NCE Power Cab, slow running

[paulco]

Hello All,

 

I have recently bought a NCE power cab and are very pleased with it. Only have a Bachmann 

earl as yet and just running it on a 6 x 4 board at the moment, the earl runs superbly, both on 

DC and DCC other than it runs slower on my DCC setup, I have checked cv29 and cv5 to make 

sure they are at max current voltage which I think they are, my Bachmann dc controller was run 

by a 16v ac adapter but the NCE has come with a 13.8v dc adapter as supplied by Diggitrains, 

my bus and dropper wiring has been done with 16/0.2  3amp peco wire as recommended by my 

local model shop, is the adapter or wire too smaller than should be, also if I upgrade at some time 

to a 5 amp setup will the 3 amp peco wire be too thin. 

Sorry to be asking what is probably a naive question, thanks for your help.

Paul

[traction]

Yes everything is fine.

 

The loco will run slower using the PowerCab.

If I swap from PowerCab to Hornby Select the loco runs faster with the Hornby Select as the controller gives more power to the track.

 

You can't just use a bigger power supply with the controllers, the internal short circuit protection is designed to work at the recommended input voltage/current so don't just put a bigger one on.

 

The wiring 16/0.2 is OK for short dropper lengths, may have been wise to use larger cable size for the bus, if looking to the future going to 5amps.

depends on the size of layout, if you are sticking with a 6x4 board you shouldn't need to go to 5amps, the PowerCab will run 4 locos including one sound.

If you do go to 5amps, you will need to split the layout into sections and you can probably say that each section won't be big enough to have enough stock on to be above 5amps.

 

It's easy to check with the PowerCab, Press the following buttons:-

 

PROG/ESC - 6 Screen will show "SET CAB PARAMS" press ENTER

 

Screen shows "SHOW TRK CURRENT? 1=Y" press 1

 

Press PROG/ESC to return to main display, you will now be able to see what the current is for all the locos you run.

 

If you do any CV programming or just go into the program mode, the screen will default again which is not the track current so you will need to follow the above procedure to show the track current again.

 

It should give a good indication of what each loco draws at standstill and running so you can work out total locos that can run, each one will be probably a little different with those with sound/lights drawing a bit more.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[PhilH]

Discussion on same subject

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52016-help-with-nce-powercab/

[paulco]

Yes everything is fine.

 

The loco will run slower using the PowerCab.

If I swap from PowerCab to Hornby Select the loco runs faster with the Hornby Select as the controller gives more power to the track.

 

You can't just use a bigger power supply with the controllers, the internal short circuit protection is designed to work at the recommended input voltage/current so don't just put a bigger one on.

 

The wiring 16/0.2 is OK for short dropper lengths, may have been wise to use larger cable size for the bus, if looking to the future going to 5amps.

depends on the size of layout, if you are sticking with a 6x4 board you shouldn't need to go to 5amps, the PowerCab will run 4 locos including one sound.

If you do go to 5amps, you will need to split the layout into sections and you can probably say that each section won't be big enough to have enough stock on to be above 5amps.

 

It's easy to check with the PowerCab, Press the following buttons:-

 

PROG/ESC - 6 Screen will show "SET CAB PARAMS" press ENTER

 

Screen shows "SHOW TRK CURRENT? 1=Y" press 1

 

Press PROG/ESC to return to main display, you will now be able to see what the current is for all the locos you run.

 

If you do any CV programming or just go into the program mode, the screen will default again which is not the track current so you will need to follow the above procedure to show the track current again.

 

It should give a good indication of what each loco draws at standstill and running so you can work out total locos that can run, each one will be probably a little different with those with sound/lights drawing a bit more.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Many thanks Ian, 

 

Very good of you. 

 

Looking for a quick reply if possible - Bachmann recommend running the earl on second radius, which I am doing at moment, 

would it run on first radius with points between the two. 

 

Thanks again.

Paul

[traction]

Hi Paul,

 

Not too sure what the Bachmann Earl looks like......I do now!

If Bachmann say it needs to run on a minimum of 2nd radius then to go to 1st may cause problems.

It will either struggle to go round or if it's pulling anything you will get buffer lock.

 

If you have some 1st radius curves make a circle of track up, connect two wires to it from the PowerCab and just test run the loco round the track with different items of rolling stock to the back, and front, if required and see if it derails or the buffers lock.

 

Going backwards with the tender on should show straight away, I would guess!

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Edited January 16, 2016 by traction

[paulco]

Many thanks for replies all. 

 

Thanks for info Ian - just took a look at your "build a train set" link, it is superb 

and so well meant, you have a knack of putting things across whilst also gathering 

info yourself, - a skill.

All the best

Paul

[10000]

15v 2amp adapter can be used and will give you an increase to about 14.5v output instead of 13.3 which will give a slight increase in speed. 

The slow speed from the Powercab is one of the reasons I switched to a Lenz for my British but kept the Powercab for American where it does not matter as much.

[PhilH]

Sorry to drag this up again (what's 4 years between friends) but I was having problems with slow running / seeming lack of power of my locos on my recently completed dcc layout., this was using the power pack supplied with the Powercab.

           Although due to the nature of the layout I only usually run one engine at once there can be up to 15 engines on there. Reading through this thread convinced me that a new psu was needed so I bought an RS 15v 2amp unit, seemingly good value at £19. Well, night and day, black and white, what a difference, seems to have rejuvenated things and the trainset now performs at the level I had hoped for.

          Obviously no long term experience with it yet so it remains possible that suddenly things might start to glow in the dark or I will go in there one day to find nothing but charred embers where the layout used to be. We shall see, but so far,so good.

 

[Mallard60022]

As Phil H Says the alternative PSU is a real game changer. 15V 2Amp is just right and I often have 5 + loco's hanging around and two running with heavy trains. Some Decoders eat more power and there is a Baccy Std. Class 5 I have that just won't go above a scale 50 ish but I found out that is the particular batch of that Loco.

Good luck mate.

P 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Mallard60022

[Pete the Elaner]

4 minutes ago, PhilH said:

 

          Obviously no long term experience with it yet so it remains possible that suddenly things might start to glow in the dark or I will go in there one day to find nothing but charred embers where the layout used to be. We shall see, but so far,so good.

 

 

A overload will only happen if there is a problem elsewhere.

The higher voltage is still within standard & a higher current capability will only be supplied if the loads (ie decoders & locos) draw it.

 

DCC is more complex, so it is easier to explain with DC, but the principles are similar.

If you have 12v DC supplying 12 ohm load, it will only ever use 1A, even is the supply is capable of a lot more.

The reasons you don't want a bigger supply than necessary are: If a fault occurs, you want the supply cut off as quickly & with as little overload as possible. More powerful supplies cost significantly more, so why waste money on capacity you don't need?

[bluedepot]

hi phil

 

can you link me to the 15v psu you bought please? 

 

does it plug in the nce panel like the nce provided one? 

 

i am having some slow running issues too, esp. with Dapol n gauge class 52/56/58 and hall. 

 

many thanks 

 

 

tim

[jml3p]

Hi 

May i get the link for the 15v psu too please?

 

Thank you.

 

Jonathan

[Brian]

Possibly?.... Link to RS Components  Note the DC plug does not fit directly into the PCP socket . It needs a converter. The PCP DC input socket is 2.5 x 5.5 positive to centre. The plug on this RS power supply is 2.1 x 5.5.

Coastal DCC have one 15 volt 1.6Amp plug-in power supply suitable for the PowerCab  Coastal DCC

Edited May 22, 2020 by Brian
Info updated re RS linked power supply plug

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

There are three problems contributing to restrictions in obtaining a desired top speed, the first completely independent of DCC.

 

There is no performance standard for OO models to achieve some percentage of the applicable maximum scale speed when some specified continuous voltage is available at the motor terminals. (120% at 12V would be 'useful' in my opinion.)

 

DCC decoders are not necessarily consistent in performance in voltage and current delivery.

 

DCC systems are not required to make a minimum voltage available on track.

 

I ran into inability to obtain the desired maximum scale speed at 12V on a couple of RTR steam models, and maximum speed was slightly lower on my DCC system, unsurprising because the two best performing decoders of those I was testing (Lenz and Zimo) maintained a net 11.8V at the motor terminals. After some discussion the simplest solution suggested was to increase the DCC system's track output voltage, which I now have set such that 15V is available at the motor terminals. Now even the most sluggish have the capability when required to belt along my first class mainline at the scale maximum for the class. There is no loss in operating refinement, especially the almost imperceptible creep into and out of motion that I feel is essential to realistic operation;  there is no downside.