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 I've no idea on what they based the colour swatches on, will be 'best guess', I expect..

 

As Nearholmer has said, there is rather more to it than a "best guess". A number of people have been involved in comparing known, old examples of Improved Engine Green and researching their provenance.

You would, of course, be most welcome to write up your locos for LB&SCR Modellers' Digest

Best wishes 

Eric 

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Thanks for doing a colour correction, I'm afraid I don't have the know how to do that. Interesting to see it like that.

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I am not being critical of those who think they have the 'correct colour' for a model, but matching old colours with new is more or less subjective. The first thing to decide is exactly what you are trying to achieve - a match to the original colour, as originally applied to the full size object, or a colour which looks right on a model, even though the effect of size, ambient lighting, surface finish, etc. is entirely different. You can go back to the original paint composition, if you can, and then remix using the same composition. You may or may not get the same result, bearing in mind that the original mixes would have varied between locations/periods, but without a time machine, you can't tell. At the end of the day, the best you can do is make a guess, based on whatever research results you have obtained, see if it looks right, and decide if that has to be near enough.

 

Even if you have an original sample, kept out of daylight for all its life, what other chemical degradation has occurred? Is it linear?  Then layer on top of that photography, lighting, vdu/print colour space, many folks' unknown colour blindness, the impossibility of scaling nature, and you can imagine the fun that ensues. It all becomes a bit of a religious argument, completely pointless, a bit like the slightly older one about 'how many angels can sit on a pin head'.

 

I have no specific interest in the LB&SCR, but I am interested in how folk think they can replicate colours from years ago, and be certain they are 'right'.

 

Best wishes,

Ray

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I don't think the authors claim that they are somehow "right", and/or that everything else is "wrong"; but, I think we can be sure that they've used every feasible means to be "as near right as is practicably achievable", which I, personally, wouldn't term "best guess".

 

K

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I've left you a friendly/supportive, since I am happy for you or anyone, to believe 'as near right as is practicably achievable' is significantly different than my description of achieving 'best guess'.  The snag is not necessarily in what they have done, but how the results may be used, both now, and more importantly in the future. It is just not that important to me at the moment, to try to explain further, and I'm not saying that whatever they have produced should not have been produced, or that the effort was wasted/whatever.

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I did wonder,after I'd prated-on, whether your form of words and mine might amount to the same thing.

 

K

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colour on a model, via camera, uncalibrated monitor/camera, etc, will never be 'right', also lighting where model is displayed/run/distance viewed, same for vdu, mark 1 eyeball, etc. (Never mind weathering/fading/ surface finish/reflections/etc). What looks  right for one person, is not necessarily right for another. Anyway, a bit of simple post processing can get a whitish  background (at least for me, sat here), if that is a problem, but better to set the camera for that in the first instance. I've no idea on what they based the colour swatches on, will be 'best guess', I expect..

attachicon.gifwhiter.jpg

 

Gorgeous and utterly charming.

 

Edwardian on colours:

 

1. Conduct thorough and up to date research. Canvas many opinions, preferably contradictory.Spend some time in doubt and indecision, so you feel you've done a proper job. 

 

2. Find the colour that, in your entirely subjective  view, looks nicest. 

 

3. Keep adding white until it looks right in your chosen scale.

 

4. If it's a wagon, skip steps (1)-(3) and just paint it "dirt".

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I've now started the much threatened rebuild. First off was to rewrite the spec., O gauge, of course, with an ability to take RTR, meaning much easier curvature on point work, and longer trains, including small tender engines. It would still be small and simple, but now as long as was needed, rather than tied to a previously cast off baseboard. Where it's going does have plenty of space around it for access, so that isn't a problem. If it was being jammed against a corner wall in a small room I might approach things differently. Here's a picture in which I'm trying to show the essential core that I want to start from, relating to the two sketches I made a month ago, but the loco now has a train added. A Lilliput lane model maker would probably say I'm a bit light on foliage! You'll note the components have all been lifted from my Irish "Ballycombe" line, which will be snowballed into this job, as well as other projects as I progress. The makeup of this set is 31" long, and I want to go up to 38" maximum.

post-26540-0-92881000-1474743934_thumb.jpeg

Looking at movements for the train, this either could be in a through station or a terminus, but the reception lines would then add either twice, or once the length respectively, so it had best be a terminus. The thing I particularly like about Tweedale, which Simon put forward, is that there are scenic views along the full length. The operation there is more for a few wagons being shunted in a zig zag, for the passenger trains I need I'm just keeping to a zig, or a zag as the case may be. The main element of trackwork are well advanced, once it's ready I will place it on a large piece of ply, and work out where to cut the edges, sorry, I don't do Templot!

Edited by Northroader
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I've now started the much threatened rebuild. First off was to rewrite the spec., O gauge, of course, with an ability to take RTR, meaning much easier curvature on point work, and longer trains, including small tender engines. It would still be small and simple, but now as long as was needed, rather than tied to a previously cast off baseboard. Where it's going does have plenty of space around it for access, so that isn't a problem. If it was being jammed against a corner wall in a small room I might approach things differently. Here's a picture in which I'm trying to show the essential core that I want to start from, relating to the two sketches I made a month ago, but the loco now has a train added. A Lilliput lane model maker would probably say I'm a bit light on foliage! You'll note the components have all been lifted from my Irish "Ballycombe" line, which will be snowballed into this job, as well as other projects as I progress. The makeup of this set is 31" long, and I want to go up to 38" maximum.

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

Looking at movements for the train, this either could be in a through station or a terminus, but the reception lines would then add either twice, or once the length respectively, so it had best be a terminus. The thing I particularly like about Tweedale, which Simon put forward, is that there are scenic views along the full length. The operation there is more for a few wagons being shunted in a zig zag, for the passenger trains I need I'm just keeping to a zig, or a zag as the case may be. The main element of trackwork are well advanced, once it's ready I will place it on a large piece of ply, and work out where to cut the edges, sorry, I don't do Templot!

 

If Castle Aching ever achieves a flavour of such a scene, I shall be more than content!

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I'll swap my bare ply and hardboard for your buildings?

 

At least you've got baseboards!

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Actually, the baseboard in that pic. is the old one, which is definitely too short, and maybe a tad too narrow, and so condemned. The fiddle yard baseboard is already junked. However, you may recognise that when scrapping the old line and changing to a new one with a bright rosy future, it's best to do it as imperceptibly as possible to avoid detection by the boss, otherwise you come in for critical comments, certainly if it's been happening for as long as I've been making layouts and then changing them.

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Indeed.

 

I'm plotting a rather difficult-to-make-imperceptible layout change currently, so trying to devise a camouflage technique.

 

Since I need inspiration, I will outline the problem: when I created the utility room (where my railway lives), Plan A involved a worktop, all the way round, with cupboards below, thereby maximising the flexibility of layout-creating space. However, a full-height broom-cupboard was insisted-upon, and, it is has been a B nuisance from the start. It has never been used to store brooms, or other long-handled things, and it currently has a single-track tunnel through it, the rest of the space being filled with household "might come in useful one day" stuff.

 

What we (notice how I've dragged you in?) need to do is: get rid of a broom-cupboard, and replace it with worktop and low cupboard in accordance with Plan A, thereby permitting a serious revision to one side of the layout, which will include giving the facility to plug Paltry Circus into things sometimes.

 

So: how do we remove a seven foot tall, by two feet, by two feet cupboard, without that being noticed?

 

Answers on a postcard, please.

 

Kevin

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Indeed.

 

I'm plotting a rather difficult-to-make-imperceptible layout change currently, so trying to devise a camouflage technique.

 

Since I need inspiration, I will outline the problem: when I created the utility room (where my railway lives), Plan A involved a worktop, all the way round, with cupboards below, thereby maximising the flexibility of layout-creating space. However, a full-height broom-cupboard was insisted-upon, and, it is has been a B nuisance from the start. It has never been used to store brooms, or other long-handled things, and it currently has a single-track tunnel through it, the rest of the space being filled with household "might come in useful one day" stuff.

 

What we (notice how I've dragged you in?) need to do is: get rid of a broom-cupboard, and replace it with worktop and low cupboard in accordance with Plan A, thereby permitting a serious revision to one side of the layout, which will include giving the facility to plug Paltry Circus into things sometimes.

 

So: how do we remove a seven foot tall, by two feet, by two feet cupboard, without that being noticed?

 

Answers on a postcard, please.

 

Kevin

Cut a lump out of the middle at worktop height, and turn it into a base unit and a wall unit. Then put sides and a door in the gap. When the management notice, say that as long things weren't kept in it, you thought it made sense to turn it into separate cupboards, as it would be better for storing small things. Once that's been accepted, wait a while then suggest removing the middle cupboard as it's not big enough to be much use.

 

I only have a four legged hairy boss, who doesn't give a toss what I do to the house, as long as her food storage isn't disrupted!

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So: how do we remove a seven foot tall, by two feet, by two feet cupboard,.......

I was going to suggest 'with a big hammer' until I read the '.......without being noticed' bit!   :nono:

 

I think bribery and corruption might be the order of the day.   Perhaps Edwardian might offer to defend you in the resulting proceedings?

 

Jim

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Very, very tricky. I like BG johns idea, as selling changing the broom cupboard to a better use of space cupboard unit with shelves, but then finding a high level storage unit for the top two shelves as being cheaper, and anyway the lower half of the cupboard is built into the rest of the unit, so if a cupboard goes above it will be even better, and a gap is left under... Would the gap need to be covered by a scenic frieze for starters? Maybe not, ..Or, what about if you got a high level wall cupboard, put that in, and once that was in use convince her that the broom cupboard could be replaced with a second one. So she can have a row of cupboards at eye level, most useful (I hope she's not petite) and you've got say two foot high strip above the table top? Best not get Edwardian involved, he's been retained for the Brangelina case, and we don't want that sort of thing happening.

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Of course, women are more sensitive to fashion trends than men, so it's getting her to see that broom cupboards are no longer de trop, - were they ever? But that idea has got to get to her without your pawmarks on it.

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Thanks chaps, and sorry for the diversion.

 

No high-level cupboards, because Mrs Nearholmer is indeed petite.

 

Best course of action feels something like: build-up significant credit by actually completing some other jobs around the place (danger that this will arouse suspicion, because it is so out of character!); gently introduce discussion of need for a modest tall cupboard in the kitchen, where the broom etc actually spend all their time, because they are readily to hand; create said cupboard, re-using the door from one in utility room; decommission one in utility room, because it looks a real mess with no door ......

 

Again, apologies for diversion.

 

Kevin

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I think quid pro quo is the way to go. There must be something that Mrs Nearholmer wants more than a semi-redundant broom cupboard.  With the Mem, it's usually something to do with horses. 

 

Mind you, I would not suggest to the Party of the Second Part that this tall item of furniture is redundant qua broom cupboard, because that was your wife's idea, and, suggesting that it is no longer needed as a broom cupboard, though true and accurate, would probably not be the way to go. 

 

Rather, you might make the theme of your submissions the great sacrifice she would endure as a result of the loss of her broom cupboard, and how nothing short of a [insert bribe here] would suffice to make it up to her.  Even better, you could offer her the alternative between alternative broom storage and something she really wants.

 

Alternatively, you could simply adopt my fall-back position of never being worth enough to be worth divorcing.

 

Nothing in this post is intended to be relied upon, and does not constitute legal advice.  Further no retainer arises between the poster and any reader of the post. By reading this post, the reader agrees to hold harmless the poster and indemnify in relation to any loss or damage howsoever arising from this post. If in doubt the reader should seek independent legal advice concerning the content of this post.

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Best course of action feels something like: build-up significant credit by actually completing some other jobs around the place (danger that this will arouse suspicion, because it is so out of character!); gently introduce discussion of need for a modest tall cupboard in the kitchen, where the broom etc actually spend all their time, because they are readily to hand; create said cupboard, re-using the door from one in utility room; decommission one in utility room, because it looks a real mess with no door ......

 

 

 

Oh my prophetic soul!

 

Mind you, if people keep working out the answers for themselves, they won't need lawyers, which we be a truly terrible thing.

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Strange thing is, Edwardian, I am working with lawyers this week, to identify a way of resolving a significant difference between two parties over the interpretation of some contact clauses, without causing so much acrimony as to effectively defeat the purpose of the contract. The sums at stake are very substantial indeed, but somehow it feels less complicated than 'the broom cupboard question'!

 

Kevin

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Get rid of the wife, and get a dog. It makes life much simpler. The ex will probably find a new mate, and there are lots of homeless dogs out there who would be grateful for a wonderful home, and who will have no interest in broom cupboards.

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Call me sentimental (nobody else ever has!), but I am exceedingly fond of my partner and family.

 

Besides, before their sad departure, our dogs were very interested in cupboards, specifically the one I used to keep their food in, and had to be banned from unaccompanied visits to the utility room, because they worked out how to open it, and created a giant mess during the subsequent 'pig out'.

 

K

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