit, I’m guessing? Not sure about 46137. Heavily modified Comet kit? Sorry if I’m missing something - what is the spanner in the works? Iain 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) Iaian, My Hornby Rebuilt Scot had gearbox Mazak rot. Lifted the body to a load of bits of Mazak. Hence new chassis, wheels etc, the Gibson wheels I used fitted fine..no lumps cut out to clear them .. Baz Edited June 24, 2020 by Barry O 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 Gents great looking locomotives. please keep posting . Iain another fine example joining your outstanding fleet of licomotives. The crest on 46127 .....I do love the names given to the scots with their regimental connection. Iain your model of British Legion it's the only one I've seen in 4 mm other than by the late great Mr Jenkinson. my own attempt at Comet clearly won't be as accurate but will still post when finished not least as a comparison with its original mainline interpretation. I have a high level 13/20 and hi flyer gearbox on orde, to go in it. The comparison with my now better running mashima .., will be interesting. I just managed to order them before my friend John R emptied all of Chris's stock. Lastly sincere thank you to all who read and contribute to this thread it has helped me improve both my modelling skills and increased my knowledge of my beloved former home village. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 And there it was a rb patriot body selling for less than I paid or the mainline body....cruel fate why do you play with me so....of course I've bought it. Scot chassis now working as it should. The body repaired with plasticard and plastic weld earning itself a repaint and relining in the process. . in the event there were a number of Hornby Scot and patriot bodies on e bay....evidence of the chassis failures ? Now to remove the mainline cab again from comet....my workbench starting to resemble Derby works on a bank holiday shutdown. Iain armed with the proper starting material will be referring to your thread to create Comet .i know there is an issue with the smokebox saddle being different for example. I realise how blase I how been with my own railways ( midland / LMS) express 460 s....familiarity etc... Loads of prototype info on for example Thompson pacifics but not these... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2020 You could buy a Comet etched cab of course.... Baz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, 46256 said: And there it was a rb patriot body selling for less than I paid or the mainline body....cruel fate why do you play with me so....of course I've bought it. Scot chassis now working as it should. The body repaired with plasticard and plastic weld earning itself a repaint and relining in the process. . in the event there were a number of Hornby Scot and patriot bodies on e bay....evidence of the chassis failures ? Now to remove the mainline cab again from comet....my workbench starting to resemble Derby works on a bank holiday shutdown. Iain armed with the proper starting material will be referring to your thread to create Comet .i know there is an issue with the smokebox saddle being different for example. I realise how blase I how been with my own railways ( midland / LMS) express 460 s....familiarity etc... Loads of prototype info on for example Thompson pacifics but not these... If you start with a Hornby Rebuilt Patriot body and graft a new style Bachmann Jubilee cab to it, you will be close enough. The smokebox saddle needs no alterations, is almost invisible and it’s a lot easier. Or find a Brassmasters Jubilee cab. Not all that likely tbh If you do what I did and start with the Bachmann Jubilee it’s marginally (some would say imperceptibly) closer to reality but a bit harder. 1 hour ago, Barry O said: You could buy a Comet etched cab of course.... Baz I only realised after I bought and built one that it was too shallow to represent a Jubilee cab Baz. But I think it’s good for a Pat? As visible in these two posts where I tried to make a rebuilt Jub from the old Bachmann model. Iain Edited June 24, 2020 by 92220 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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