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4mm scale Welsh wagon transfers


Poggy1165
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Nicely creative! I do a body for the 15T Coal Wagon on Shapeways in 3mm scale, though it's expensive. https://www.shapeways.com/product/LG9YGTF8F/cambrian-railways-loco-coal-15t-3mm-scale

 

I haven't bit the bullet and ordered a 4mm one yet. It's painstakingly drawn from the rather knackered Pickering G.A. Drawing, which took some doing! 

Alan

 

Like it. Have ordered one. I've a copy of a Cambrian General Arrangement drawing for a 15 ton 8 plank coal wagon, not dated but has drawing no 900 on it and signed off by Herbert Jones. As far as I can tell this looks to be identical. This is drawing 9002 on the BR/OPC lists obtainable from the NRM. Originally I thought it had an all wood solebar, but looking at the drawing it seems to have a steel soleplate on the outside of a wooden solebar.

 

Cheers

Nigel

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Let me know how you get on, I f you like I can resize my Cambrian W Irons etch and some suitable 3D printed axleboxes, you'd need to give me details of axles and bearings in 3mm scale though. I was briefly a member of the 3mm society, but decided that it was far easier to get hold of components to build stuff in 4mm and so never got beyond drawing up a track plan in templot. 

 

Steel facings on the solebars would be highly unusual, there's no evidence of it on any built wagon I've seen and definitely not on the Pickering Drawing. Not unprecedented though - the Boiler truck has wooden solebars faced with steel angle, but the drawing does explicitly state this and makes it very clear. (I do have that one!)

I should have got the Oswestry drawing as the thumbnail on the NRM website shows it's a lot clearer than HMRS's Pickering drawing: 

 

http://www.hmrs.org.uk/drawings/images/1200px/0050.gif

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I wondered about the solebar because I half expected to see those semi-circular things on the solebar above the wheels, as the solebar on my RCH wagon has, but couldn't see it on yours. Sure enough the drawing shows just bolts on the outside of the solebar, apart from the outer V hanger. The side view has the legend -STEEL SOLE PLATE- on the solebar, and the end view appears to show 5" x 12" solebar (presumably wood) faced with a 5/16" steel sole plate.

 

Didn't realise that the NRM shows thumbnails; looks like being useful, where they exist. That's the drawing I have.

 

I'll bear in mind the W irons and axle boxes. I'll wait until I have the print and then see what I need.

 

Re the transfers, is it a question of filling up a sheet of a particular size, or is it more flexible than that? Other thing, I've yet to find a good source of information about particular Cambrian wagon brandings; I wondered if you knew of one, or is it a question of scrapping around to see what one can find?

 

Cheers

Nigel

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Re the transfers, is it a question of filling up a sheet of a particular size, or is it more flexible than that? Other thing, I've yet to find a good source of information about particular Cambrian wagon brandings; I wondered if you knew of one, or is it a question of scrapping around to see what one can find?

 

Cheers

Nigel

 

Rather than have a sheet full of 2 planks, a sheet full of 4 planks etc requiring full artwork for each transfer in 4mm a full sheet will consist of one of everything. It means there will likely be surplus stock of less popular transfers but that doesn't really bother me in 4mm because I can absorb any excess into my own modelling. Obviously with the other scales I can't do that so I propose to put a sheet together with what I'm asked for, 1 artwork, 1 sheet and costs divided between the interested parties with no overstock. 

 

As for brandings, it's just a case of studying photos. Published sources are somewhat useless! I have a large spreadsheet compiled by Richard Evans of Cam Kits from information he has received from other researchers over the years which I'm adding to where I can. There is masses of data missing - No 3 planks are listed for example yet we know they exist as there are photos, of at least two different designs. 

 

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As for brandings, it's just a case of studying photos. Published sources are somewhat useless! I have a large spreadsheet compiled by Richard Evans of Cam Kits from information he has received from other researchers over the years which I'm adding to where I can. There is masses of data missing - No 3 planks are listed for example yet we know they exist as there are photos, of at least two different designs. 

 

The Barrowmore group's Johnstown Road layout has a Cambrian 3-plank wagon running on it; see:

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/jr_Harrogate.html

Might be worth checking to see if they have a source of data.

 

I like their idea of invisible green, almost black but with just a green hint to it.

 

Nigel

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The Barrowmore group's Johnstown Road layout has a Cambrian 3-plank wagon running on it; see:

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/jr_Harrogate.html

Might be worth checking to see if they have a source of data.

 

I like their idea of invisible green, almost black but with just a green hint to it.

 

Nigel

 

Just seen the pictures - they used Powsides transfers for a 2 plank on it (Pickering 1901). The 3 plank dropside should be a little taller than the 2 plank, but the fixed side one is identical in size to the  2 plank, with the wooden brake gear and Y shaped brake hanger of the early 7 ton 2 planks. I think they've just used a 2 plank kit and re scribed the sides - something I was thinking of doing too, but making a fixed end one so it was accurate. If you have Cambrian Album vol 1, there's a good pic in there of a fixed end one, and dropsides feature in the background of many of the official photos taken at Oswestry in 1903, all branded Ballast. At least one has only a single brake shoe. I often wonder if these were ex Mid Wales, or else just very old. 

 

I counted once how many different variations of wagon you could make using the Cambrian C100 dropside kit as the basis - it was more than I have fingers! 

 

The Cambrian is a really frustrating railway to model, but quite fascinating to research! 

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Let me know how you get on, I f you like I can resize my Cambrian W Irons etch and some suitable 3D printed axleboxes, you'd need to give me details of axles and bearings in 3mm scale though.

 

Alan

 

Received the Cambrian 15T coal wagon; looks fine. I should be OK for W irons; I'm working on a couple of etches at the moment, one of them including wagon chasses, and can add the coal wagon to that. However, the 3D printed axle boxes would be very useful. Also, if you're going to bring back your Cambrian buffers at some point, 3mm versions of those would also be useful; the 3mm Society does some nice steel buffer heads with a 0.7mm shank.

 

Cheers

Nigel

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Alan

 

Received the Cambrian 15T coal wagon; looks fine. I should be OK for W irons; I'm working on a couple of etches at the moment, one of them including wagon chasses, and can add the coal wagon to that. However, the 3D printed axle boxes would be very useful. Also, if you're going to bring back your Cambrian buffers at some point, 3mm versions of those would also be useful; the 3mm Society does some nice steel buffer heads with a 0.7mm shank.

 

Cheers

Nigel

 

Good good, I'm just putting together a bulk order including a 4mm one too. Once I've finished that I'll create a little batch of 3mm bits and pieces and send you the link. I think I did someone some 3mm bits already, I'll have to check. 

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1.5mm pin-point bearings for wagons. There is a thin flange about 0.25mm thick, then the main body of the bearing which is about 1.6mm thick and 1.4mm deep. Allowing say 0.3mm for nickel silver etched W irons, then the body projects about 1.1mm, or a tad more, beyond the W irons. These are 3mm Society products. There are also heftier Kean Maygib 1.5mm bearings but I don't use them for wagons (but they're useful with MJT coach bogies).

 

Cheers

Nigel

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That's fine. The "0.7mm" for the buffers is actually a fraction less, so may not even need the drill. I've ordered 4 lots; the postage works out less painfull that way!

 

Thanks a lot. Nigel

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Marc

 

Would definitely be interested in some Welsh wagon kits in 3mm. My main interest is 1930s GWR but I'm now also working on a long-held interest in the Cambrian, and in addition some Welsh wagons in general. I've recently completed a couple of Rhymney wagons, easy adaptions from existing kits:

 

post-26119-0-83745500-1458923316.jpg

 

Nigel

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There is a rumour that the Welsh Railways Research Circle is contemplating producing some Welsh transfers. However, the rumour also is that they move at the sort of pace that a tortoise would find frustratingly slow. For those who are interested, I suggest you get in touch with the WRRC and put some pressure on them.

On behalf of the tortoise, I am very pleased to be able to tell you that the Welsh Railways Research Circle and Richard Evans of Camkits have produced a comprehensive range of Cambrian Railways transfers in 4mm and 7mm scales.  Manufactured by Fox Transfers and available as bespoke livery sets, the WRRC-CamKits range will cover the entirety of the Cambrian locomotive, coach and wagon rolling stock registers.

 
Available now by mail order, further details can be found on the WRRC website http://www.wrrc.org.uk/index.php / or by e-mail from transfer_sales@wrrc.org.uk 
 
An online shop will be available soon.    
 
Details of Richard's etched Cambrian Railway coach kits can be had by e-mailing  Richard on camkits4u@gmail.com 
 
If you're heading for this weekend's Cardiff Model Railway Exhibition then they will be on sale there.
 
And just for the sake of clarity, if you're wondering how I know, I'll be the bloke on the other end of transfer_sales@wrrc.org.uk !!
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On behalf of the tortoise, I am very pleased to be able to tell you that the Welsh Railways Research Circle and Richard Evans of Camkits have produced a comprehensive range of Cambrian Railways transfers in 4mm and 7mm scales.  Manufactured by Fox Transfers and available as bespoke livery sets, the WRRC-CamKits range will cover the entirety of the Cambrian locomotive, coach and wagon rolling stock registers.

 
Available now by mail order, further details can be found on the WRRC website http://www.wrrc.org.uk/index.php / or by e-mail from transfer_sales@wrrc.org.uk 
 
An online shop will be available soon.    
 
Details of Richard's etched Cambrian Railway coach kits can be had by e-mailing  Richard on camkits4u@gmail.com 
 
If you're heading for this weekend's Cardiff Model Railway Exhibition then they will be on sale there.
 
And just for the sake of clarity, if you're wondering how I know, I'll be the bloke on the other end of transfer_sales@wrrc.org.uk !!

 

 

Do we need to be WRRC members to buy? I'd be interested in stocking them in my online shop. 

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The WRRC Cambrian transfers are now available and will be on sale at this weekend's Cardiff Show. In answer to the question above, I think they would be happy for anybody to sell them. The initial cost of getting the artwork done etc means they have spent a substantial sum of money which they will be keen to recoup. The quality, by the way, is fantastic.

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Quarryscapes, they are on general sale, you don't need to be a WRRC Member to buy them though if you are at all interested in the railways of Wales which I can see you are, I recommend it. If you want to contact me via transfer_sales@wrrc.org, we can start a conversation.

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As the topic title seems to embrace Welsh companies in general.......

I'm wondering where the 'R & S B Rly' transfers are, though I only have one van to letter,

... and that's an old 4mm scale Ian Kirk (GWR) plastic body I've just found in my 'to-do drawer'..

It must be at least 30 years old already, so I may have to wait awhile longer.

- I've looked at all my varied transfers in stock, but can't see something suitable,

.... and my eyesight has gone to far to contemplate hand lettering.

 

PS - John Miles, just getting a few things together ready for Cardiff Show in October:sungum: 

Edited by Penlan
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I wish to replace some poor hand lettering from 30+ years ago on the body,

.... it must have been after a party  :no:

I've just started to add the running gear, some people have had half dozen layouts in that time.

 

.... and if somebody want's to tell me there's not much call for 'R & S B Rly' transfers,

I think they may have a larger sale base than say the Llanelli & Mynydd Mawr Railway....

 

post-6979-0-66153800-1484590893_thumb.jpg

 

... and yes, the L&MM brake lever looks suspiciously like a LNWR one, from the spares box.

The far buffer could do with some attention too - Oh, digital photography has a lot to answer for.

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Unfortunately Dragon Models never did either of those companies. Only the big ones - TVR, BR, RR, B&M and Cambrian. I was surprised to find that all the wagons transfers seem still to be available in 4 mm - and that the business will shortly be changing hands.

On another thread, one of our esteemed RMWebbers is about to offer a tutorial on transfer making, someone in the Pre-grouping section. I'll add the link when I find it.

Jonathan

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Sandy

 

Good to hear you are getting ready for Cardiff and R&SB and L&MM are a good additions. Sadly neglected railways so far as modellers are concerned but then sadly there are quite a few other South Wales independents that don't get the attention they deserve - The Barry for instance, there are very few Rhymney models, very little B&M and if it wasn't for Tudor no N&B.

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