“WASHBOURNE”

[Mikkel]

Nice rugged wagon. Forgive my ignorance, but is it an NER hopper?

 

You'd better look out for rodents, there's a bit of sleeper missing.

[Northroader]

 

The sleeper was cut away at some time to clear a lifting handle, as it’s on a cassette. The North East of England was distinctive in how the coal was moved, originally by waggonways taking the coal from pits down to the sea, using chaldron wagons, simple hoppers.

 

The railways expanded into components of the NER or small private lines taking coal for shipment, mainly down the coast to London, and the chaldron expanded into larger hopper versions. NER stations were distinctive in having coal drops for the hoppers, every other railway had station sidings where the coal was shovelled out from the side.

Two good examples of NER layouts with coaldrops and hoppers, lovely modelling:

And porcy mane’s “Croft depot”

https://www.scalefour.org/shows/S4um2011/croft.html

Edited June 21, 2020 by Northroader

[Mikkel]

Thanks Northroader. I'm familiar with the excellent Rosedale east, but hadn't seen those photos of Croft Depot before. 

 

There is something of the chaldron still in your wagon, somehow. Solid genes! By my question I meant to ask whether it was an NER wagon, or something else. 

[Compound2632]

13 hours ago, Northroader said:

unusual in having large horizontal supporting baulks behind the downward extensions of the end stanchions.

 

Unusual in the sense of, actually modelled. My Slaters P7 large hoppers are defective in this respect: the bottom extensions of the end pillars would soon succumb to repeated impact by a chaldron wagon's buffers. [See subsequent post.]

Edited June 22, 2020 by Compound2632
Retraction.

[CKPR]

I've read that the downward extension of the end pillars was as much to guide the rope on the many rope worked inclines in the north east ,than to serve as buffers for chaldron wagons. Many wagons on the M&CR also had a similar  arrangement of extended pillars to act as dumb buffers but these were backed by timbers baulks running the length of the wagon.

Edited June 22, 2020 by CKPR

[Northroader]

It took me some time to realise where the baulks went, until I spotted them in a drawing. The big Slaters hoppers are a bit too late for my time frame, but they are impressive vehicles. The whole fleet really could only be North Eastern, they’re too distinctive for anything else, and with my moniker I really felt I should have one at least.

[Compound2632]

I have to withdraw my previous remark, having looked at photos in North Eastern Record Vol. 2 (HMRS, 1997). These show wagons of diagrams P6 and P7 with no additional support behind the end pillars. (The Furness kit is a P4, I gather.) There's a photo of a P7 with part of the bottom end plank removed to allow access for the incline cable, though it's not clear to me how it's secured. I suspect that by the early 20th century these big hoppers really had little chance of buffering up to a chaldron wagon so the extensions are largely traditional rather than functional - though they do have a flitch plate. I have several Slaters 4 mm P7s from a dabble in things Noth Eastern (may resurface) along with some transfers for the correct livery supplied to me a while ago by Paul Gallon of Rosedale fame which, to my shame, I have yet to apply.

[CKPR]

At the risk of this becoming a Slaters NER hopper thread, I bought the 4mm kit when it was first released and it remains a favourite of mine to this day. I now have quite a large 'CD' and 'ND' fleet of them with sundry modifications (including the cut away bottom end plank, which was a right pig to so do !), albeit that they are slightly out of place in my West Cumberland pre-group scene -  they should really be types P4 to P6 or, better still, R5s.

Edited June 22, 2020 by CKPR

[Northroader]

Just an aside, two years ago, page 28, we were thinking about design for a small 0 gauge layout, and Don gave a link to an article by Terry Kempton, about his first layout, Halstead, and I gave a link to his second, Luxted. I was messing around the other night, and became aware that he’s now on RMweb, and last April did two threads with more detail on these two lines. They’re good examples of small 0 gauge design, so I’m putting in links for anyone who’s interested.

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Northroader

[Nearholmer]

And, leafing through a copy of a garden railway mag lent to me by a pal, I saw a review of an absolutely beautiful kit for that NE hopper of yours, all wood and laser-cut steel, trouble is its G1 and c£100 without the wheel-sets.

[Northroader]

It could be regarded as dear for just one wagon, but when you look at the quality of the components, it would be decent value, I’m sure.  I think large single models do have a persona as individual items, and handling that bulk is in itself very satisfying. My wife would never let me loose in the garden, so it would be a micro in the house, quite minimal, but certainly enjoyable. Too late in life to contemplate now, though.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Northroader

[Axlebox]

On 21/06/2020 at 20:31, Northroader said:

 

The sleeper was cut away at some time to clear a lifting handle, as it’s on a cassette. The North East of England was distinctive in how the coal was moved, originally by waggonways taking the coal from pits down to the sea, using chaldron wagons, simple hoppers.

 

The railways expanded into components of the NER or small private lines taking coal for shipment, mainly down the coast to London, and the chaldron expanded into larger hopper versions. NER stations were distinctive in having coal drops for the hoppers, every other railway had station sidings where the coal was shovelled out from the side.

Two good examples of NER layouts with coaldrops and hoppers, lovely modelling:

And porcy mane’s “Croft depot”

https://www.scalefour.org/shows/S4um2011/croft.html

 

That Poursea Mane character should build his own train set and stop nicking mine!

 

TBH he does operate it a lot more than I do and hes the person you mostly see with it at exhibitions...and he does take most of the photographs...

[Porcy Mane]

On 21/06/2020 at 20:31, Northroader said:

And porcy mane’s “Croft depot”

 

Nowt to do wi me.

 

1 hour ago, Axlebox said:

That Poursea Mane character

 

Tis way past your bed time grasshopper. Only real men stay up beyond midnight.

[Northroader]

Apologies to both you night owls, I think it’s a great layout whichever come up with it, both the design and the “feel”.  Was there ever a thread done on it? I had to nick a link into a show to get some pictures.

[Axlebox]

On 27/06/2020 at 08:35, Northroader said:

Apologies to both you night owls, I think it’s a great layout whichever come up with it, both the design and the “feel”.  Was there ever a thread done on it? I had to nick a link into a show to get some pictures.

 

It predates RM web so there isn't a thread...but does have its own Facebook page, which is as much about Croft as it is a ramble about railways and what inspires me to make things in miniature...

 

https://www.facebook.com/Croft-Depot-Model-Railway-180968538716852

 

[Porcy Mane]

47 minutes ago, Axlebox said:

It predates RM web so there isn't a thread

 

Inspiration came from the strangest of all places many years ago.

 

[Northroader]

Thanks for that link, there’s a great set of pictures to work off in there.

[Northroader]

17 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Inspiration came from the strangest of all places many years ago.

 

 

The ones at Bank Top you could climb over the back through the spikes and not go through the ticket barrier at all. Having enjoyed the shots of the model and the big outdoors, I feel it would be remiss of me not to put a link in for the latest work in progress, although a post is overdue? Hope you’re alright.

 

[Axlebox]

7 hours ago, Northroader said:

 

...I feel it would be remiss of me not to put a link in for the latest work in progress, although a post is overdue? Hope you’re alright.

 

Weirdly I thought I'd have more time to do things in lockdown, but working from home seems take more out of my day than travelling into an office everyday!

 

I'm currently building stock for Garmondsway...or playing wagon body Jenga (or both)

 

 

[Northroader]

In other news, returning to the Little Washbourne job, there’s a bit more happened on that. The way things are, I’m viewing this for now as a test piece rather than a new layout starting off. You’ll have detected that I have been dabbling in GWR broad gauge, with a variety of items, all of which need fettling up to scratch before they can be signed off, but they now have somewhere to call home.

 

The baseboard is cut from a piece of old shelving, half inch 9 ply, possibly marine, which is stable and warp free. This is topped by some sticky back cork tiles to give a bit of resilience. It measures 30” x 8”, 760 x200mm, enough to give you the length of two sixwheelers and an 0-4-4T in 0 scale, and who could possibly need more?

Youll see that the layout is a runthrough single line, with a siding off, just like big Washbourne, only facing the other way. This configuration was done to fit in an existing piece of track done to a reverse curve, which forms the new siding, and a straight piece adapted from a cassette road. I just wanted a single line entry at each end, having a double track hole would look disproportionate on this short length, but when you draw out a broad gauge point, you’ll find it needs something like 21”, 540mm plus, from fouling point to the switch blades, so I’ve made half a point, the crossing end, and I’m letting the cassette do the switching at that end. There’s just enough room for three four wheel wagons in the siding, perhaps I could have knocked a couple inches more off and got two sixwheelers in. The crossing has a small piece of insulation at the vee, and gaps, so is a single unit for electrical feeds.

The BGS do bridge rail, originally it was aluminium and had to be glued down to the sleepers, now they do nickel silver, which you can solder, a much simpler job. I’m using surplus flat-bottom rail, as the GWR did use Vignoles as well as Bridge rail. (There’s a old photo of Abingdon with the branch train hauled by a Leo 2-4-0T, and you can pick out the shadow of the railhead.) These are laid on sleeper strip from Marcway, fibre glass copper clad, and you’ll probably work out that the transoms are actually transverse sleepers, with the longitudinal “sleepers” just infill between these.  There are small pieces of a tough double side copper clad fibre glass under the crossing and check rails, these being joined by a brass strip under, and infill transom on top.

For now this unit is lying loose on the old Washbourne fiddle yard. The intention is for a platform and station building behind, the yard getting narrowed in the process. Left hand end exit through an overbridge, right hand end exit masked by an old signal box (St. Mary’s Crossing type) in front. Cassettes at each end will in part be supported by the fiddle yard overlap.

A parcels van is helping with the testing. I’m finding that I can just about get away with this using the outer axles mounted  rigidly on the body. It simplifies things if there’s no compensation or springing, and if all the flangetips are touching on a flat sheet of glass you can normally succeed.  The snag is that the BGS supply wheelsets with S7 profiles, the “S” in this instance standing for “silly flangedepth”. They try to get close to prototype proportions, and I’m much happier with “finescale” being more suited to the rough and tumble of model Railways. This is why I’m trying to get everything dead flat and level, with warp proof board, and it is going through the point ok, I’ll have to be careful with the runoff alignment on the cassettes. The centre wheelset, when fitted, will be totally independent floating. The van is a BGS kit, and you can get it with broadgauge or standardgauge ends. We’re all used to the proportions of the standard gauge, seeing the wide body is quite a change. (Although we do like wide bodies on here, as you’re aware) 

 

[Donw]

Oh very nice. Not sure I should keep looking there was a very nice and quite modelable Boad Gauge terminus just a mile away and I could easily be distracted.

Don

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Very nice trackwork there, I'm about to start building some for my BG layout, (in 4mm).

[Annie]

Ooooo very nice indeed Mr Northroader.  Reminds me though that I have been neglecting my own Broad Gauge projects.

[Northroader]

10 hours ago, Donw said:

Oh very nice. Not sure I should keep looking there was a very nice and quite modelable Boad Gauge terminus just a mile away and I could easily be distracted.

Don

 

It would do very well, Don, especially with the original buildings, although I’d want to simplify the trackwork, because of point lengths,

 

Otherwise, just to cut your teeth, you could do a little slice of Watchet, a kind of of outsize cakebox with a runoff each side, to keep it simple?

[Donw]

There is a rather excellent book which I have but dont keep looking at it. I was a member of the BGS for a while many years ago. There wasn't much stuff available then.  I have stood on the footplate of an Iron Duke in steam. Unfornately there was not enough track to move it. I could imagine it hurtling along. Mind you I dont suppose Iron Dukes ever went down the West Somerset line mostly the 4-4-0ST I think. If you want to see Bulk road track have a look at Modbury https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100693-modbury/   It is modelled as re-gauged but done very nicely.

Now there is an idea doing BG in 2mm I could have those big sweeping curves which I haven't room for in 7mm.

Don