“WASHBOURNE”

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, islandbridgejct said:

County of Suffix

 

See also 1030 County of Pressfix and 1031 County of Methfix.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, islandbridgejct said:

Incidentally, where is the County of Suffix?

Next to the County of Norfix, of course.

[Caley Jim]

Is that anywhere near Screwfix? 

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

One can affix any prefix. Isn't there a character in Asterix the Gaul called Gettafix?

[Northroader]

Alan, it’s nice to have you paying a visit, and thanks for the place name advice, even if it’s since run away out of hand. The one firms name I like is “Doolittle & Dalley”, house estate agents in Kidderminster.

Stephen on here was making noises about 5’3” P4, (did he mean it?) and your thread is the obvious “go to”place for that. I hope you’re OK, as it’s gone a bit quiet there recently?

Edited May 13, 2021 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Stephen on here was making noises about 5’3” P4, (did he mean it?) 

 

Daydreaming, I'm afraid.

[islandbridgejct]

On 13/05/2021 at 12:38, Northroader said:

Alan, it’s nice to have you paying a visit, and thanks for the place name advice, even if it’s since run away out of hand. The one firms name I like is “Doolittle & Dalley”, house estate agents in Kidderminster.

Stephen on here was making noises about 5’3” P4, (did he mean it?) and your thread is the obvious “go to”place for that. I hope you’re OK, as it’s gone a bit quiet there recently?

 

Thanks for the kind words. The "go to" place? I don't think so, unfortunately. Work has rather ambushed my modelling objectives over the past few years, but I have run through a number of plans. First, there was a 3m long shunting layout which I ultimately decided was only going to frustrate me. I like long. Next up was Headford Junction in 6m - a bit truncated and I had to lose the delightful curve on the main line which was really the key feature of the whole thing, and it really needed 3m more length and 750mm more width to make it worthwhile. The plan was to make it readily foldable so it could be set up and taken down easily, and I wanted to be able to transport it by train, but it kept on creeping up above 30kg in weight, even with ultra lightweight construction, so things ran into the sand there. Then I figured that I could actually find a run of 9m down the hall, but ultra narrow - only 500mm across, and, asking myself what would be an interesting dead straight station to model, I came up with Limerick Junction or Claremorris. Well, the junction is far too big with too much reversing involved, but Claremorris could be done if I kept trains short. I think 4 coaches is about the ideal length for a train in visual terms, and I recalled my first trip to Mayo in 1987 and being told to move up the train in order to alight at the platform. Well I duly moved up the 7 coach train only to find myself getting off at Castlebar airfield rather than Castlebar Station: platforms on the Westport line were short! In 1900, Claremorris' platform could be modelled full length in a little over a metre, so it was game on. Photos on flickr show the station was modified, probably in the 1930s, to accommodate pilgrimmage traffic going to Knock (apparition by the Virgin Mary or a collective psychosis resulting from green spots on the potatoes during a bad summer? You decide.) The result was the only station on the entire GSR system that needed extension; but to do it, they had to extend the platform so far it cut off access to the goods shed, and then the track plan got modified to instal a bunch of new sidings in the yard. I think I can work with that. So the idea at the moment is for 1m trains, plus engine, a 1.5m fiddleyard at either end, and the WLWR / GSWR coming in from one side, crossing the MGWR, and going out the other side, plus Ballinrobe trains coming in and terminating. Templot says it can work, and there's none of this railway in the landscape Mallarkey either, just tracks and rain, and more rain. This is Mayo, my grandfather's county - with any luck, everyone will be in the waiting room until the train is due and they'll only be outside for a few seconds - they'll never notice there's no scenery. So Claremorris stayed interesting through the 90s and up to about 2000, with a goods yard, and shunting, and trains for the Ballina branch. These days it's much reduced. The "Burma Road" to Sligo is gone. The Ballinrobe branch is gone. The road to Tuam, Athenry and Limerick is gone. And the branch train for Ballina is a DMU that shuttles up and down between Ballina and Manulla, and doesn't come near Claremorris. But it's a railway crossroads 3 stops from the ass end of nowhere, and will give me a chance to make up all sorts of trains if I can only remove the specified digit from the unmentionable orifice and get a bloody move on. And it will work as well with some IRM "A"s and some Murphy "B"s as with a J15, a J26 and an occasional Woolwich. So maybe, one day....

 

Anyway, so much for daydreams. It's nice to see Washbourne progressing steadliy on here, and your work is always an inspiration, as are the goings on beyond Dover. I'll shut up now until I have something done to actually talk about.

 

Alan

[Edwardian]

On 13/05/2021 at 09:42, islandbridgejct said:

If looking for an appropriate name for a firm of Irish solicitors, the real firm of Argue and Phibbs was based inSligo townuntil, I understand, 1944. A short account is on sligotown.net, and elsewhere.

 

 

 

Or, if needing a lawyer in Warwickshire, there is the unbelievably named Wright Hassle. The creepy silent laughter would put me off, that, and the fact that I could not honestly recommend anyone but me!

[Edwardian]

On 13/05/2021 at 09:42, islandbridgejct said:

”Combe” is not an ending I have ever seen on an Irish place name. 

 

 

Combe is very Anglo-Saxon, particularly associated with the south and southwest of England. It refers to a small valley or hollow. It ultimately shares its origin with Welsh cwm.

[islandbridgejct]

17 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Combe is very Anglo-Saxon, particularly associated with the south and southwest of England. It refers to a small valley or hollow. It ultimately shares its origin with Welsh cwm.

Ah, that would explain it. If we had a hollow, it would fill up with water first, then the water would fill up with moss, and then the moss would grow until it was higher than the hollow. Then we'd call it a raised bog. I don't think anywhere in Ireland has a name with 'bog' in the title - which tells you all you need to know.

[Compound2632]

I find it asserted that combe is used in County Kerry but I haven't found an actual instance.

[Edwardian]

I'm rather liking the idea of combining the Irish with the English to form Liscombe, a fairy hollow. 

 

Oh, but, wait ...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Edwardian
spelling

[Donw]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Or, if needing a lawyer in Warwickshire, there is the unbelievably named Wright Hassle. The creepy silent laughter would put me off, that, and the fact that I could not honestly recommend anyone but me!

 

On the Isle of Wight we bought a place the vendor used a Mr Careless. He was pretty good we used him ourselves later on. Still trading as A J Careless Solicitors.

 

Don

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, islandbridgejct said:

 

Thanks for the kind words. The "go to" place? I don't think so, unfortunately. Work has rather ambushed my modelling objectives over the past few years, but I have run through a number of plans. First, there was a 3m long shunting layout which I ultimately decided was only going to frustrate me. I like long. Next up was Headford Junction in 6m - a bit truncated and I had to lose the delightful curve on the main line which was really the key feature of the whole thing, and it really needed 3m more length and 750mm more width to make it worthwhile. The plan was to make it readily foldable so it could be set up and taken down easily, and I wanted to be able to transport it by train, but it kept on creeping up above 30kg in weight, even with ultra lightweight construction, so things ran into the sand there. Then I figured that I could actually find a run of 9m down the hall, but ultra narrow - only 500mm across, and, asking myself what would be an interesting dead straight station to model, I came up with Limerick Junction or Claremorris. Well, the junction is far too big with too much reversing involved, but Claremorris could be done if I kept trains short. I think 4 coaches is about the ideal length for a train in visual terms, and I recalled my first trip to Mayo in 1987 and being told to move up the train in order to alight at the platform. Well I duly moved up the 7 coach train only to find myself getting off at Castlebar airfield rather than Castlebar Station: platforms on the Westport line were short! In 1900, Claremorris' platform could be modelled full length in a little over a metre, so it was game on. Photos on flickr show the station was modified, probably in the 1930s, to accommodate pilgrimmage traffic going to Knock (apparition by the Virgin Mary or a collective psychosis resulting from green spots on the potatoes during a bad summer? You decide.) The result was the only station on the entire GSR system that needed extension; but to do it, they had to extend the platform so far it cut off access to the goods shed, and then the track plan got modified to instal a bunch of new sidings in the yard. I think I can work with that. So the idea at the moment is for 1m trains, plus engine, a 1.5m fiddleyard at either end, and the WLWR / GSWR coming in from one side, crossing the MGWR, and going out the other side, plus Ballinrobe trains coming in and terminating. Templot says it can work, and there's none of this railway in the landscape Mallarkey either, just tracks and rain, and more rain. This is Mayo, my grandfather's county - with any luck, everyone will be in the waiting room until the train is due and they'll only be outside for a few seconds - they'll never notice there's no scenery. So Claremorris stayed interesting through the 90s and up to about 2000, with a goods yard, and shunting, and trains for the Ballina branch. These days it's much reduced. The "Burma Road" to Sligo is gone. The Ballinrobe branch is gone. The road to Tuam, Athenry and Limerick is gone. And the branch train for Ballina is a DMU that shuttles up and down between Ballina and Manulla, and doesn't come near Claremorris. But it's a railway crossroads 3 stops from the ass end of nowhere, and will give me a chance to make up all sorts of trains if I can only remove the specified digit from the unmentionable orifice and get a bloody move on. And it will work as well with some IRM "A"s and some Murphy "B"s as with a J15, a J26 and an occasional Woolwich. So maybe, one day....

 

Anyway, so much for daydreams. It's nice to see Washbourne progressing steadliy on here, and your work is always an inspiration, as are the goings on beyond Dover. I'll shut up now until I have something done to actually talk about.

 

Alan

Lovely stuff Alan. I look forward to seeing more.

[Edwardian]

9 hours ago, Donw said:

 

On the Isle of Wight we bought a place the vendor used a Mr Careless. He was pretty good we used him ourselves later on. Still trading as A J Careless Solicitors.

 

Don

 

I thought Vendor was a place on the Isle of Wight!

[Northroader]

Alan, I’m with the Saint in thanking you for the account of your modelling aspirations. Claremorris sounds a good pick for a Junction with very good traffic potential, wasn’t it a big place for cattle movements? Never got that far by train, used to get out at Westland Row (Pearce these days) and see the sign “Trains to the West of Ireland” and think “if only”.

Your work with P4 track on your IRM thread impressed me, it’s nice to see things being done properly, rather than my bodgery. I do hope your dreams come to fruition, and you’re very welcome on here anytime, for a craic-fix.

[islandbridgejct]

On 15/05/2021 at 09:35, Northroader said:

Alan, I’m with the Saint in thanking you for the account of your modelling aspirations. Claremorris sounds a good pick for a Junction with very good traffic potential, wasn’t it a big place for cattle movements? Never got that far by train, used to get out at Westland Row (Pearce these days) and see the sign “Trains to the West of Ireland” and think “if only”.

Your work with P4 track on your IRM thread impressed me, it’s nice to see things being done properly, rather than my bodgery. I do hope your dreams come to fruition, and you’re very welcome on here anytime, for a craic-fix.

 

Cattle? Oh yes, there was a large cattle park north of the station - not pens but a whole big field. As far as I've been able to figure it out, the trade was dairying in the south (make butter and ship to Britain, probably along the WLWR but I'm sure the GSWR routed anything it could through Dublin); take the calves and send them west for fattening, so again probably the WLWR up to Claremorris, Sligo, and everywhere in Connacht; sell the fattened cattle at markets around the west, and send them on the MGWR to Dublin, or the SLNCR and GNR(I) to Belfast or Greenore. Export them to Britain 'on the hoof' - LNWR to Holyhead for London and the midlands, boat to Liverpool for Manchester and the north. Or sell them in the cattle market in Dublin and then onto the boat for Britain - Dublin gougers driving them down the North Circular to the docks with the whole place liberally plastered with cow sh*te, and the number 10 tram stuck in the middle of the herd. The Irish Times was agitating about 1905 for completion of the WCIR link to Mullingar, but the MGWR was having none of it.

 

Great times altogether, until the 1930s and the economic war, and then some cute hoor had the idea he could make a few quid by slaughtering the beasts here and shipping the mate across the water in a refrigerated lorry.

 

Thanks again for the kind words. By the time I got to Pearse, departures for the wesht left from Heuston. And some day, I'll make a start.

 

Alan

[islandbridgejct]

On 14/05/2021 at 22:29, Edwardian said:

I'm rather liking the idea of combining the Irish with the English to form Liscombe, a fairy hollow. 

 

Oh, but, wait ...

 

 

 

 

 

Also available with added Canadianness:

[Compound2632]

Cattle? Heysham.

[Northroader]

 In 1964, I moved down to Cardiff, and one train still running was a regular working, cattle vans with live beef stock from Fishguard. Usually it went to Banbury, for the Midlands markets. It put in a call at STJ, where the cattle would be watered, and checked they were standing, the control log used to say if any were down, as they needed to be got out for attention. Couldn’t say the port in Ireland they come from, the Great Western was called the cattle boat and worked from Waterford, but you’d have a hell of a game herding them along the Quay, worse than what you say for Dublin, unless lorries were used? It couldn’t have been much later before it went over to refrigerated lorries.

Good luck with things.

[Northroader]

For the second loco I wanted to model I chose a MGWR standard goods engine. Martin Atock came to the MGWR from the WLWR as Locomotive Superintendant in 1872, and retired from the post in 1900, a good long innings. The first batch of ten of his goods engines were built by Stephensons in 1876 designated class L. He was busy developing the Broadstone works in Dublin to be able to be more “stand alone”, and started to build more of the class from 1876, incorporating components from earlier Hawthorn 0-4-2 goods engines, including the wheels, which were  a smaller size. I have difficulty following the tale, as there were class L, Lm, and Ln engines, the wheel size being one distinction to start with. Batches were built at Broadstone up to 1895, and Atock was able to follow a policy of completely renewing engines after twenty years service, which went by the board in the straitened times of the twentieth century. As a result the older engines changed considerably, the smaller wheels being replaced. The older engines gained Belpaire boilers, the newer engines had round top fireboxes, and would seem that this distinction stayed up to absorption into the GSR, who called them J18 and J19 classes, but then changing boilers willy nilly, as well as giving them Inchicore designs, where they were now being repaired. It seems there was also one J16 engine which was an L class with the old small wheels, which had been involved in some trial tests. With the renewals, I’m rather unclear just how many there were, 58 perhaps? Maybe more? They had numbers in the MGWR range 49-85, 104, 130-140., and GSR 563-613.

Theres a good 4mm drawing in Ernie Shepherds MGWR book I showed a couple of pages ago. I felt the need to have nicely machined chassis, so I cast around for a match. The L class had 5’3” drivers, 7’2” + 7’9” wheelbase, and I settled on the GWR 2251 class, 5’2” drivers, 7’3” + 8’3” wheelbase, as near as dammit, I felt. At the time CCW were around, and here I give a heart felt lament. In the 1950s they were doing widespread models, 4mm and 7mm, gradually specialising in 7mm, and by the time I had started in 7mm, there was a big stand at Telford GOG, full of useful goodies, and I still have a catalogue, with a nice range of Big Four kits, chassis and superstructure, not as hellishly complicated as most you encounter now, and I was planning out which would be the next to save up for, staged expenditure for how many more years, then wham! They just stopped trading! What a loss!!

Just before this happened I had my 2251 chassis off them, a bit nicer machine work than the Leinster kit, but the set up of brass strip frames, bushes and spacers was very similar, and no compensation. The coupling rods in particular were really nicely milled nickel silver. All that was needed was to shorten the back end, and move the rear frame spacer forwards. Then drill for Slaters pickups, and fit a Mashima motor and gearbox (Premier components) The tender inside frames were a lighter homemade construction with some copper clad underneath with phosphor bronze pickup whiskers. You’ll see there’s minimal detail below the deck.

The superstructure went together well from hand cut brass sheet, and a bought in brass dome, and it does have  a “in house” look very like the E 0-6-0T, apart from the “fly away” cab, a uniquely MGWR trademark, even if flying in the face of what we’ve learnt about aerodynamics.

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Northroader said:

the “fly away” cab, a uniquely MGWR trademark, even if flying in the face of what we’ve learnt about aerodynamics.

 

A beautiful little engine, but I doubt aerodynamics come into it at MGWR speeds. More likely, the shape will tend to drive rainwater in an arc clear of the footplate, rather than dripping down the enginemen's necks.

[Northroader]

I fancy once the old girl is moving, you’d get a nice vortex building up behind that upper lip, pulling rain back down. Certainly once the old boy had retired, the shape of the cab roof reverted to more conventional types, both wrap round and square, and the cabs were rebuilt.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

For the second loco I wanted to model I chose a MGWR standard goods engine. Martin Atock came to the MGWR from the WLWR as Locomotive Superintendant in 1872, and retired from the post in 1900, a good long innings. The first batch of ten of his goods engines were built by Stephensons in 1876 designated class L. He was busy developing the Broadstone works in Dublin to be able to be more “stand alone”, and started to build more of the class from 1876, incorporating components from earlier Hawthorn 0-4-2 goods engines, including the wheels, which were  a smaller size. I have difficulty following the tale, as there were class L, Lm, and Ln engines, the wheel size being one distinction to start with. Batches were built at Broadstone up to 1895, and Atock was able to follow a policy of completely renewing engines after twenty years service, which went by the board in the straitened times of the twentieth century. As a result the older engines changed considerably, the smaller wheels being replaced. The older engines gained Belpaire boilers, the newer engines had round top fireboxes, and would seem that this distinction stayed up to absorption into the GSR, who called them J18 and J19 classes, but then changing boilers willy nilly, as well as giving them Inchicore designs, where they were now being repaired. It seems there was also one J16 engine which was an L class with the old small wheels, which had been involved in some trial tests. With the renewals, I’m rather unclear just how many there were, 58 perhaps? Maybe more? They had numbers in the MGWR range 49-85, 104, 130-140., and GSR 563-613.

Theres a good 4mm drawing in Ernie Shepherds MGWR book I showed a couple of pages ago. I felt the need to have nicely machined chassis, so I cast around for a match. The L class had 5’3” drivers, 7’2” + 7’9” wheelbase, and I settled on the GWR 2251 class, 5’2” drivers, 7’3” + 8’3” wheelbase, as near as dammit, I felt. At the time CCW were around, and here I give a heart felt lament. In the 1950s they were doing widespread models, 4mm and 7mm, gradually specialising in 7mm, and by the time I had started in 7mm, there was a big stand at Telford GOG, full of useful goodies, and I still have a catalogue, with a nice range of Big Four kits, chassis and superstructure, not as hellishly complicated as most you encounter now, and I was planning out which would be the next to save up for, staged expenditure for how many more years, then wham! They just stopped trading! What a loss!!

Just before this happened I had my 2251 chassis off them, a bit nicer machine work than the Leinster kit, but the set up of brass strip frames, bushes and spacers was very similar, and no compensation. The coupling rods in particular were really nicely milled nickel silver. All that was needed was to shorten the back end, and move the rear frame spacer forwards. Then drill for Slaters pickups, and fit a Mashima motor and gearbox (Premier components) The tender inside frames were a lighter homemade construction with some copper clad underneath with phosphor bronze pickup whiskers. You’ll see there’s minimal detail below the deck.

The superstructure went together well from hand cut brass sheet, and a bought in brass dome, and it does have  a “in house” look very like the E 0-6-0T, apart from the “fly away” cab, a uniquely MGWR trademark, even if flying in the face of what we’ve learnt about aerodynamics.

 

You are unintentionally evoking a great desire within me to model the MGWR. Fortunately, I have too much already on my plate, but I did start wondering whether there was any space left on the test track to solder up some 21mm gauge tack!

 

My knowledge of Irish geography is shaky to say the least (largely inferred from reading the Irish RM and watching Father Ted), but did not the Quiet Man come into Galway via the MGWR (possibly on a Balfour line)?

[Northroader]

He didn’t say (see what I did there?) More than likely he did, all the sector from past Limerick to beyond Sligo could be regarded as MGWR territory, although there was a south- north line just in from the coast from Limerick to Sligo which started off as WLWR then GSWR. The top end of this, now closed, but not lifted, is known as the “Burma Road”, I’ll stick a link in for your delectation, as it’s my bedtime, and try and find a decent map tomorrow.

http://irishrailarchives.ie/2020-05-20-burma-road-claremorris-sligo-archive-photo-feature/

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Northroader