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farren

The Palatine

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Hi I am currently trying to build the Train the Palatine for my future layout.

 

The set according to the book operation Midland. The Palatine is made up from

 

Br mk1

BTK (24)#

FK (42) ?#

CK (24/16) #

TK (48)

 

Ex LMS ×

TK (42)

BTK (24) ×

TK (42)

CK (18/24)

RESTAURANT (BUFFET) COM (12/18)

TO (36)

 

#BACHMAN

×Hornby

 

I am still a bit new to coaching and would lile to double check I am buying the right coaches. The ones I have marked with manufacturers I have ordered. The one with a question mark is I am sure iv seen but yet to buy.

 

Now the other I can't find. Have any of the others been available as Rtr.

 

And are porthole coaches classed has BR or ex-LMS? Has I understand it they were built under BR before the Mk1's introduced. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Edited by farren

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It depends what date you are modelling. In one of the Bradford Barton books there is a photo dated 1959 where the train engine is a rebuilt Patriot and the train is all Mark 1s except for a 12-wheel Restaurant Car.

The formation at that time being:

 

BCK London end

FK

FO

Restaurant Car (12 Wheeler)

SK

SK

SK

BSK Manchester end

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Cheers for the information. Should have known it wasn't going to be that easy. I was modelling br 1950-55. Saying that though I did buy a tender drive britannia to convert to Morning Star thinking the photo was the palatine with morning star at the head of it at Leicester in 1958. After re-reading the caption and insert it's motive power seems to have been the black5's and rebuilt scotts. Has operation Midland tables I'm using are set to 1958 I have been thinking of moving my modelling to 1958 to make my life easier.

 

So in sort 1958.

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Don't forget that Jubilees were the staple motive power for the Palatine for many years before the Britannias moved in. I understand that the Brits didnt like the curvature on the line over Peak Forest and that was why they were replaced by rebuilt Scots and Patriots.

 

Will you be stretching your time scale to include a Blue Pullman and some Metrovics?

 

Edit for typo.

Edited by Poor Old Bruce

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I've 4 jubilees to go with the 5 rebuilt scots/pats so there prity well cared for. I like the blue pullman but it's likely to be near £400 by the time it's back out again. However you never now.

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Can a Bachmann BCK be turned into a BTK or is there a external differences and has Bachmann ever done a MK1 TK? Looking on the net all I find are BSK or SK FK but no TK. Or can I just renumber a Sk or FK to make one

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From 1956 Third Class was reclassified Second Class. Therefore a Mk1 TK is the same as a Bachmann Mk1 SK.

 

The same with a Mk1 BTK or Mk1 BSK, they are the same thing.

 

So with both types there is no renumbering necessary.

Edited by Flood

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Fantastic thank you. I bet you can't tell I am in the need for some more books.

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BR did not reintroduce the title until the winter 1957-8 timetable.

 

In summer 1958, the formation as listed in the marshalling book was BSK, FK, CK, RCaf, SO, SK, SK, BSK, SK.  All BR Standard (Mark I) stock except the RCaf, which was a restaurant/cafeteria car rebuilt from pre-nationalisation stock in the mid-1950s. They were a sort of self-service catering car but did not last long. By September 1959, the Monday to Friday formation had become BSK, SK, SK, SK, RC, FO, FK, BCK. All Mark I except the Restaurant Composite, which would have been an ex-LMS 12-wheeler, possibly of the type available RTR from Hornby.  On Saturdays, the restaurant and open first were omitted and replaced by an SK, with another SK attached behind the BCK.

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Sorry for taking my time in getting back to you all thanks for all your help so just to recap partly for my self. I can have the train has follows

Mk1's BTK 1K CK TK exLMS TK BTK TK CK RBC OT.

Or 1959

BCK FK FO RC12 WHEELER SK SK SK BSK.

 

OR 1958 all mk1's

BSK FK CK RCaF SO SK SK BSK SK

 

 

BSK SK SK SK RC 12 wheelet FO FK BCK ALL MK1's

 

 

I've since bought the triang pullman work needed on it but I have one!

 

Has for the coaches I've already got mk1's BSK FK CK SK Hornby 12wheeler. Also owned Bachmann Mk1 restaurant.

 

So I think I'll go with one of your suggestions and ignore the ex LMS

Edited by farren

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When did 'The Palatine' train stop running? Cheers, Jim

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My first view of The Palatine was in late December 1958 at Derby, it was taking my great aunt Mary back to London, her parting gift was half a Crown which I spent on m first ABC. City of London in glorious BR maroon was on the front cover. Brit 70004, William Shakespeare was the train engine which I shamefully stood by, admiring her, rather than saying a proper goodbye to my aunt!!. Incidentally 45694 Bellerophon was on the down Devonian that evening, they passed, almost at the same time..........my first two cops!! Although I had seen 70000 and 70009 at Liverpool Street the previous Summer when visiting said aunt at Thundersley, Essex. I eventually went on to cop all of GER Brits except 70010 over the next couple of years. The sight and sound of them on Brentford bank was unforgettable.

 

Mike

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