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I'm looking past the terrier to the quayside. isn't that a really good looking scene? Excellent modelling, thanks for that.

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Peter was a very skilled modeller that  dock scene was just an add on. Visitors to the railway would be asked to work the scenic sections of the layout while Peter would work the fiddle yard. He built the dock scene to allow himself to do a bit of shunting while waiting for the visitors to catch up. The main station had some large boats and also some small fishing boats these were all carefully modelled local sussex types

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I though you might like to see the photo but I will happily delete it later as it is a bit of a drift from your thread.

Don

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No please do not delete.

 

I am planning a dockside operation and such pictures are a real inspiration.  I am currently struggling with how to build a ship's hull in a realistic manner.  I know that Artitec produce some smaller ship modles but I am looking at a hull perhaps 4ft long in 1:76.

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You're right, any Sussex quaysides are most welcome, please keep it on. On the matter of ship hulls, I used to start with a ply centre strip, a sort of side elevation from prow to rudder, then add wood blocks glued each side, and form, first roughly, and trying to fit cross section templates to get the sides symmetrical and curved. From there it's either a spoke shave, or a piece of broken glass will get the shape smoother, with final sandpapering. What sort of ship were you looking at? We do free boat building classes on the side, with this thread.

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I am looking to construct a North Sea Ferry ca 1900-1910 to be ready to depart from Haltemprice Quay.

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To me that's big, about four times the size of anything I've tried, mainly fishing or sailing boats. Still, thinking around it, I was looking at TSS Duke of Clarence, which would fit your specification, 312' x 36' x15' (I would assume the last is the freeboard?) I would take it that you would do a waterline model, rather than have her stranded on the mud, showing her nicely rounded bottom, which would help reduce the thickness of the material needed, and also the work input. This comes out in OO as a block 48"long, 5.75" wide, just under 2.5" (I hope you don't mind inches, it comes with my sell-by date) It should be possible to get a block of wood this size, and I would stress a hardwood with straight grain, such as gurjun, the ordinary softwoods would give a poor finish with their grain and varying density. Then mark out a boat shape in plan view, and cut round this. Any contacts with a bandsaw? Then just bash on with wood shaping tools, slight rake at the bow, slight camber at the sides, but the stern is trickier, receding under the counter with concave curves either side of the rudder post. My dad used to help me here by roughing out the hulls on a big grindstone they had at work. The main deck also is cambered along its length, perhaps it could be left level? Then just smooth away with sandpaper.

The other way would be thick cardboard, like 2mm greyboard. Do a waterline plan shape, then make regular cross section pieces along the length, gluing down with gussets out of cornflake packets, to give a series of cells. You could then do an outer skin fixed to these, which would give you an approximate shape without the side camber, although the deck camber would be easier. At the stern the upper part would curve around the counter with the help of a D shape below, under this a straight central fin for the rudder. The problem would be fairing in the curve to the rest of the hull, as you'd need quarts of filler.

Anyhow, hope this helps the thinking process, you might have come up with something better already. Anyone else with ideas? Don't worry about being off thread and all that stuff, this is an interesting problem. WASHBOURNE is all at sea, anyway!post-26540-0-50347400-1464619308.jpeg

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To me that's big, about four times the size of anything I've tried, mainly fishing or sailing boats. Still, thinking around it, I was looking at TSS Duke of Clarence, which would fit your specification, 312' x 36' x15' (I would assume the last is the freeboard?)   [clipped]

 

 

If the dimensions you're quoting are from the Ship's Register entry then the last figure would be the "depth in the hold" (i.e. from the top of the keelson to the underside of the deck) rather than freeboard. Not a very useful figure if you're building a waterline model!

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I have started a new topic on this

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/111673-building-a-1900-1910-n-sea-ferry/

 

1.  So as not to contaminate this thread too much - though I do appreciate your kind offer to do so -

 

but more selfishly

 

2.  So that I can easily find back the information when I do start on the project.

 

 

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Yes, I suppose it's the right course of action, Andy, glad to get it started here, as its an interesting modelling exercise. I looked in at the new thread when I got back yesterday from half term holiday duties, and pleased to see how it's taking off.

Oh, well, it's a pleasant breath of sea air blowing through Washbourne, I'd like to keep the quayside shots, both for examples of quality modelling and inspiration, and as a tribute to Peter Korrison, who I'm afraid I only knew as a name.

There's something about model railways with a suggestion of quays and boats that's irresistible, I wish I'd left more room on Washbourne, but I don't have the time anyway! So I'd best tell you about the branch line the LBSC never did build, but should have done and you'd all be modelling it, so you'll just have to manage without any any pictures. It ran from a junction on the down side of the coast line at Chichester, from a bay by the exchange sidings with the HSMT (West Sussex light railway) then southwest to reach saltwater at Dell Quay. Sitting on the outside terrace of the Crown & Anchor on a summers day, with a fish dish and a pint, (it's my favourite pub) you'd never realise it was once the 7th most important port in Britain. Then on to cross the Portsmouth & Arundel canal by a swing bridge,(much superior to the Heath Robinson one a mile away for the Selsey Tram) and round past the Salterns basin, where the canal went into Chichester Harbour. In the railways days this was very run down, even the bullion traffic from Portsmouth to London had stopped. These days it's Chichester Marina, packed out with yotties. There's a short run along the fields to Birdham, which has a halt near the shore, then on to West Itchenor, crossing the high road near the Ship pub. There's a nice quayside location here, and the railway had a passing loop and a siding off to the boatyard as well. Then curving south, all pleasant flat country with fields and small woods on one side, and the tidal stretches of the Harbour on the other. This brings us to West Wittering, and there's a platform and a siding just over the bend in the road facing the "Old House at Home". The branch continues past the old church and soon reaches the terminus at the shingle spit of West Head, where the channel from the Chichester Harbour meets the sea, and Hayling Island over the other side. There's just a loop and an exposed platform serving the small pier, from which there's a ferry service (paddle steamer, natch) across to Bembridge on the Isle of Wight. Whyever wasn't it built, it's totally delightful?post-26540-0-92725200-1464792880_thumb.jpeg

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Interesting background. I do think it was the HMST rather than HSMT. I knew the area quite well. Not sure I would fancy using West Pier there are some very strong currents between there and Hayling Island. Nice for a model though.

Don

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Yep. My older cousin used to take us out around Hayling in his dinghy when I was in my early teens, and I well recall the stiff lectures from my Uncle about nasty currents off both tips of the island. They reverse according to the ebb and flow of the tide.

 

I didn't really get it, until we went on the tiny little open ferry to Gosport one day, and the skipper set-off at ninety degrees to the obvious direction, kept the engine on full throttle throughout, and the boat magically arrived at the right place on the opposite shore!

 

K

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Well, since the brief reminder of our maritime heritage, and getting this site well and truly launched, "1900 North Sea Ferries", things have gone a bit quiet on Washbourne. This is because all the action has been on my other Englefield thread, but one job which is slowly progressing is the Washbourne station building. Here it is, just needing a roof to go on, which gives you an idea of the construction. It's mounted on a base of 12mm ply, and the walls are cut out of 1/8" ply, with strip wood glued at the back of each join,giving a very solid job. (Sorry mixing metric and imperial, it's just the sizes that are lying around in the loft) It's then covered with Kirtleypetes brick paper, which I've cut in strips to give the contrasting London and red brick layers, highlighting the red brick strip with some light red paint mix, very lightly dabbed on. The arches over door and windows are from plain paper with bricks and cement courses painted on. Window and door frames are in plastikard sheet, and clear plastic sheet stuck on behind, using Glue 'n Glaze, an adhesive I get from model aircraft shops, which is good for drying completely clear- you can try to form a skin in very small jobs, even. I suppose as its a Victorian station with nice uncluttered walls, I can expect a visit from Bill Stickers at any time.

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Edited by Northroader
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This line is being made as a small branch line terminal, for restricted space, with no particular place in mind. It's intended to form a setting for running short pregroup passenger and goods trains. Having worked in most scales, N, TT-3, HO, OO, I have now settled in O gauge for about the last twenty years. This is solely because the bulk of an O gauge model appeals to me.

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To make this comparison I only had matching continental wagons, so you're looking at continental O, 1/45, and HO, 1/87; rather than British O, 1/43, and OO, 1/76; but you get the idea. Modelling in O is more expensive, and having trawled through RMweb I greatly admire the OO layouts, which sometimes are done by adapting from a pool of used and RTR models. The chances of doing this in O are very limited. To keep costs down I do a lot of scratch building, the problem here being the time it takes.

Another thing I like is pre-group modelling, generally the 1880 - 1900 period. Trains were compact, well balanced designs and attractive colour schemes. Going back to a time when kids read books, I'm showing my two favourite authors from those days, as they started my interest.

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E.L.Ahrons ran a series of articles in the Locomotive Magazine way back in the 20's about the late Victorian scene, which were later printed in book form. (As an aside if you can find bound copies of the magazine in a reference library it's a wonderful source of information, a lot of the outline drawings appear in it, for a start) Then there's C. Hamilton Ellis, who did several histories of specific lines, plus various evocative books and a lot of paintings.

The main characteristic of the line I am making is that it is very small. I never have enjoyed layouts which sprawl, and I wanted to set a very tight limit on the train sizes running on the line. After experimenting with some train make ups, I decided on a train length of 24". Sorry, I'm old enough to be all feet and inches rather than metric!

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You'll see for this length it has to be small tank engines only, no tender engines, and either three goods vehicles, or two 4/ 6 wheel coaches. Next post I'll try to explain the design, or perhaps the lack of it.

Lovely modelling.

 

I'm going to lurk, in the hope of seeing some more of that very nice Midland stock, and Bat and the Ivatt tank, having a particular interest in that kind of thing. (I can't actually read the nameplate on the J26, but it looks like one of the shorter ones: is it Bat, Fly, Wasp, or one of the others?)

 

Alan

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Hi, Alan, I'm afraid Washbourne hasn't had a post for a scandalously long time, over a month now, I'm afraid, and the LBSC station building is still waiting for tiles. The main reason is all the action has been going on with my other thread, Englefield, where I'm making steady progress, but at the expense of Washbourne. I'm also having a rethink on how the layout is done, as I'm finding the small radius point work too restrictive, and would also like to make it more adaptable, so you're very welcome to keep half an eye on it, but progress is terribly slow. I take it from your moniker that you're an Irish fan, me, too, although I'm sticking with 32mm gauge to keep things simple. I'm hoping to work in some stuff I have in with Washbourne. The 060T you were looking at is a j26, a Leinster models kit, the name's "Robin". I once met the two gentlemen who ran this firm at a GOG show, they were the nicest, most charming folks you'd ever wish to meet, and I always think the kit model world these days is far poorer for not having the simple kits they brought out. Here's a shot of another line I have, not on a thread, called "Ballycombe".

post-26540-0-25730100-1469712606_thumb.jpeg

Edited by Northroader
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Hi, Alan, I'm afraid Washbourne hasn't had a post for a scandalously long time, over a month now, I'm afraid, and the LBSC station building is still waiting for tiles. The main reason is all the action has been going on with my other thread, Englefield, where I'm making steady progress, but at the expense of Washbourne. I'm also having a rethink on how the layout is done, as I'm finding the small radius point work too restrictive, and would also like to make it more adaptable, so you're very welcome to keep half an eye on it, but progress is terribly slow. I take it from your moniker that you're an Irish fan, me, too, although I'm sticking with 32mm gauge to keep things simple. I'm hoping to work in some stuff I have in with Washbourne. The 060T you were looking at is a j26, a Leinster models kit, the name's "Robin". I once met the two gentlemen who ran this firm at a GOG show, they were the nicest, most charming folks you'd ever wish to meet, and I always think the kit model world these days is far poorer for not having the simple kits they brought out. Here's a shot of another line I have, not on a thread, called "Ballycombe".

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Not for the first time I regret the absence of a "wow" button.

 

A beautiful composition, exquisitely modelled, if I may say so.  The use of the back-scene, which is beautiful in itself and which blends perfectly with the three-dimensional scene, is particularly effective, and creates a wonderful sense of space in, I suspect, not very much space!

 

I very much enjoyed seeing that.

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Hi, Alan, I'm afraid Washbourne hasn't had a post for a scandalously long time, over a month now, I'm afraid, and the LBSC station building is still waiting for tiles. The main reason is all the action has been going on with my other thread, Englefield, where I'm making steady progress, but at the expense of Washbourne. I'm also having a rethink on how the layout is done, as I'm finding the small radius point work too restrictive, and would also like to make it more adaptable, so you're very welcome to keep half an eye on it, but progress is terribly slow. I take it from your moniker that you're an Irish fan, me, too, although I'm sticking with 32mm gauge to keep things simple. I'm hoping to work in some stuff I have in with Washbourne. The 060T you were looking at is a j26, a Leinster models kit, the name's "Robin". I once met the two gentlemen who ran this firm at a GOG show, they were the nicest, most charming folks you'd ever wish to meet, and I always think the kit model world these days is far poorer for not having the simple kits they brought out. Here's a shot of another line I have, not on a thread, called "Ballycombe".

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

I like that a lot.

 

The 2-4-0 subsequently became a G2 numbered in the 650s and got Inchicore boiler, superheater, extended smokebox and a more modern cab. She also ended up in dark grey. By way of comparison, she's in her later guise at post 11 of this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96349-arigna-town/ - Another lovely model, but I think she looks better in green livery with the fly-away cab as you have modelled her.

 

I'm confined to armchair modelling for the moment - so would love to see more.

 

By the way, I think your platform may be a touch too long for some of the stations on the Westport line!

 

Alan

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Looking at your link to Arigna Town, I thought I've seen that, I think at one of the Reading shows. It really is a beauty, puts what I'm doing to shame, and the contrast is stark for doing the 5'3" gauge properly. Have a look in my "gallery", there's some more Irish locos in there, I tend to prefer the 1900 scene as being more colourful than CIE days, although the locos were all still about, even if Inchicore had got at them!

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Very nice indeed!

 

I agree with you about the 1900 scene. My own stalled project is GSWR set in 1910 for similar reasons. I like colourful locos - though CIE's black locos and green coaches are probably more colourful than the MGWR's green locos and brown coaches, given that there are usually more coaches than locos on a train. In the end, the clincher for me was that in 1910 there were three to 5 trains a day on all lines, rather than the one a day and don't dream of trying to go and come back in the same day approach that characterised the 1950s when many lines were on their last legs: I couldn't take the nostalgia of that!

 

Opinions about Inchicore vary, and those are just my opinions. Morton rebuilt more locos than any of the other CMEs, and he was a Broadstone man, so I think the honours are probably shared.

 

I like your Est C. It reminds me of Lison in La Bete Humaine (though I know that was either a Nord or Ouest engine).

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Alan

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In the days before the poor old teachers had to write pages and pages for each topic, school reports just had a terse comment. Applying this to my two threads, Englefield is "making good progress", but I'm afraid Washbourne is "could do better". The point work is the main sticking point, the short lengths I wanted led to tight curvature, and although I showed how this could be overcome, everything needed special adaptation. The appearance of RTR locos, the Dapol Terrier especially, which I couldn't easily adapt, but could just about afford, has messed this approach up. Another less obvious one, is that to me the layout takes up space in the room, and I would like to be able to use this space for different applications, so the layout needs to be more adaptable than it is. Once my thinking has gone that far, there's things like "maybe the train length could be increased by another wagon", or "there wasn't enough space at the back of the layout", or "some space for a non-railway purpose would be nice". All of which leads me to feel Washbourne, Mark 2, is needed.

Looking at what the core of the line ought to be, I've been thinking along the line of the "Lilliput Lane" miniature ornaments. Here I should state that I'm not an interested party, acting as an agent, or anything like that. Generally they're small models of architecturally attractive buildings, which have been simplified down, what the Americans call "selective compression". They do teeter on the brink of being twee, possibly. There are a few railway stations in the range, and I'm giving sketches of two to demonstrate my thoughts:

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I feel a station building is a necessary item, just as much as the loco. in front. Obviously the loco. needs something to pull, but that would be all the essentials. From there, the question is where would the train come and go, and what else is necessary for interesting operations. Plan for the other parameters I've mentioned, and see how I can adapt the layout. Up to the loft and do some cogitating.

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Thanks for that, Simon. The strangest thing about RMweb is how there are the most amazing items of work tucked away, and I can blunder around for months and never see them. From which you'll gather it is indeed new to me, and I do like it very much, well worth considering in my planning.

Edit: since this happened, Simon Dunkley who did a post, has left RMweb and deleted his posts. The post had a link to Tweedale which is well worth a visit, so I'm reinstating the link:http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1827/entry-17764-tweedale-time-to-move-on/, that way you can understand what we were going on about.

Edited by Northroader
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Yesterday I got in a trip to the GOGtacular at Telford, enjoyable as ever. Didn't find anything as good as Argos, very envious of that kit! One thing I did get was the HMRS book "Southern Style" part 2 LBSC, and so today I was comparing the "improved engine green", a specially prepared colour swatch that came with the book. Here's a picture with the other colours masked out, taken out of doors in overcast conditions, natural Iighting only, with two of my locos. One interesting effect is that the masking paper is plain white, but has come out pale blue in the cloudy conditions, which just goes to show how colour rendition can be affected. The loco is in Phoenix Precision paint no. 476, t'other in same paint with some Humbrol Lemon Yellow added to lighten it. You'll see that I shouldn't have bothered, Phoenix have got it pretty close. The locos have a coat of satin varnish, the swatch is Matt. I'm afraid to say that Dapol 'improved engine green' is actually, just.... yellow. It's a pity, no one will want to do a repaint of their Terrier with all the beautiful lining out and lettering done properly.

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Sooner or later, I might just get one, even so. It's just the eBay keeps throwing up little delights which to me, are must have items. So the track gang are busy on Washbourne in case RTR locos do come along. It's not as big a job as what's happening at London Bridge, but a major upheaval, even so. First thing to do, the short radius points have come out, and plain track going in. Then the design is going to allow for longer trains. The original design was a try to see what I could do in a small space, but actually there was no need, because I did have more room, and ended up with something that was too restrictive as a result. Definitely "could do better".

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Fascinating. Although I'm not modelling the Brighton (actually, I'm not modelling anything, just playing trains to Masters level), I'm very tempted by that book, as a Brightonophile in all senses.

 

Do they say where the definitive improved engine green came from? There is a model in the museum at Sheffield Park that is said to have been painted with the real McCoy, and the model of Como.

 

Slight pity, really, if they have nailed it, because it will deprive the world of a great topic of debate, one that was up there with God, The Weather, and why southern 'one small bubble in the corner of the glass' beer is better than that awful creamy, frothy northern stuff.

 

Kevin

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On reflection, I think the book is worthwhile getting. My first reaction was "that much for a paperback?", coloured by the days when I'd go into a bookshop and get a book for 10/6d, but we're living in the here and now! First off there's a carefully prepared booklet of colour samples comes with it which is going to push the price up appreciably, and is valuable just for the use I put it to yesterday. This also gives detail on where to go for what paint to use in modelling, although they're not members of the car spray can brigade! It would seem the base reference of the yellow is indeed the COMO model in the Brighton Museum, although it doesn't go into the why and wherefore of how that colour was selected, but the whole work gives signs of very careful and thorough research. The loco paint jobs for the life of the company on its own is very detailed, then rolling stock, signalling, buildings have good coverage. There's some useful ideas for me in horse drawn road cartage vehicles and signage. So all in all, yes, I would recommend it, certainly to your good self as a Brighton fan, and I'm sure Paltry Circus would benefit.

I'm a Johnny come lately to the Brighton, I picked it mainly on the strength of the variety of small tank engines in the Craven era, needing to try out ideas on tight radii, but I do like it as a prototype, and hope the fourth motive power unit for the line will be a small old tender engine, now I'm relaxing on curves and lengths.

Edited by Northroader
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colour on a model, via camera, uncalibrated monitor/camera, etc, will never be 'right', also lighting where model is displayed/run/distance viewed, same for vdu, mark 1 eyeball, etc. (Never mind weathering/fading/ surface finish/reflections/etc). What looks  right for one person, is not necessarily right for another. Anyway, a bit of simple post processing can get a whitish  background (at least for me, sat here), if that is a problem, but better to set the camera for that in the first instance. I've no idea on what they based the colour swatches on, will be 'best guess', I expect..

post-18971-0-02313800-1473678979.jpg

 

 

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Ray

 

I have great respect for the diligence and precision of The Brighton Circle, and I think we can be very confident that "best guess" is the very last thing, not the first, in their armoury of techniques.

 

Kevin

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