Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge 6-plank wagons

[57xx]

10' fitted variant.                                                           bog standard                                                Cheshire Lines livery

 

Thank for the inspiration! See here!

[Sasquatch]

Hattons are showing these as in stock this morning. The BR version looks tempting.

[Garethp8873]

My supplier, AGR Model Railway Store in Leighton Buzzard are now in stock of the LNER and BR examples for £10.74 each Looking forward to getting mine now along with the LNER Cattle wagons

[checkrail]

Just got mine, and cattle wagon, yesterday from Walton's Models. I particularly like the representation of unpainted wood on the inside of the open wagon.  Here they are on Stoke Courtenay

 

 

 

I've put another pic and a note on the cattle wagon thread.

 

John C.

 

​ ​(My layout: STOKE COURTENAY, 1930s GWR junction station.  See layout topic.)

 

 

[micklner]

LNER wagons are normally a much darker Grey.  Why do they portray unpainted wood in a Orange colour ? Pine is a very pale Yellow colour when newly cut and fades to Grey shades when weathered.

[gwrrob]

Blimey that's a bit orangey,I wonder if Dale Winton knows they've modelled his colour !

[Nile]

The grey does look a bit light. In this photo it is in the middle, Bachmann left and right a kit with phoenix paint.

[Andy W]

In the Oxford LNER Cattle Wagon thread helpful posters have told us that since the model is of a 9ft wheelbase vehicle, a BR-liveried version is most unlikely to have ever existed in the real world because few to none made it to 1948. That's apart from the errors in the bodywork and brake gear.

 

How accurate is the 6 plank wagon, both in terms of general fidelity to the prototype and the way the BR livery has been applied? I know that LNER 6-plank opens reached BR service in some numbers, but how about the diagram apparently being modelled?

[31A]

In the Oxford LNER Cattle Wagon thread helpful posters have told us that since the model is of a 9ft wheelbase vehicle, a BR-liveried version is most unlikely to have ever existed in the real world because few to none made it to 1948. That's apart from the errors in the bodywork and brake gear.

 

How accurate is the 6 plank wagon, both in terms of general fidelity to the prototype and the way the BR livery has been applied? I know that LNER 6-plank opens reached BR service in some numbers, but how about the diagram apparently being modelled?

 

 

In terms of accuracy, the body looks pretty good to me (apart from lack of interior detail, but that applies to most RTR open wagons), but unfortunately they have modelled the underframe as if the wagon has 'independent' brakes on each side, whereas the real wagons had Morton brakes, with two brake shoes on one side of the wagon only, the levers connected by a cross shaft and the lever on one side ending in a reversing clutch.

 

A pity in some ways they didn't choose the equivalent LMS design which had the brake arrangement as modelled; however the LMS design had numerous bodywork differences, most obviously only 5 planks!

 

Due to the design of the model, it is easy to take out the brake shoe / push rod mouldings and replace one of them the opposite way round which at least puts the push rods in the correct orientation.  However you then need to provide your own V hangers, which is also not difficult.

 

As regards their use by BR, I think it's true to say they lasted much longer in traffic than the cattle wagons, and I have seen pictures of similar wagons in use in the late '50s / early '60s; however from pictures it isn't always easy to tell whether the wagons are the 9' wheelbase version as modelled, or the later 10' version.

[Dunsignalling]

From photographs, it appears that these wagons were quite often used for disposal of loco ash on the Southern and Western regions (including the S&D Joint line) towards the end of their existence. At the time, there would have been no shortage of redundant 9' wb opens to choose from for this work and these were relatively youthful compared to many other types.

 

John

Edited July 24, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Garethp8873]

Thanks for the information on the LNER Open 31A. I'll now be sending the LNER Opens along with the Cattle wagons to a friend of mine for refurbishment work to rectify their minor problems.

 

Looking on Wizard Models website, would I need to order the 51L [bLGVB] "Brake levers, lever guides and vees, for 8-10ft wb, standard shaped V with/without Morton cam" for the LNER Opens? Rather double check before I start spending the dosh...

Edited July 24, 2016 by Garethp8873

[31A]

Yes.  Those brake levers look as though they would be suitable.  The Vs go behind the solebar, so you'd need to carve away part of the 'inner floor' moulding to give clearance, however not very much as the brass Vs will be quite thin.

 

I found some brass Vs in my scrap box (no idea who made them!) and managed to retain the original brake levers and lever guards - they're quite fine mouldings.  I added a 'tumbler' between the brake push rods, and made some of the detail on what had been the inside of the brake shoe moulding, which would now become the outside.

 

I also changed the buffers, although not strictly necessary - I thought the originals were a bit 'skinny' to be honest.  The metal buffer heads will come in handy for upgrading a plastic wagon kit some time!

 

This picture shows the inner floor modified to accept the new Vs and the original and modified brake shoe mouldings, also the 'plain' brake lever modified with a hole through the end to accept the cross shaft, which I made from a piece of paper clip wire.

 

 

The picture below shows the finished side with brake shoes, and the way I modified the original brake lever to represent the Morton clutch arrangement.  Wagon standing next to one I made earlier from a Cambrian kit.

 

[Wickham Green]

In the Oxford LNER Cattle Wagon thread helpful posters have told us that since the model is of a 9ft wheelbase vehicle, a BR-liveried version is most unlikely to have ever existed in the real world because few to none made it to 1948. That's apart from the errors in the bodywork and brake gear.

 

How accurate is the 6 plank wagon, both in terms of general fidelity to the prototype and the way the BR livery has been applied? I know that LNER 6-plank opens reached BR service in some numbers, but how about the diagram apparently being modelled?

Checking on the cattle wagons yesterday - yes, I know it's the wrong thread - Peter Tatlow advises that something over 1,700 'standard' L.N.E.R. wagons survived in 1947 and the majority would have made it to Nationalisation ........ clearly his source data is more than a little ambiguous but, while that number SEEMS to include 700 BUILT with 10' wheelbase, a significant number of 9' cattle wagons WERE still extant into B.R. days - and some for a good while longer : including at least one early vehicle with G.N.R. style doors !

[Dunsignalling]

Checking on the cattle wagons yesterday - yes, I know it's the wrong thread - Peter Tatlow advises that something over 1,700 'standard' L.N.E.R. wagons survived in 1947 and the majority would have made it to Nationalisation ........ clearly his source data is more than a little ambiguous but, while that number SEEMS to include 700 BUILT with 10' wheelbase, a significant number of 9' cattle wagons WERE still extant into B.R. days - and some for a good while longer : including at least one early vehicle with G.N.R. style doors !

 

The GNR design of Cattle wagon continued to be built under the LNER until at least 1924 and might itself have been considered "standard". Many of them outlasted the 1927 'bendy' wagons as did some other pre-group types.  

 

I'd really like to see a photo of a 9' wb Cattle wagon of this design with BR markings or even an E added to the running number, because I've not found one yet.

 

I know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but it seems very unlikely that all photographers after 1947 would only have photographed 10' wb wagons if there were any 9' ones around too. To me, that suggests that any that were still "on the books" (though probably not in use) at nationalization were scrapped pretty rapidly.

 

See Post #38 of the Cattle wagon thread for why I remain convinced of all this. 

 

John

Edited July 25, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Wickham Green]

 

The GNR design of Cattle wagon continued to be built under the LNER until at least 1924 and might itself have been considered "standard". Many of them outlasted the 1927 'bendy' wagons as did some other pre-group types.  

 

I'd really like to see a photo of a 9' wb Cattle wagon of this design with BR markings or even an E added to the running number, because I've not found one yet.

 

I know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but it seems very unlikely that all photographers after 1947 would only have photographed 10' wb wagons if there were any 9' ones around too. To me, that suggests that any that were still "on the books" (though probably not in use) at nationalization were scrapped pretty rapidly.

 

See Post #38 of the Cattle wagon thread for why I remain convinced of all this. 

 

John

Without Peter Tatlow's volume 4b in front of me I can't quote numbers I'm afraid - but the G.N.R. door cattle wagon I mentioned was photographed at Tetbury with an E prefix number. I don't recall whether the photo was dated but I don't think so .......... certainly looked to be still in cattle traffic judging by the 'muck' squeezed through the slats !

[Wickham Green]

 

The GNR design of Cattle wagon continued to be built under the LNER until at least 1924 and might itself have been considered "standard". Many of them outlasted the 1927 'bendy' wagons as did some other pre-group types.  

 

I'd really like to see a photo of a 9' wb Cattle wagon of this design with BR markings or even an E added to the running number, because I've not found one yet.

 

I know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but it seems very unlikely that all photographers after 1947 would only have photographed 10' wb wagons if there were any 9' ones around too. To me, that suggests that any that were still "on the books" (though probably not in use) at nationalization were scrapped pretty rapidly.

 

See Post #38 of the Cattle wagon thread for why I remain convinced of all this. 

 

John

A wee bit of clarification : Tatlow lists 1147 fitted 'standard' cattle wagons at 31/12/47 and this seems to include the survivors of the 'new-build' 10' wheelbase wagons plus 592 unfitted 'standard' cattle wagons in addition to the 10' rebuilds and the G.N.R. style wagons. The latter comprise two types - the 'genuine' G.N.R. Medium size built in L.N.E.R. days and the earliest 19' Large vans with G.N.R. style drop doors. Then there were penny numbers of 10' rebuilds from the various Large variants.

So if 700 or so of the 1147 were 10' wheelbase there must still have been in the region of four hundred and fifty 9' 'standard' L.N.E.R. vac-fit cattle wagons in existence at Nationalisation ( + 592 unfitted ).

What intrigues me is the small numbers of wagons rebuilt to 10' and given new Diagram numbers : the 'standard' 9' vac-fit wagons are understandable and the G.N.R. door equivalent, too .. but the TWO unfitted examples are a bit of a mystery ................ I can only conclude that an edict went out to say that "Henceforth ALL Large cattle wagons that have become too banana shaped will be reconstructed on 10' wheelbase." - but then Hitler intervened, after a few of each had been done, and the wagon works were used for other purposes.

[Nile]

Getting back on topic (6 plank wagons) and I've been at it again. I've a couple of these wagons, as well as weathering I've corrected the brake gear.

I've also made another change to one of them.

[31A]

OK Nile, I can't see what the other change is that you've made to one of them - go on, give us a clue!  

[Garethp8873]

I'm thinking it has to do with the interior of the wagons...

[Nile]

I've increased the wheelbase of the BR one to 10ft, a similar task to the cattle wagon.

[31A]

I've increased the wheelbase of the BR one to 10ft, a similar task to the cattle wagon.

 

 

So you have, sorry didn't spot that!!

[Nile]

Details of what I did to the wagons can now be found here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82968-niles-mostly-freelance-bodging-bench-coach-bodging/page-21&do=findComment&comment=2405860

[ColHut]

Were any of these 6 plank opens repaired or re-fitted with either side brakes? Just wondering really.

 

Regards

[Wickham Green]

Were any of these 6 plank opens repaired or re-fitted with either side brakes? Just wondering really.

 

Regards

Highly unlikely  -  but to paraphrase Rule 1 : There's a prototype for everything ! .......... any such conversion would, though, have needed a second vee hanger outside each solebar to stop things twisting.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Wickham Green

[ColHut]

Ah yes thanks for that, support of some kind is necessary for the short shaft.

 

Regards