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Re the Railway Children, you're missing the other little miss whatsername. Perhaps she's sneaked off for a fag, as per the original actress..?? (Because she was about 20 at time of filming, playing a 12yr-old, so raised some eyebrows after filming, apparently ;) )

Neat work with the brickpapers, though! :yes:

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I do like The Railway Children on the bridge, but, Edwardian, I thought that the locations that inspired Edith Nesbit were in the Sevenoaks/Knockholt area. Didn't she live there? And, have as a fairly near neighbour for a time H G Wells, with a young C Hamilton-Ellis just round the corner too?

 

Anyway (Hamilton-Ellis bit aside), that was what my mother used to tell me, every time we went through Knockholt on the train, when I was a small boy.

 

K

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I do like The Railway Children on the bridge, but, Edwardian, I thought that the locations that inspired Edith Nesbit were in the Sevenoaks/Knockholt area. Didn't she live there? And, have as a fairly near neighbour for a time H G Wells, with a young C Hamilton-Ellis just round the corner too?

 

Anyway (Hamilton-Ellis bit aside), that was what my mother used to tell me, every time we went through Knockholt on the train, when I was a small boy.

 

K

 

Kevin, I believe there to be no single location that inspired the fictitious line  (why would there need to be?) and elements from various places could have come together, but the author stayed with relatives in the vicinity of Marple, and a number of the elements found in the story combine nearby.  I will dig out my pamphlet and refresh my memory, but, first, apologies to Northroader for rambling off topic!

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Yes, sorry Northroader.

 

It is well worth reading a biog of Nesbit, because her life was mightily unconventional, and she was close pals with "everybody who was anybody" in the Fabian movement in the 1880s/90s. She and her husband fell out with H G Wells "big time", both politically, and because Wells tried to elope with one of her husband's several illegitimate daughters, leading to a punch-up at Paddington station.

 

K

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Yes, sorry Northroader.

 

It is well worth reading a biog of Nesbit, because her life was mightily unconventional, and she was close pals with "everybody who was anybody" in the Fabian movement in the 1880s/90s. She and her husband fell out with H G Wells "big time", both politically, and because Wells tried to elope with one of her husband's several illegitimate daughters, leading to a punch-up at Paddington station.

 

K

 

Some of those genteel Fabians got a bit snobby about Wells and thought him rather a scrub!

 

I shall have to look into this.  I believe that another noted Fabian with railway associations was John Ahern? 

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The most direct link to railway modelling was probably the chap that effectively founded our hobby, W J Bassett-Lowke.

 

K

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It looks as if I shall have to sneak into Miss Andromeda Yorks Private Hotel and Boarding Rooms and look if they've put anything in the register, as it looks as if there are big issues to be settled here, so don't apologise, there are plenty of stranger discussions going on this web than this. Me, I'm totally intrigued by Jordan's noting that a member of the family is missing. Like Mr Mallard, I'm totally captivated by the fair Jenny, but her sister does sound rather like a person your mother wouldn't invite to tea on a Sunday.

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I'm totally captivated by the fair Jenny, but her sister does sound rather like a person your mother wouldn't invite to tea on a Sunday.

Yeah, but... Jenny's other Film at that time was Walkabout!! :O :yes: :mosking:

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Yes, but you have to allow that she was a innocent wholesome girl who was being exploited by the salacious movie morons. You can see the sweetness of her nature shining through every time you watch it, over and over and over...

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Ended up as a Nun, apparently.  Didn't see that one coming.

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Just going back to the Railway Children, am I dreaming it or was there a televised version back in the 1950's where, I think, the opening shot was a Brighton engine emerging from Clayton tunnel?

Derek

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Did we have a telly in the 50s? Can't remember such goings on now. I sneaked into Miss York's Establishment to look at the register, she is charming, but with a steely side, and in a bad mood, saying her web had been down for three hours. Wish I knew what she was going on about, so I beat it quickly, without solving where our visitors have come from. That's a mystery that will hang in the air, just like a web, perhaps.

Anyway, let's have a look at another item of motive power running on the line. This is one of those locos you can't get enough of, single driver tank engines, as generally there weren't that many of them. The prototype was built at Brighton in 1859, number 98, intended to work in the London area. It was the first loco to work on the E.L.R., New Cross to Wapping, later transferred to the coast, and ran until 1879. The last number was 214. Like a lot of Craven locos, this was a one off class, and I've given it the final look with Stroudley cab and air brakes.

post-26540-0-11665700-1461349976_thumb.jpeg

I've built two of this sort now, and find they're quite simple to build. Usual materials were used, brass strip frames, machined frame spacers and axle bushes. Wheels from Slaters, Mashima motor and gears from Premier components. Superstructure from brass sheet. This one was made with the leading wheel set having bearings fixed in the main frames with the driving wheel bearings and having some limited side play. The trailing wheels are mounted in a pony truck which has a steel strip fixed to it to keep the wheels down, but the truck carries no loco weight. There's no springing or compensation, and the key point is that the loco is weighted with lead strip ballast so that the centre of gravity is acting just in front of the driving wheels. The motor is geared to the drivers, and placed pointing backwards in the firebox. Pickups are on the leading and middle wheels. I find they're good to pull three six wheelers quite comfortably. The first weighed nearly 2lb., 890 grams, and I did a test pulling seven wagons on a 1in 30 incline. I haven't tried the equivalent test with this one, which weighs 1lb.7oz., 630 grams, so probably a bit less traction. Behind the loco the brickies are still working on the station building.

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Now here's something for it to pull, the Washbourne Set No.1. For this we've got a 4wheel Stroudley 1st/2nd composite, and a 4wheel Craven brake 3rd, so we can cater for all tastes.post-26540-0-58367100-1462042175_thumb.jpeg

The brake third was done from drawing and information in the Oakwood Press "carriage stock of the LBSCR" P J Newbury, and is a simple assembly from plastikard mounted on a basic brass frame. The composite comes from "aid to modelling" (not a kit) made by Denis Tillman under the AnD banner. Actually it's a Billington coach with a low profile roof. (Naughty Northroader) It's comes as a pack of plastic sheets, which has a panelling overlay, then a sandwich enclosing glazing sheets. Once the body is made you have to get out and push to fettle up a chassis.

Of course, since these were made, "LBSCR Carriages" Volume 1, Kestrel Railway Books, by Messrs. White and Turner, and Mesdame Foulkes, appeared in the last year, which puts the previous book in the shade. Marvellous source, very good on matters like building methods, and you could start cutting plastikard and sticking it together on page 64, where 'early carriages' starts, and finish on page 200, where 'post 1904 modifications'ends. Always assuming you've got the time to do this, but it is an excellent book.

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Only just found this. You have built some lovely stock and the layout is coming on. It should be very nice.

Regarding the cassettes. I used 1metre long ones on sparrows wharf. This was long enough for a dock tank and six wagons (including the brake). Do be careful if you don't have stops fitted to stop stuff running off the ends. I thought things would be alright attached to a loco, however when I acquired an ABC powered and a Portescap powered loco I discovered they would roll with quite a slight tilt as the high efficiency gearboxes do not hold like the worm drive.

You can get away with quite tight curves especially if you build your stock to suit. When editing the Gazette the subject of tight curves was raised and I got a lot of letter from people who had found that it was possible to get all sorts of things round tight curves my Bulldog and Tower King will go round about 3ft although the latter does look rather silly with the bogie sticking out sideways like a dogs tongue.  Your coupling looks quite neat the usual way of doing the single link is to put the bar across close to the end so that it will push against the hook when propelling. I have seen a screw link type coupling either made or soldered rigid which had the same effect.

One thing I would counsel anyone building a compact layout it to allow a little bit of leeway on the headshunt if you can. If you build it to the minimum say just long enough for a 0-4-0 and then someone brings out a must have loco just that just a little bigger (say an O2 or a 517) you will be annoyed. On Sparrows wharf the headshunt was 16ins which could take the dock tank and a couple of wagons but could also allow the Bulldog to come in with a single coach and a van and run round. True the Bulldog looked overpowered for a single coach and van but no one objected to it at shows and it made a change from the dock tank and railmotor which shared most of the running. Obviously in your 40 ins that may not be feasible.

It is a real pleasure to see someone building unusual locos. Some who specialise in building do so but few build them to run on layouts so much seen at shows is the same as every one else's.

Don

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Donw, thanks for your comments and appreciation. The thing was as I explained at the start, I made a conscious decision to limit the train lengths to the very minimal. I'm happy with this, but with hindsight, I should have gone for a bit more layout length to use longer points. Whenever the new Peco point comes out, it should be a winner. Mine do restrict what I run, thinking here of the new Dapol Terrier, which I doubt will take my curves, so all my locos do need allowances when in the build. There are some really nice RTR models starting to appear now. Using the cassette with free rolling stock, it's quite easy to pick up and keep one of your fingers extended downwards to engage the stock whilst flying through the air. The tray the cassettes go on has an end, so the trains can't go any distance if they do overshoot.

The other bit of rolling stock to show you is a Stroudley passenger brake van. It's made from a Roxey Mouldings etched brass kit. I'm really pleased with how it went together, and the panelled finish comes over very well. It's also the first time I've managed to avoid overcooking the white metal bits! (Usually I take the escape route and Araldite them)post-26540-0-72669100-1462561156_thumb.jpeg

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Picture the scene, if you will, the erecting shop at Brighton works, in January, 1862. God Almighty, in the shape of J.C.Craven in his top hat, is approaching down the main aisle, with works supervisor, erecting shop foreman and some more assorted foremen, and head draughtsman of the drawing office, with the noise of the shop going on round them. (Note 1) They stop by one set of frames, set up on stands, with some stays riveted in. You can tell from the buffer beams at both ends it is a tank engine, and the axle box slots at the back end say four coupled. Unusually for a Brighton engine, it has the castings for outside cylinders bolted up, with quite a large space underneath. The previous year a 4-4-0 tank had appeared, one of the first in Britain, well before the better known Metropolitan Rly. engines. However, if you're a pioneer, you have more chances to get things wrong, such as side play, and the news from Battersea shed about the engines liking for the ballast was not good. Mr Craven tells the assembled throng that until the civil engineer can sort out his inferior track, they will have to make changes to the new loco. (Note2) Consequently the intended leading bogie will be replaced by a single carrying axle, and the trailing coupled wheels will be changed for another. By the following April the work has been carried out, and the engine finished as an outside cylinder 2-2-2ST. Number 4.

Not quite six years have passed, Ocober 1868, and the boss is in a very bad mood. In the erecting shop, he is surveying No.4, which has been involved in a collision. The buffer beam is smashed up, footplate angle bent everywhere, and one of the outside cylinders fractured. More changes shall be made. This time we'll go to inside cylinders, and reinstate the original plan for a four coupled engine., oh, and the leading axle can be carried in outside frames. Once this has been done, the loco returns to the London area, usually on the Kensington shuttle.

Moving on five years, and a new man is in charge. His head is full of workshop reorganisation, bigger shops, new machinery, with all the detail to worry about, and he is exasperated when no.4 turns up for shopping in the middle of this. "Not another of that mans oddities? Dear God, how can we ever run an efficient railway without standardisation? Well, patch her up, air brakes, and my new improved green" Emerging from the shops, no.4 is now no.104, and is transferred to working along the coast on local trains, and in token to this it gains the name "Lewes" It lasts another nine years until replaced by a D 042T in 1882, and gets renumbered some more, 295 in October 1876, and 365 in October 1877. (Note 3) This would make an interesting model, I thought, but I'm afraid my painting isn't up to scratch, particularly the lining.

Note 1. When the boss is coming round the works, grab a hammer, get round the back of a tender or some such, and beat s**t out of it, it creates a satisfying atmosphere of bustle and activity.

Note 2. If you're a CME, the CCE is actually not a proper engineer at all, and should be exposed as a poltroon in front of the general manager at all times. In particular, his department are at fault for every derailment. The converse is true if you are a CCE.

Note 3. D.L.Bradley, who wrote locos of the LBSCR for the RCTS, deserves full recognition for deciphering the numbering system and changes practised by this line. It is up there with the work of the Enigma section at Bletchley Park.post-26540-0-48777000-1463861799_thumb.jpeg

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Another exquisite little eccentric tank loco Northroader.

 

I think you are being a bit hard on yourself about the lining, it doesn't look the easiest loco to line and is a standard I'd be proud of!

 

There is going to be a lot of character in the rolling stock on Washbourne.

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One thing I've found visiting shows, is that most exhibitors when discussing their line can be quite critical of some facet, and don't mind you agreeing, but the colour of trains is a very touchy subject. Bearing this in mind, I'm offering my thoughts on LBSC "improved engine green", fully expecting disagreement. This subject is always good for a contentious discussion. I gather the Brighton circle are working on an analysis of a contemporaneous model which is about the only surviving match, but I haven't seen this. Then there is the national railway museum Gladstone, restored in the 20s, to give guidance. There are also excellent black and white photographs surviving, a lot giving the impression of everyday engines at work, besides freshly shopped engines, and I find the tones in these most interesting, as the engines started off from the paint shop quite a light shade, but did darken. Old photos are most notorious, especially on the matter of bright, "post office"red, which was rendered very dark. Looking at photos of Midland rly. locos demonstrates this, the buffer beams being as dark as the rest of the engine painted in maroon. We know that the same engines were lined out in lemon yellow, and the tonal values here are the same as you'd expect from a modern b.& w. photo. From this evidence, it would appear freshly shopped locos would come out a yellow slightly darker than a lemon, but quickly darkened to a shade nearer brown, and it is quite likely that Victorian paint pigments could act like this. The British railway modeller magazine ran a useful series of supplements 'liveries of pregroup railways' back around 1998 with paintings by Nigel Digby, who obviously gave this a lot of thought, and the LBSC loco in these is a very brownish yellow. With this mind, I have to say I was disappointed when the Dapol O guage Terrier came out in a shade which I felt was far too light. As a contrast I'm shewing the three locos I'm running:

post-26540-0-06830100-1464462556_thumb.jpegpost-26540-0-16379700-1464462583_thumb.jpeg

I took these pictures in daylight, the first having more obscured sunlight. Bognor and Seaford are painted straight unmixed in Phoenix Precision paints P476. with a yellow undercoat. I was talking to Mr Phoenix himself at a show, enquiring after another shade, and he told me they wouldn't do it, as they only worked off matching an actual sample of the colour, and they didn't have anything on what I was after. So you'll see that he was confident this is a true rendition. The thing is then that taking a sample from the real thing and putting it on a model, is rather like sitting with a panel of the colour in your lap, and looking up at an object that colour some distance away, the distance softens the colour, and it becomes a lighter shade. With this in mind, Lewes is painted with the same paint which has had some Humbrol 99 lemon yellow added. The other colours I used were MR midland red for the claret on Lewes, and Humbrol 60 red on Seaford, and SR maunsell green for the olive.

Other "yellow" locos were in the prehistoric GER of the Sinclair period, referred to as Canaries, and the M&GNR, who had 'light brown' engines. Rather interestingly Nigel Digby's painting for this comes out very closely to the LBSC, but there is a very subtle difference. Tricky thing, colour.

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I quite agree I.E.G is a hard colour to get "right" and to my eyes Phoenix Precession P476 looks a little to brown but it does seem to match the Hornby locos I have so at least they are similar. As I keep saying to my misses it doesn't matter so much how accurate you are as long as you are consistently inaccurate.

 

Gary

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There has been a looong discussion on RMEMag about colour.  There is no agreement about even what colour green Cambrian coaches were or even the actual early colour of the engines.  I work on the basis that as long as I have tried to match it and no one who was there at the time tells me I am wrong then I am happy.

 

I think Gary's point sums it up.

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You might like to know that the "Livery Register" for the LB&SCR has just been published by the HMRS - Southern Style Part 2.  As you might expect, a great deal of research has gone into it, including trying to establish the provenance of the longer standing examples of Improved Engine Green. The model of Como in Brighton Museum seems to be the most authoritative example. As a result of this research, EBM commissioned a series of paints. of which details are here.

I hope that this helps!

Congratulations on your collection of Craven locos - they are very nice. You could have a whole new argument about the shade of green before Stroudley's arrival!

Best wishes

Eric    

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I was sat chatting with Ken Payne in his layout room and he commented about one of his GW locos being a different colour to the others. That loco had been built and painted by Guy Williams the others by Alan Brackenborough. Both Gentlemen were/are widely respected modellers but the colours were quite different.

Don

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I hadn't spotted the new "southern style" had appeared, I must get that and compare the sample in that, although I think I'll stay consistent, which is good sense, and I CBA, as they say. The link to 'exclusively Brighton models' is useful, another thing I was unaware of. I would never compare myself to the two gentlemen mentioned, they know how to do lining out for starters, then there's the vital things like cleanness, preparation, application, all of which I'm very scruffy with. GWR green variations is interesting, looking round the pictures on threads on this site show that. Looking way back to my yoof, GWR green engines were a rarity, just a few 460s, mostly it was a sort of dusty textured dark grey, which was quite consistent!

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Ah living in Reading we saw a lot of the green ones. Sadly Peter Korrison is no longer with us he modelled the LBSC and was very knowledgeable about railways. I cannot now remember what livery this Terrier was in but it doesn't seem too far from yours

 

post-8525-0-70085800-1464536642_thumb.jpg

 

Don

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