Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge 4-plank wagons

[Garethp8873]

These look to have been very robustly built wagons so I'm wondering if some might have ended up in departmental use to extend their careers by a decade or three, possibly into early BR days? 

 

John

 

If it's the SSA diagram 16B, then according to the Census of 31/12/1947 it lists 250 rated as 10T 4 planks

[autocoach]

A quick bit of Googling hasn't come up with anything very useful, and I really would like to know more about these, and similar, wagons, and where they appeared or might have appeared. I won't be able to resist buying one and doing this to it though (although it may be in a more southerly fictitious livery)!

http://www.buckhaven.info/assets/images/ba_1_b.jpg (From http://www.buckhaven.info/html/private_owner_wagons)

I may be creating a fictitious Cornish clay processor to own and utilize a pair of the 4 planks.  

 

Having just stripped and worked an Oxford 7 plank into the rusted decrepitude of a 1947 PO (see the original Oxford Wagons thread) these will be interesting.  The Oxford brake parts are very very robust but small enough. Wish they were sold as a separate item. 

 

Looks like they are continuing the double spooke wheels  (Scottish pronunciation) and a disappointing rather sharp wheel flange. I have replaced them with Gibson 12 mm wheels successfully. 

[BG John]

Looks like they are continuing the double spooke wheels  (Scottish pronunciation) and a disappointing rather sharp wheel flange. I have replaced them with Gibson 12 mm wheels successfully. 

I'll be converting them to EM, so will probably have to change the wheels anyway.

[James Harrison]

Not so far away either from the looks of it.

 

I had an email from Hattons last night advising their delivery between April and June 2016. 

[Sasquatch]

Well done Oxford! Can we have LNER liveries too please.

[Jenny Emily]

Would these be suitable to represent other pre-grouping 4 plankers such as the GNR or GER ones?

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenwood/h1744777E#h238f48da

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenwood/h238F48DA#h32fa1447

Edited January 29, 2016 by Jenny Emily

[Nick Holliday]

Would these be suitable to represent other pre-grouping 4 plankers such as the GNR or GER ones?

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenwood/h1744777E#h238f48da

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenwood/h238F48DA#h32fa1447

Not really. The NB wagon has a very distinctive end door, with its heavy framing, and I don't think anything like that appeared on English lines, although maybe the NE might have copied its neighbour/rival. The brake gear is also very distinctive.

[shunny]

Now we have the wagon it must be time for someone to laser scan Maude at Boness!

[dube]

Excellent more please makes some of the other RTR manufacturers pre grouping wagons look very dated

[Garethp8873]

It's good to see that this wagon has caught the attention of the former Chairman of North British Railway Study Group, Brian Macdonald whose thoughts have been posted in Model Railway Express' - Having your say - Fri 29th January 2016. After reading it, I just hope it gives Oxford the urge to produce more pre-grouping rolling stock.

 

Oxford Rail 4 plank wagon

Just noted details and photo of  the projected four plank wagon from Oxford Rail.

 

I see it is to be released in NB Livery and this caused me to refer to North British Goods wagons by John Hooper Irwell Press 1991.

 

From the detailed model photo this seems to be a highly accurate rendering of the "NB 8 ton mineral  wood framed wagon" with relevant illustrations on page 46 and in related liveries on pages 44 and 45. From detailed study of the pre production model photo this model appears correct in almost every respect except for some solebar detail (probably to be printed on). The especially distinctive end door is well captured.

 

Can I applaud Oxford for producing this model and related private owner vehicles on hire or lease from the NB in their liveries. I for one look forward to these models with great enthusiasm.

 

You will know that there are pleas from Scottish modellers in regard to the need for Scottish locos that appear from time to time. Can I urge all Scottish pre nationalisation (and pre group)  fans to look closely and see if you can find a place for the models and demonstrate that the market exists for the Scottish prototype!

 

I also see that a dean goods is on its way... I wonder if the appearance of an "Oxford Rail" 0-6-0 chassis with 5 foot 2 drivers offers any opportunity to produce other 0-6-0 locos? 5 foot, and 5 foot 2 was a very common wheel size although I don't know what the Deans wheelbase was.

 

Incidentally for those interested in the NB the North British Railway Study Group will have a stand at the major Scottish show at the SECC Glasgow in February. Please do visit us. You will be made welcome. (Model Rail 26th to 28th February.)

 

I also notice Hornby are issuing an NB liveried wagon this year...

 

Brian Macdonald

Former Chairman NBRSG

www.nbrstudygroup.co.uk

Edited January 31, 2016 by Garethp8873

[Garethp8873]

Well done Oxford! Can we have LNER liveries too please.

 

I fully agree!! As soon this model was announced, I was looking in my LNER Wagons Volume 3 to see what LNER liveries I could go with. So far I'm looking at having two done in pre-1936 lettering and post-1936 letterings. At the sametime though, I've a feeling LNER liveries will be looked upon once the initial four models have been released. Either way I will have an ex-North British 4 plank in LNER livery on my layout...!!

 

Now we have the wagon it must be time for someone to laser scan Maude at Boness!

 

The question of Maude being done in OO was actually raised by the LCLT on Facebook last year so you never know. It may even be a good idea to see whether they are still looking at doing Maude in OO now this wagon has been announced.

 

Excellent more please makes some of the other RTR manufacturers pre grouping wagons look very dated

 

The pre-grouping wagon has really been starved of attention for a very long time. While it's been great to see post 1923 wagons appear, it's irritated me that virtually no attention has been paid to pre-1923 wagons. Companies releasing wagons that are based on pre-grouping examples but use currently available models drives me up the wall. I know it does sound petty but it is a pet hate of mine I can't let go of...!!

 

However after having seen the SECR and LBSCR wagons appearing in high positions in last year's RMWeb wishlist along with Oxford Rail's announcement, gives me hope that we're going to start seeing alot more pre-grouping wagons. So far all my pre-grouping wagons are only kit built and all have been purchased off ebay. Several of them weren't cheap either...!! Kudos to Kernow/DJ and Oxford Rail for jumping in the deep end so far...!! I just hope we see the others take notice and jump in as well...!!

 

Garethp8873.

[Adams442T]

Excellent more please makes some of the other RTR manufacturers pre grouping wagons look very dated

 

One of the problems is that (outside of kits) there are very, very few pre-grouping wagons available.  Plenty of 'faux' early PO wagon liveries, and Oxford themselves have been guilty of that, and, as I've said before, it's such a shame they didn't do the 1907 RCH wagons, which would have been wonderful if done to the same standard as the new NB wagon.

[Edwardian]

As photographs often attest, the degree to which any given company's wagons were spread across the national system was impressive.  I would always try to find room for any company's wagons on any pre-grouping (or Grouping) layout.  This is very much not a case of "Scottish layout owners only need apply".  In fact, I should think it far easier to justify another company's wagon on your layout than it is many of the PO wagons (not that there's many for pre-groupers RTR), because the latter are often more likely to have set routes or areas of operation.

 

So, bearing this in mind, in due course I am keen to do right by Oxford and thank them for this release in a profoundly fiscal way.  As someone who knows distressingly little about the NB, however, can anyone tell me (a) the construction dates, and ( b ) put a date on the NB livery shown?

 

To what extent might there be similar wagons, either PO or Company, that might be achieved by modifying the NB model?

 

It would be good to make the maximum use possible of the release and to show the manufacturer what a jolly useful thing it has done, so, in that spirit, I would be most grateful for any answers forum members may be able to provide.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Edwardian

[Garethp8873]

As photographs often attest, the degree to which any given company's wagons were spread across the national system was impressive.  I would always try to find room for any company's wagons on any pre-grouping (or Grouping) layout.  This is very much not a case of "Scottish layout owners only need apply".  In fact, I should think it far easier to justify another company's wagon on your layout than it is many of the PO wagons (not that there's many for pre-groupers RTR), because the latter are often more likely to have set routes or areas of operation.

 

So, bearing this in mind, in due course I am keen to do right by Oxford and thank them for this release in a profoundly fiscal way.  As someone who knows distressingly little about the NB, however, can anyone tell me (a) the construction dates, and ( B) put a date on the NB livery shown?

 

To what extent might there similar wagons, either PO or Company, that might be achieved by modifying the NB model?

 

It would be good to make the maximum use possible of the release and to show the manufacturer what a jolly useful thing it has done, so, in that spirit, I would be most grateful for any answers forum members may be able to provide.

 

So far North British practically represents my Scottish rolling stock. I do have others including a Caledonian Outside Framed Goods Van but don't use them either because of them being whitemetal (because the vast majority of my wagons are plastic build and not as heavy as the whitemetal models) or the wagon needs refurbishment work before being allowed to run on my layout.

 

Like yourself, before I decide on whether I will purchases certain wagons or not I will look in the books and see where these wagons were photographed. At the end of the day I try to remember a wagon would go where it was needed regardless of it's company and livery.

 

My knowledge only stems to what the NB 4 plank did during the NB/LNER era. This wagon in question is a North British 8/10T to SSA diagram 16B. The 16B diagram was built from 1896 onwards and by 1947, 252 10T and 74 8T assigned to Loco Coal duties were still around. Photos show them mainly around Scotland but one is shown going as far as Bromley in London still in North British livery in 1933...!! Liveries include North British and pre/post1936 lettering.

[BG John]

From what I've picked up so far, the private owner wagons seemed to have been leased from the NBR, so presumably would only have been supplied to coal suppliers operating in the NBR area. They may have wandered further afield after grouping, but that suggests pre 1923 they are only suitable for a Scottish layout, unless they visited collieries in England, but presumably only the most northerly ones. And even after grouping only one or two might be appropriate for layouts south of the border.

 

So rather than the usual inaccurate wagons with liveries they would never have carried, often from a date decades before the period of the layouts they run on, will we now be seeing fairly accurate wagons with authentic liveries, but appearing on West Country branch lines, and other places where nothing like them would have ever been seen?

 

Or were they supplied to traders operating in other parts of Britain, or are there similar wagons that were that it can be adapted to? Even if I don't buy any Oxford ones because they prove to be totally out of place on my 1905 Great Western branch line, I have an O gauge Parkside Dundas one I need to find a use for!

[Quarryscapes]

Well how about that, just found photographic proof of my need for one of the NB ones, seen here at Porthmadog:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portmadoc-Railway-Station-Photo-Harlech-Criccieth-Pwllheli-Line-1-/252253161514?hash=item3abb75c82a:g:mqQAAOSwCypWmjMT

[Edwardian]

Brilliant picture.  I had a feeling that we all need to buy that little NB wagon when it arrives! 

[BG John]

Brilliant picture.  I had a feeling that we all need to buy that little NB wagon when it arrives! 

But would it have appeared there before the grouping?

[No Decorum]

Brilliant picture.  I had a feeling that we all need to buy that little NB wagon when it arrives! 

Oh yes but wouldn’t a triple pack with differently numbered wagons be even better?

[Garethp8873]

Well how about that, just found photographic proof of my need for one of the NB ones, seen here at Porthmadog:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portmadoc-Railway-Station-Photo-Harlech-Criccieth-Pwllheli-Line-1-/252253161514?hash=item3abb75c82a:g:mqQAAOSwCypWmjMT

 

Bromley, London and now Porthmadog. Can't say no to getting one or two now...

 

But would it have appeared there before the grouping?

 

Possibly, I've seen a photo of a Caledonian Outside Framed Van in LBSCR territory in the early 1920s.

 

The way I look at it is wagons went wherever they were required. That's my philosophy when it comes to wagons.

 

For example, I've recently picked up some Caledonian Dia.10 Medium Cattle wagons from the Caledonian Railway Association's True Line Models range. Initially I wasn't sure why a Caledonian Cattle wagon would be down in the Midlands area so far away from home. Eventually I thought of the idea that a farmer down South wants to breed Highland Cattle or even the wagon is part of a farm removal train which are good enough reasons. I could even use the Aberdeen Steak excuse but I don't know if that'd work as well...!! At the end of the day, don't let liveries hold you back.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Garethp8873

[Edwardian]

I'm afraid I take the view that the examples I have seen of far flung wagons are merely evidence that there were a lot of other far flung wagons around on all the other days when photographs weren't being taken of goods trains/yards!

 

In other words, unless dedicated to particular traffic/routes, almost any un-photographed wagon is as likely to appear in far away places as one that happened to be captured on glass plate far away from home.

[Garethp8873]

I'm afraid I take the view that the examples I have seen of far flung wagons are merely evidence that there were a lot of other far flung wagons around on all the other days when photographs weren't being taken of goods trains/yards!

 

In other words, unless dedicated to particular traffic/routes, almost any un-photographed wagon is as likely to appear in far away places as one that happened to be captured on glass plate far away from home.

 

Exactly. With reason, I imagine goods yard managers would've used whatever wagons were currently around and capable of doing the job required.

[BG John]

Possibly, I've seen a photo of a Caledonian Outside Framed Van in LBSCR territory in the early 1920s.

 

The way I look at it is wagons went wherever they were required. That's my philosophy when it comes to wagons.

Vans, general merchandise wagons, and special purpose wagons, delivering far from home, but surely not a coal wagon? For some of us, railway history ends long before the pooling of wagons started in WW1! After that, I imagine you can get away with any common user wagon you fancy on your layout, wherever it's based.

 

That's why I'm still trying to find out if any of these wagons actually got into the hands of private owners down south.

[Andy Hayter]

Two things to consider John

 

Not all coal is alike, some has high calorific values and is very pure and this is ideal for steel making (not iron smelting - too good for that).  Others have high "gas" contents and were used for gas production and also for chemicals and produced coke as a by-product (again very pure and good for steel production.  There are lots of other qualities in between, although they are broken down into 6 grades.

 

This is a mineral wagon and not a coal truck.  It could conceivably have carried other minerals than coal, although I accept that coal would be the most likely cargo.

[Garethp8873]

Following on from yesterday, I have to say I'm looking forward to seeing the Lothian Newbattle 4 Plank in Oxford Rail's latest announcements. Now my Harburn Hobbies Newbattle 7 Plank will have a wee lil sister...!!

 

Whilst I know the 4 plank example is correct from I can recall, can anyone tell me if the Lothian Coal Company actually did have any 7 planks at all? Unfortunately I cannot find anything on the Lothian Coal Company in my range of Private Owner Wagon books...