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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, clachnaharry said:

 

I wonder what the reason for that move was - points failure perhaps, or attaching a van to the rear of the train?

 

... or they were cleaning the southern platform, or the outgoing formation was too long for the platform, or they made a mistake and gravity-shunted the carriages into the wrong platform after the previous service, or ...

Edited by aardvark
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Yesterday, I took some bravery pills and sprayed my first turnout.

 

IMG_20200406_145442058.jpg.7c767ae28e8dfcf7f94a8492a436337d.jpg

 

During the 4 years to get to this point, I've reading any number of threads and blogs that talked about the need to mask off points before spraying, but I was never entirely sure I understood why.  Two possibilities: electrical conductivity, and general gumming up of the mechanism.

 

I'm using bonded point rails and droppers in each length of track, so I don't need to rely on physical contact of the point rails to the stock rails for conductivity.  Further, I reasoned that the open point didn't require masking since the point rail and srtock rails aren't in contact and therefore couldn't get stuck together.

 

So I just masked off  the closed point with sliver of tape trimmed to the sides of the rails (upper in the photo).

 

I was delighted that it all came out ok, with nothing get stuck, and the switch mechanism apparently unaffected by a light spraying.  Phew!!  Moreover, there's a minimum that will need to be touched up by brush.

 

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A recent post by JZ on Ben Alder's The Far North Line thread shows the interior of the Garve goods shed, including cart bays indented into the shed floor.   This has me wondering whether I should model cart bays at Banff.  Further, Ben says:

 

12 hours ago, Ben Alder said:

Bit of a grey area - interior views of goods sheds are like rocking horse droppings - and AFAIK, many of these cart bays were filled in to give a wider unloading space at some time in their history.

 

So, without any evidence, I can go either way.

 

Since this side of the Banff goods shed faces the observer (should I ever find one), then perhaps cart bays (complete with a cart) would add an interesting vignette to the scene.

 

or maybe I've just found something else to procrastinate over :unsure:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Step 5: cut and glue down 5mm sub-foam.

 

P1160380.JPG.f92286e75a7a2648b1f819eb0da3c7f7.JPG

 

Two baseboards are shown here.  The more distance one has cutouts where turnouts will go.

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I've always had a soft spot for Banff but because it was gravity shunted its put me off as a model. 

 

One of Cyril Freezers first trackplan books has a very nice interpretation of Banff but with a runaround added which would make it easier to operate.

 

Macduff across the bay has a much easier to operate trackplan, another I've thought of doing. I have a D40 to build so maybe one day.

 

The buildings you've drawn in sketch up look great, I wish I had the skill to use that programme, it would make doing buildings easier. I look forward to seeing your layout grow.

 

 

 

 

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On 03/04/2020 at 23:44, aardvark said:

 

... or they were cleaning the southern platform, or the outgoing formation was too long for the platform, or they made a mistake and gravity-shunted the carriages into the wrong platform after the previous service, or ...


My next-door-neighbour-but-one hails from Banff and is of the right age to remember the passenger service, so when I saw him digging his flower bed this afternoon I asked him about the longer platform. He confirmed he’d never seen it used for departing trains. However he also mentioned that summer Saturdays could see trains of up to seven or eight coaches from Glasgow, often behind a D40, “Gordon Highlander” being the one which stuck in his memory; and Caley 0-4-4T 55185.

 

He’s going to consult various older relatives for other memories so I’ll pass on anything of interest.

 

Good luck with your project

regards

Graham

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4 hours ago, Graham R said:

My next-door-neighbour-but-one hails from Banff and is of the right age to remember the passenger service, so when I saw him digging his flower bed this afternoon I asked him about the longer platform. He confirmed he’d never seen it used for departing trains. However he also mentioned that summer Saturdays could see trains of up to seven or eight coaches from Glasgow, often behind a D40, “Gordon Highlander” being the one which stuck in his memory; and Caley 0-4-4T 55185.

 

Graham: I can't thank you enough for this information, or the consideration to gather it.  Anything further that you are your neighbour can reveal will be equally well received.  A formation of such length would have been much too long for the shorter southern platform, and may well explain the photo earlier.

 

Your neighbour might be interested in Banff & Macduff when you were a kid on Facebook,  I stumbled over a photo of my father-in-law there!!

 

A quick search shows that Gordon Highlander is preserved at the Scottish Railway Museum at Bo'ness.

 

My own sister-in-law emigrated from Banff in 1958 (I think), but was only 8 at the time and has no memory of the station as she and her brother weren't allowed to go down to the station, which is both understandable and unfortunate.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I had previous known about britainfromabove.org.uk,  and that you can download low-res images for personal use (free).  I have only just learnt that if you create an account (also free), then you can zoom into high-res versions of their images.

 

Hence, I have a better view of the mysterious northern side of the goods shed.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

When I come to it, the plan is for the Beginner’s Banff buildings to be constructed using differing techniques. 

 

Where I can get away with simple painting, the signal box and goods shed will be in embossed plasticard over a carcase of double 0.040” plasticard as described by Paul Bason in his excellent book Scratch-Built Buildings.

 

The station building, engine shed, water tower, cottages, retaining walls, coal merchant offices and whatever I do with the town end of the layout, all of which feature stone and hence beyond my ability to paint convincingly, will be constructed using “brick” papers.

 

I’ve struggled to find beginner instructions for “brick” paper construction.  Vendors like Scalescenes have tips and tricks of working with their products, but stop short of making a building. There are plenty of tutorials on how to assemble a card kit, but this is a different thing.

 

I did finally manage to find copies of Doug Dickson’s useful Cardbard Modelling the Scalescenes Way which have otherwise disappeared with the defunct www.model-railways-live.co.uk.

 

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=10095&forum_id=101#p202511

 

I’m still somewhat puzzled with covering the ends of the underlying carcase sides.  I know I carry the paper around the end, but the few photo examples suggest one piece of “brick” paper per carcase side, which would leave paper joins on show close to building corners.  I have read that such joins might be hidden behind downpipes, but the Banff buildings don’t always have downpipes in convenient locations.

 

Edit: another "How to" post by Doug Dickson: http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=3290&forum_id=14

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  • 1 month later...

I still haven't actually laid any track yet, but I am getting closer. Promise.

 

Recently, I've been painting track.

 

P1160389.JPG.bb9dc0cc940a62137ce81b0a8035fce9.JPG

 

From the left, we have:

  1. C&L flexitrack (thin sleeper);
  2. sprayed with Citadel Mechanicus Standard Grey; then
  3. sploshed with Citadel Nuln Oil; then
  4. brushed over with Citadel Dawnstone.

I'm reasonably happy with the result, but I should have taken this comparative photo earlier in the process, as I see now that I'm might be being heavy-handed with the Dawnstone.  Not bad enough to warrant re-painting what I've done, but something to keep an eye on.

 

I don't know whether it's worth the trouble, but it doesn't really matter does it?  For me, this is a pastime, and I can pass it painting track as doing anything else.  To be honest, I was discouraged by the prospect of this painting, until I recalled the 15 Minute Hero series of articles: the idea being that I didn't need to do it all in one sitting, just a bit a day, just a few minutes, and in the end it would be done.

 

Some thought has also been given to disguising the ballast gap around the turnout tiebars - the bit were you don't want ballast lest it gum up the points.   I liked the idea of DCC Concepts tiebar labels, but a) I'd have to order then from the UK, and b) they only come in one colour.  I was wondering how I might make my own, and was considering what DIY print-it-yourself "brick" paper would have acceptable colour and texture.   Ben Alder suggested that I take a photo of the ballast I am going to use, and print that (don't know why I couldn't think of that myself), which I did, but nothing is ever easy, is it?

 

P1160387.JPG.171549b17d7b0597ad088e473fe3a425.JPG

 

In fact I printed it twice, and this is a photo of both.  The print on the left was done at my local library for A$0.60/A4 and is unexpectedly and unacceptably purplish in hue.  The one on the right is from a printing shop for A$1,10/A4.  My plan is to cut the latter into small pieces with a slot in each, and to stick them to the underside of the turnouts using a gluestick.

 

The photographed ballast is Green Scene 2mm Scale Black Ash Ballast.  I plan to use a mix of 2 and 4mm on the "main" line, 2mm in the sidings, and 2mm plus coal ash in the engine sidings.  Given my learning from above that I should take photos as I go along, here's a photo of the 2mm and 4mm ballast, unmixed.

 

P1160390.JPG.86394b5520fe9e78abf0d944fe7686b9.JPG

 

I was happy to be able to see the difference, as only one of my packets of ballast had a label on it :nea_mini:

 

In the next couple of days, I hope to get some ballasting done with this mix.

 

Yes, ballast first, then track laying.

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I've been thinking about it for a while, and decided to make a few modifications to my baseboards before they get track laid.

 

First was changing the bolts joining the boards (3 at each join) from ¼" bolt, nut and two washers to M8 bolt, T-nut and one washer.  This reduces the number of things I have to juggle upside-down while joining boards from 6 to 3 (including tools).

 

The second was to add a little shelf under one end of each baseboard to temporarily support the next board while joining them.  I use brass pattern-maker dowels to ensure correct alignment, but have found it quite fiddly to position an unwieldy baseboard onto the dowels.

 

P1160391.JPG.85f1ca040a95849f7bf2cbe5c2aaea01.JPG

 

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Posted (edited)
On 25/07/2020 at 18:23, aardvark said:

I still haven't actually laid any track yet ...

 

I still haven't, but I have just ballasted some, and I simply can't stop myself from posting twice in one day. :yahoo_mini:

 

As a beginner, everything can be so confusing because there seem to be as many ways of doing something as there are modellers. Well, almost.  Classically, ballasting falls into two methods identified by St. Enodoc as ballast first and glue first, but I'm doing neither of those by using Tracklay, as recommended by my friend and mentor Ben Alder.

 

Basically, it's a strip of closed-cell foam with adhesive on one side - you stick the track to the foam, then rub the ballast over, shake off, and you're done.

 

P1160392.JPG.8d5543aca486c6f74d7f13bf78262913.JPG

 

No glue getting in the wrong places, no water mist, no detergent, no waiting for it to dry, no vacuum. Time taken to ballast one 500mm length of track: about 10 minutes, including the time to remember where I had stored things.

 

Above shows a wooden jig I made up to hold the foam while positioning the track. It also helps contain the ballast while pressing it down with the Ballast Compaction Device (index finger), which was an unexpected bonus.

 

Here's the track out of the jig:

 

P1160393.JPG.66d1261c5062c8e57c738e97e5221e75.JPG

 

The ballast looks very good to this beginner, but those droppers :bo_mini:

 

I turned the track over, slit through the Tracklay, and pulled the wires through.  This dislodged a little ballast from around the cut, which I had to replace, but otherwise ...

 

P1160394.JPG.ccef3f100e6a535565f48244ab909916.JPG

 

All this was done over a sheet of newspaper: just pick it up and poor the excess ballast back into its container for re-use.

 

Next will be ballasting turnouts ...

 

Edited by aardvark
grammar
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Hi Dean,

 

The pattern makers dowels are excellent. I wished I used them on all joining basebaords for my layout instead of 1/4 bolts.

Even with my best efforts some parts of the layout didn't maintain the level of horizontal alignment I would prefer.

At least I will know for next time.

 

Regards

 

Rodney

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, trw1089 said:

Great to see stuff moving along Dean.  Onwards and upwards!

 

Thanks Tony - I'm pretty happy to see some progress too :rolleyes:.  Hoping I can keep the enthusiasm up.  Has it really been 2½ years since you showed me around your layout?

 

On a separate thread where I was learning to understand the signalling diagram for Banff, in response to a discussion about the difficulty of modelling gravity shunting,  St. Enodoc suggested ...

 

On 10/07/2020 at 20:03, St Enodoc said:

An alternative would be to have a spare engine, either a station pilot or another passenger loco, waiting in the shed area. Also not prototypical but not as bad as adding extra tracks?

 

I would have to agree that having a non-prototypical station pilot hiding in the loco shed would be more acceptable than installing a non-prototypical passenger run-around loop or other track hackery (trackery?).  It would also add some model operational interest, and be trivial to revert when (if) I get up to modelling gravity shunting with motorised carriage(s) and/or wagon(s).

 

With this idea in mind, it occurs to me to pick up a Barclay 0-4-0ST for this purpose.  I know, I know - Barclays were industrial locos and would never have been used for such purposes - but, you see, Barclay was the given name of my father-in-law who emigrated from Banff in 1958.  My wife was very excited to see one at Minehead when we were there in 2015, so just maybe the appearance of a Barclay on the layout in BR black might be worth some brownie points.

 

Or have I lost all my marbles??  :crazy:

 

Edited by aardvark
grammar - why do I only ever seen these things after pressing the Submit Reply button?
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  • 2 weeks later...

First up, here’s the ballast paper applied to a turnout:

 

P1160395.JPG.64f0a5d485aa633c8f59cc05c23fa72d.JPG

 

P1160396.JPG.cce5aa56b3510e9f6918227855ff7216.JPG

 

I’m installing trackwork over a 5mm foam base.  Plain track additionally goes on 1.5mm TrackLay.  In the following, I’m ballasting Peco unifrog points (4mm on 1.7mm sleepers).  These are laid on a cut-out of the 5mm foam, plus some card packing to bring the railhead to the same height as the plain track.

 

P1160397.JPG.14ab5e268931eafacf921813f6f96f9c.JPG

 

The position of the droppers and tiebars were transferred from the turnouts onto the cut-out, the cut-out installed into the baseboard, then holes drilled through.

 

The cut-out was then removed from the baseboard, the droppers introduced into their respective holes, a liberal coating of water-based carpet glue applied (no Copydex in Australia), but away from the tiebars.  The turnouts were then seated into the glue and the droppers pulled through.  Finally, the 2+4mm ballast mix sprinkle over and pressed down with the Ballast Compaction Device.

 

The result looks fairly good ...

 

P1160399.JPG.5d7bd49dc4de27d8734df1b21cb64934.JPG

 

... but will require a bit of cleanup in 24 hours when the glue has dried ...

 

P1160400.JPG.eddd22bb1511c33942623d0bdd35b0b8.JPG

 

... and I discover whether I have been successful in keeping the glue away from where it shouldn’t be.

 

Only downside so far is that I have some the fingers and droppers also got a bit of ballasting, so next time I will try cleaning them off with a damp cloth before applying the ballast.

 

While looking for something, I discovered some DCC Concepts ballast that I had bought early on.  The LB-2SE Dark Grey Blend is a tad darker than the Green Scenes GS414, but otherwise similar in appearance, so I’ve mixed some through – waste not. I also have some LB-2LG Grey  Blend which is useless to me for ballasting, but might get used for scenic things sometime.

 

On the subject of ballast, I only noticed today that neither Green Scenes nor DCC Concepts tell you the weight of their products – perhaps other manufacturers are the same.  For the record: Green Scenes are 125g, while DCC Concepts are 206g, both without the containers. 

 

See you all in 24 hours for the big reveal!!

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It looks good – and nothing is gummed up :o.

 

P1160401.JPG.ccfc4a8a16521c826508fb1b14f061b2.JPG

 

P1160402.JPG.e83f4e044268be493e12dc99055f56f4.JPG

 

Cleaning ballast out of the frog and checkrails is tedious, but I can’t see much to do about that.  I could mask off the frog, but you actually need the ballast to go down between the stock and check rails in order to ballast that part of the underlay. Oh well. :unknw_mini:

 

P1160403.JPG.ecbf7c783ea3988f58dbdea70f0d1cea.JPG

 

A bit of ballast needed down the edges, and the sides of the rails need painting.  These will be sorted out once all the tracks are planted, and the in-fill between the tracks is in place.

 

Note to self: tidy up background before taking photos.

 

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4 hours ago, aardvark said:

It looks good – and nothing is gummed up :o.

 

P1160403.JPG.ecbf7c783ea3988f58dbdea70f0d1cea.JPG

 

A bit of ballast needed down the edges, and the sides of the rails need painting.  These will be sorted out once all the tracks are planted, and the in-fill between the tracks is in place.

 

Hi.

 

An interesting approach.  I presume that the points were painted before you stuck them down and ballasted, based on your earlier posts about painting points and track?  If so I wonder about the need to paint the rail sides?  I had a look earlier in the thread and found this colour picture:  

22-08-2010 13;58;14 (2)

 


Looks to me that the sides of the rails are essentially “of a piece” with the rest of the track.  
 

Painting rail sides an orange “rust“ colour seems to be one of those modelling “things”, where modellers copy other modellers, rather than look at the real thing!

 

Alternatively, if you want to paint them in some way, why not do that as part of the other painting, when you can hold the point in your hand and therefore get at the rails easier?  Even if you want to do it after ballasting the same applies.  My experience of layout building (club ones, some while ago now) was to paint all the track “track colour” after laying but before ballasting.  I suppose others could have thought that looked wrong as well!

 

Hope these thoughts are of assistance.  Regardless, keep going!

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13 hours ago, 26power said:

Hope these thoughts are of assistance.  Regardless, keep going!

 

Hey 26power: thanks for your supportive post.  A few points, which I'll attempt to address.

 

But first, my caveat: I'm a beginner, I've never built a layout before, and I'm not a member of any club. I'm making it up as I go along.  However, I'm not without a safety net, having spent 4+ years following other people efforts.

 

Most notably, I am indebted to Ben Alder, who continues to be the mentor I might have found at a club.  In my early days, Ben expressed an interest in the same locale, and when I looked as his The Far North Line, I figured I could do a lot worse than attempt to replicate his work.  Following a mentor does make life easier for a beginner.  A lot easier.

 

So: yes, the points are track are painted and ballasted before being laid.  Not the normal order of activity, I grant you, but using Tracklay does change things around.

 

Painting rail sides an orange “rust“ colour? No thanks: Ben advocates Humbrol Track Colour.

 

The colour picture? Ben says:

 

On 20/05/2012 at 23:57, Ben Alder said:

Trying to guess what the true shade is on a fifty plus year old colour pic is problematic, due to fading and colour casts that plague early colour emulsions. There is not a lot of relevant material to start with, and once you discount those with a blue content or dubious balance, it is turning out to be guesswork. I have seen the same shot of shunting at Helmsdale reproduced three or four times, and each image has quite different interpretations of the overall scene :banghead: , which makes deciding what shading to follow somewhat difficult.

 

 

Paint the rails before laying: this would be easier for the turnouts, but not possible for flexitrack, where some will be curved during laying, thereby exposing patches of shiny metal from beneath the chairs.

 

Need to paint the rail sides? Maybe: my previous photo with the wagon looks pretty good, and so the grey that they're sprayed with will do for now.  It does seem likely that I will need to return to painting the rails, at least to touch up the exposed shiny metal.  Time will tell.

 

I'm hoping that painting the rail sides will be a little easier with "portable" (1.2m) baseboards, as I can stand them on their sides, making the rail sides horizontal and therefore (hopefully) easier to paint.

 

cheers!!

 

 

 

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Hi.  Thanks for your response.  Very kind of you to put so much effort into it and I hope it hasn’t taken up too much of your modelling time!  I have followed your thread for a while, and also Ben’s various ones.


I think my query about whether the points had been painted was because it wasn’t very clear to me from your pictures that they had been, although it does seem clearer looking at them again.  Perhaps it was the use of grey that threw me a bit, or that in the side on picture the grey was a bit reflective/shiny and therefore looked unpainted?

 

I think I also misunderstood about the underlay approach for plain track or just not thought about it when seeing the pictures of the points.  I.e. not appreciating that flexi track would still be flexible, and therefore there would be movement of rails.  I probably just thought that plain track was made up into modular pieces that then don’t need further adjustment, but I can see that some small movements would be needed even if that was the case.

 

Regardless, big relief about you not using orange “rust” colour!
 

I understand the difficulties of interpreting colours from pictures.  My point was probably more that rail sides, in this case, are generally not a distinctly different colour from the rest of the track, which is probably what jars with me when seeing layouts where an orange rust is used.   Maybe I was also thrown by you not just painting all the track with “track colour”!
 

If I recall correctly from my involvement in club layouts we had used Precision paints for painting track, mainly because it could be obtained in a bigger tin than Humbrol, although maybe also not that conscious that Humbrol did such a colour.  Anyway, all quite a long time ago, and also when you have decided on a method/material it seems logical just to repeat that way/use the same material the next time.


The ability to stand boards on their side sounds like it might make painting rail sides easier.  Maybe you even just need to do the one, viewable side?  I also vaguely recall that there was some sort of tool for doing this - a wheel which transferred the paint from a jar to the rail?  Sorry to be vague but just seem to recall mention of it in magazine articles etc., never having actually used one.

 

Perhaps ultimately you will end up weathering the laid track to make it even more realistic.

 

Anyway more power to your elbow!

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Thanks for your support 26power.   I am humbled that you and 25 others find anything of value here.

 

Regrettably, neither Precision nor RailMatch paints are unavailable in Australia, so we do the best we can with Humbrol, Tamiya, Vallejo and Citadel.  Nothing convenient like Sleeper Grime or Rusty Rails :unknw_mini:

 

I don't really expect to equal Ben Alder's work: he has 40+ years experience and has professional experience with colours, whilst I, on the other hand, have 4+ years experience reading RMWeb and failed art in kindergarten.

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Hi Aard, not an expert or anything, just interested in your Scottish project. I’m doing Arbroath shed and environs, but I’m not on here. Just a thought about your ballast. The crushed ‘stone’ Looks OK for the mainline, but if you haven’t already, have a look at Steve Fays Cardiff Canton, or his Smoke Ash and Steam for the shed areas. To me, they’re the definitive ways to do it. Keep up the good work
cheers Les

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11 hours ago, Les Johnson said:

Hi Aard, not an expert or anything, just interested in your Scottish project. I’m doing Arbroath shed and environs, but I’m not on here. Just a thought about your ballast. The crushed ‘stone’ Looks OK for the mainline, but if you haven’t already, have a look at Steve Fays Cardiff Canton, or his Smoke Ash and Steam for the shed areas. To me, they’re the definitive ways to do it. Keep up the good work
cheers Les

 

Thanks Les, I'll have a look.

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The ballasting of the turnouts is complete, so (surprise!) it’s on to actually track laying.  I was just about to start with the first length of C&L flex track when I suddenly thought about expansion gaps.  Another thing to procrastinate over.

 

I read a post by 34C on ModelRailForum that:

Quote

The nickel silver used for rail expands almost exactly 1mm over a meter length with a 50C temperature change. So a 1mm gap if laying at 20 centigrade, will give enough expansion space for a maximum temperature of 70 centigrade.

 

This fits well with other comments I’ve read, including to use a credit card to set the gap (mine’s 0.82mm).  I’ve also read about the use of business cards (ones I have are 0.28-0.5mm), but this would depend on the length of the track, the maximum temperature that you need to cope with, and the temperature you’re laying your track at.

 

70°C sounds a bit excessive, so if I consider 60°C max in my garage and I’m laying 0.5m half-lengths, then that’s 0.4mm gap for track laid on 20°C days, less for warmer days, and less for shorter tracks.

 

Maybe I should buy some feeler gauges.  Yes, I probably don’t have to be that accurate, but there’s little reason not to be.  I could just use a business card, but there is the risk that it might compress with use.

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