BWsTrains Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) I thought that the first batch of Oxford Deans were the problem and that they had now improved things at the factory. Is this conclusion correct or are there still some issues ? other way around. The first issue 2309 had a larger motor and twin flywheels, ran very smoothly. Then Oxford stole defeat from the jaws of victory by dumbing down the motor power and removing 1 flywheel (all well documented here by others reports that I'm just echoing). I think it was Mikkel who posted photos of both with bodywork removed Those of us who wanted a working 2475 have gone thru the Labours of Hercules either thru repeated returns or as Melmerby has skillfully shown, some nifty "heart" surgery. You might be mixing up the running issues with some cosmetic issues regarding Cab design etc. in batch 1 that I believe were subsequently revised. Edited October 7, 2018 by BWsTrains 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2018 So does did mine. (It is still slightly jerky at very low speeds, about a scale 5mph). I noticed that when it stopped it was not drawing any current but after another tweak of the contact wipers I have managed to get it to keep moving. As the jerk happens at exactly the same spot on the wheel rotation it must be something to do with the gear on the driven axle. It cannot be elsewhere as the other gears are rotating at a higher speed. I wonder whether the gear is slightly eccentric? Due to the close meshing of the gears there is little room for error. Keith This could well be a gear train issue as you say, Kieth, but binding/jamming of motion/wheels or fouling of some sort is also indicated by a stop or hesitation at the same point on the driving wheels' rotation. If you can remove the motor on this model, and I'm not sure you can, do so and push the rolling chassis gently along with your finger. You will be able to identify any tight spots by 'feel'; the job then is to isolate it/them, almost certainly 'it'. Given your current collection anomaly at the same spot, which you cured by tweaking a pickup, it might be worth looking for any irregularity on the rear face of that wheel as your first port of call. I'd be very surprised if the gear is eccentric; if it's plastic it's more likely split! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted October 7, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2018 I thought that the first batch of Oxford Deans were the problem and that they had now improved things at the factory. Is this conclusion correct or are there still some issues ? My understanding is that Oxford have been trying to address the visual deficiencies of the model, but also decided to cut costs by de-spec'ing the mechanism and making the bit that was generally very well received worse. So one step forward, two steps back is my impression. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWsTrains Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) My understanding is that Oxford have been trying to address the visual deficiencies of the model, but also decided to cut costs by de-spec'ing the mechanism and making the bit that was generally very well received worse. So one step forward, two steps back is my impression. Only Two?. After a year that can only be called my "annus horribilis" with returns I've lost count of, I'm totally fed up with manufacturers that release RTR models where the first R appears to have been forgotten. Remember that the 2nd "R" it stands for "RUN". Think the Oxford Dean, Hornby 48xx, and DJM 14xx, maybe others too, all plagued with multiple reports of 1st R failures. Guys, we want our models to run, out of the box, not have to return them multiple times to get one that might just keep on working OK, if we're lucky. IMO customers have suffered on the altar of expediency, where it's easier to tolerate managing returns than actually get the product right first time. I, for one, am voting with my feet and withdrawing my custom from offending manufacturers. Colin Edited October 7, 2018 by BWsTrains 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 7, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2018 If you can remove the motor on this model, and I'm not sure you can, do so and push the rolling chassis gently along with your finger. You will be able to identify any tight spots by 'feel'; the job then is to isolate it/them, almost certainly 'it'. As I posted earlier, it is easy to remove the worm as it is held down by a plastic clip and connects to the motor through a UJ Once removed the chassis is free with no obvious binding. There is however very little play in the gears so tightness e.g. to much pressure on the pinion by the worm could be transmitted through the gear chain and if the driven gear is slightly eccentric might, just might be causing the problem. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2018 As I posted earlier, it is easy to remove the worm as it is held down by a plastic clip and connects to the motor through a UJ Once removed the chassis is free with no obvious binding. There is however very little play in the gears so tightness e.g. to much pressure on the pinion by the worm could be transmitted through the gear chain and if the driven gear is slightly eccentric might, just might be causing the problem. Keith Looks like gears in that case, Kieth. I can't really comment about play, except to say it's a balancing act between enough play to allow free running and too much side slop which will cause all sorts of problems. You should be able to see if the cog is eccentric as it will appear to 'wobble' slightly on the axle as it runs; comedy bicycles exploit the effect. Obviously if it is not running true to the centre and square to the axle it is likely to be the root of your problem. It could also be just a tight spot where not enough play has been allowed. I am assuming that it is the final drive cog that we are talking about here, as you referred to a tight spot apparent at a specific point in the driving wheel revolution, which is what led me down that apparently dead end path of looking for it in the motion. My only suggestion, beyond returning it and perhaps getting a worse runner, is to dismantle the drive train completely and reassemble it, down to component parts. On reassembly, you can check the clearances, replace the cog if it's eccentric, clean and lube everything properly, and ease the clearances if necessary. This will allow you to inspect the interface between the axles and the bearings as well. If is still runs stiff, you are in a cleft stick because you have invalidated the warranty with the strip down. Or just hope if goes away with running in, and do the strip down when the warranty expires and you've less to lose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndg910 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 In one of my super detailing moments I wondered if the Dean Goods snow plough is sold separately. I don’t want to have one attached to a loco and the Oxford DG seems an unfortunate foray into the world of detail Rtr modelling but maybe left by the buffer stop at the back of the shed (suitably weathered) for when it is needed it might be a useful addition. Does anyone know the part number and I will blag(acquire) one from Oxford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2018 In one of my super detailing moments I wondered if the Dean Goods snow plough is sold separately. I don’t want to have one attached to a loco and the Oxford DG seems an unfortunate foray into the world of detail Rtr modelling but maybe left by the buffer stop at the back of the shed (suitably weathered) for when it is needed it might be a useful addition. Does anyone know the part number and I will blag(acquire) one from Oxford. It's a fairly basic item. Couldn't you make something suitable from plastic card? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndg910 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 It's a fairly basic item. Couldn't you make something suitable from plastic card? Keith You are quite right. I can but dims are a slight issue but not insurmountable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted October 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2018 There's a drawing in one of the 2 volumes of the Great Western Railway Locomotives books by Jim Russell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 A look at some of the latest models and prototypes from Oxford Rail, filmed on their Trade Stand at the Swansea Model Railway Exhibition 2018. Models featured, included the all new Class N7 0-6-2T Tanks, impressive 'Gladiator' Railgun, ROD Khaki 'Dean Goods' and Stobart Rail BR Mk3 Coach. Hope it's of interest! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Cjh-FezCY 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2018 For reasons lost in the mists of time, we get in the post the Museum Selection catalogue - always good for a laugh at overpriced tat. I was rather amused to find in the Advent 2018 edition, item 21635 "Diecast Locomotive Model" -"a highly detailed working model..." - none other than the Oxford Dean Goods in plain Great Western green - for - wait for it - £160. (The BR black version is also in their online catalogue.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted November 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2018 For reasons lost in the mists of time, we get in the post the Museum Selection catalogue - always good for a laugh at overpriced tat. I was rather amused to find in the Advent 2018 edition, item 21635 "Diecast Locomotive Model" -"a highly detailed working model..." - none other than the Oxford Dean Goods in plain Great Western green - for - wait for it - £160. (The BR black version is also in their online catalogue.) You could have probably bought a real one for not much more than that in the late 40s or early 50s, when scrap prices were depressed by war surplus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWsTrains Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 (edited) For reasons lost in the mists of time, we get in the post the Museum Selection catalogue - always good for a laugh at overpriced tat. I was rather amused to find in the Advent 2018 edition, item 21635 "Diecast Locomotive Model" -"a highly detailed working model..." - none other than the Oxford Dean Goods in plain Great Western green - for - wait for it - £160. (The BR black version is also in their online catalogue.) The mass produced plastic bodied RTR sells for around GBP 90-100 so I don't find it hard to believe this price for what must be a limited run in Die Cast Metal. Somewhere else in a debate about poor running locos someone came up with "info" that a lot of RTR models are just put in display cases. If folks will pay 100 quid to do just that (and then admire) why not 60 quid more for a presumably less mass produced finish and with "rarity" value to boot. Shades of WC Fields about this whole issue of what folks will spend their hard-earned on. Clearly Oxford think they know! Colin Edit: PS, I wonder if they run as badly as the average "RTR" of this model? Edited November 11, 2018 by BWsTrains Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I see that Rails of Sheffield is having a flash sale of the Dean Goods with snow plough for £79·50. Today only and while stocks last. I wonder why they didn’t call it a clearance sale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2018 The mass produced plastic bodied RTR sells for around GBP 90-100 so I don't find it hard to believe this price for what must be a limited run in Die Cast Metal. Somewhere else in a debate about poor running locos someone came up with "info" that a lot of RTR models are just put in display cases. If folks will pay 100 quid to do just that (and then admire) why not 60 quid more for a presumably less mass produced finish and with "rarity" value to boot. Shades of WC Fields about this whole issue of what folks will spend their hard-earned on. Clearly Oxford think they know! Colin Edit: PS, I wonder if they run as badly as the average "RTR" of this model? The items in the Museum Selection catalogue are the standard Oxford models in plain GW green and early BR black - the only difference between these and what you buy elsewhere is the price. I think die-cast is simply a bit of mis-description in ignorance on Museum Selection's part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 For today only (12/11/18) but £79.50 at Rails https://railsofsheffield.com/?utm_source=Mailing+List&utm_campaign=b53df0349a-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_05_09_COPY_09&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_74d01bc2ed-b53df0349a-5314513 I think we are talking toys not model trains. Reminds me of 'Dinky toys' when I was in short pants. Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
44558 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Well this a new problem I found. The chassis warping on one side. Anyone else had this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Mazac rot perhaps? When I hear a new noise on my MGB, my friendly mechanic usually says - it will develop! So - wait and see. Cheers Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) My advice about mazak rot is not to have it, which doesn't help much, but rather than wait and see, I would be inclined to return it for at least a diagnosis and possible replacement. It'll only get worse over time. I have been very lucky with mazak, never having had a problem touch wood! Edited December 4, 2018 by The Johnster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Mazac rot perhaps? When I hear a new noise on my MGB, my friendly mechanic usually says - it will develop! So - wait and see. Cheers Ray Is there Mazak in the tender chassis? Keith EDIT Just checked my two, looks like Mazak (or an as unknown hard, heavy plastic ) Edited December 4, 2018 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWsTrains Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Is there Mazak in the tender chassis? Keith EDIT Just checked my two, looks like Mazak (or an as unknown hard, heavy plastic ) On the Youchoos site in their Install Guides (and here AFAIR) he shows a cut made on the tender chassis to remove internal screw bosses (required for the OR sound installation) so he could fit the larger speaker and it's clearly metallic, shiny. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star-rider Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Sorry if I have missed it (long thread) but has anyone any experiences to share on the sound fitted version? I am particularly interested in what adjustments have been made to CVs for best running. Due to less than positive reviews I hung back from purchasing but in the end picked one up in Hatton’s sale. It was truly awful; it would sit on the track hissing away happily until I tried to introduce it to the concept of forward motion. There would be fractional movement (millimetres) and then it would stall and the sound would die as if the power had been turned off. A slight nudge would get the sound active again, but as soon as throttle was applied there was the same jerk and shut down. I persevered for a couple of days but eventually gave up and returned it to the supplier stating that I would be happy for a replacement on the condition that they would test it before despatch. Hatton’s return service was great, I got a prepaid return label e-mailed to me and the replacement loco was with me within a week of me sending the original back. I have to say I am not convinced the replacement was tested though; the packaging looked a little too pristine and the performance of the new model was only slightly better than the last. At least when I can get this one moving (same start-up problems) it will circuit my layout at moderate to fast speeds – the original never made it round at all without constant poking. I’m not sure what the delay in forward movement is all about when applying throttle unless it is something to do with sound realism? As I say, if anyone has tweaked the CVs to get better starting and slow running I’d be delighted to hear of it. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWsTrains Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Sorry if I have missed it (long thread) but has anyone any experiences to share on the sound fitted version? I am particularly interested in what adjustments have been made to CVs for best running. Due to less than positive reviews I hung back from purchasing but in the end picked one up in Hatton’s sale. It was truly awful; it would sit on the track hissing away happily until I tried to introduce it to the concept of forward motion. There would be fractional movement (millimetres) and then it would stall and the sound would die as if the power had been turned off. A slight nudge would get the sound active again, but as soon as throttle was applied there was the same jerk and shut down. I persevered for a couple of days but eventually gave up and returned it to the supplier stating that I would be happy for a replacement on the condition that they would test it before despatch. Hatton’s return service was great, I got a prepaid return label e-mailed to me and the replacement loco was with me within a week of me sending the original back. I have to say I am not convinced the replacement was tested though; the packaging looked a little too pristine and the performance of the new model was only slightly better than the last. At least when I can get this one moving (same start-up problems) it will circuit my layout at moderate to fast speeds – the original never made it round at all without constant poking. I’m not sure what the delay in forward movement is all about when applying throttle unless it is something to do with sound realism? As I say, if anyone has tweaked the CVs to get better starting and slow running I’d be delighted to hear of it. Pete. Pete, I've posted extensively in this topic as have others, all of whom have suffered the "poor running" with this loco. Your time reading these posts first will be rewarded. It's not about CVs, running issues are all about the loco as sold and my own experience with Hatton's mirrors your 2nd try. I asked for testing and it still ran like a dog. More, jumped like a kangaroo! I now have an excellent running model and not a single tweak of CVs was required, not even chuff rates! What you do need to know is that with sound "ON" the loco goes thru several seconds of non-moving sound routines before slowly chuffing away smoothly. As I'm away I'll post further help once I get back to my home PC Regards, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWsTrains Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) Pete, Regarding Dean Goods operation, the main issues for me have been slow running and coming to a halt. Normal speed running has generally been fine. The first video shows a very slow start after the delay, just getting up to shunting speed of 2-3mph, https://1drv.ms/v/s!Au252AreD6BYlHgNIOweMb0y3uvK and then normal running for reference: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Au252AreD6BYlHnrnqImKJ8UXvOp This replacement model in these videos comes to a perfectly smooth stop. Colin Edited December 14, 2018 by BWsTrains 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now