Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge 4-plank wagons

[Bernard Lamb]

 

 

The article also states that in 1904 the GWR used their own 3,000 gal tank wagons to convey the shale oil down from Scotland - In the Glasgow - Edinburgh lowlands region.

 

 

That made me look in the Harry Knox book on the shale oil industry.

A brief look did not find any GWR tanks.

However one photo did show what could happen in the other direction, with wagons shown at Pumpherston including Ebbw Vale, Crump (Forest of Dean), Butterley, Monckton, William Harrison (Cannock), Florence (Stoke on Trent), Haydock, Berry Hill (Stoke on Trent). 

On that example it seems that just about any thing goes.

Bernard

[Penlan]

Re. the colour..

This is taken at Lawley MR Goods Depot here

Seems to be no body paint at all.

 

[billbedford]

If these last two photos were taken post 1916 0r 1917 the wagons would have been common user, and so their presence would not have been related to any particular traffic. Likewise I suspect the unpainted NB was was part of a war time economy measure.

[Penlan]

If these last two photos were taken post 1916 0r 1917 the wagons would have been common user, and so their presence would not have been related to any particular traffic. Likewise I suspect the unpainted NB was was part of a war time economy measure.

Still pre-grouping though...

[asmay2002]

Re. the colour..

 

This is taken at Lawley MR Goods Depot here

Seems to be no body paint at all.

 

NB wagon - No Paint.jpg

 

To me this looks as though all of the top coat has been worn off.  The only places where the grey has survived is where it has been protected by the white lettering which has also gone (hence why the lettering looks dark on an unpainted body).

[Garethp8873]

Nice to see a few more 4 Plank wagons have been annouced today. Was pleased to see a LNER version, but quickly disappointed to see that once again they've not done their research properly when it comes to running numbers... I think I'll just be placing an order on for the new Toads at the moment in time.

[Penlan]

Here is a link to a NB wagon in the SRPS collection.  http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/10038.htm

This wagon has all it's ironwork painted black, the Oxford wagon doesn't.

Yes, I know they are slightly different wagons.

There are a number of references that indicate sometimes they were, and sometimes the ironwork wasn't painted black.

The official NBR and/or NBR groups are not a lot of help for pictures.

In fact looking for pictures of 1:1 scale NBR wagons, there are very, very few on the internet at all.

I don't have the Tatlow books.

I've reached the point in my EM guage version, where I have replaced the 'W' irons and spring/axleboxes, repositioned the fixed end bolsters (apparently they should have a 8mm space between them, or is that the other Diagram?), added crown plates on the solebars, and now I'm ready to touch-up the paintwork etc.,  but the ironwork, Black or body colour?

Edited January 10, 2017 by Penlan

[Penlan]

.... and then I found this here, a yard full of NBR wagons at Kirkliston.  

.... and then another at Crianlarich.  

Why, now I've committed myself in print saying there's hardly any views out there,

am I suddenly swamped in the things?  BUT >>>> The ironworks black ('ish).

 

and further along this photo there's what looks like a NBR Loco Coal Wagon...

Edited January 10, 2017 by Penlan

[billbedford]

  but the ironwork, Black or body colour?

 

 

Body colour. I've just been through 'Wagons of the LNER, North British' and found that all the photos with black ironwork also have white wheel rims, i.e. these wagons have been specially prepared for the photographs.

[Pint of Adnams]

This wagon has all it's ironwork painted black, the Oxford wagon doesn't.

Yes, I know they are slightly different wagons.

There are a number of references that indicate sometimes they were, and sometimes the ironwork wasn't painted black.

The official NBR and/or NBR groups are not a lot of help for pictures.

In fact looking for pictures of 1:1 scale NBR wagons, there are very, very few on the internet at all.

I don't have the Tatlow books.

I've reached the point in my EM guage version, where I have replaced the 'W' irons and spring/axleboxes, repositioned the fixed end bolsters (apparently they should have a 8mm space between them, or is that the other Diagram?), added crown plates on the solebars, and now I'm ready to touch-up the paintwork etc.,  but the ironwork, Black or body colour?

Looking through the photographs in Tatlow volume 3 it seems fairly certain that the ironwork below the solebar/headstocks was painted either:

 

(I) black with the exception of the builder's plate (black/while lettering) and the brake lever guide, where it projected above/in front of the solebar. However, have typed that, there are some photographs that show all of the brake lever guide only painted the same colour as the body;

 

(2) all over body colour!

 

Body colour and part/all underframes were medium grey, lettered in white, for unfitted and reddish-brown, lettered in chrome yellow, for automatic brake fitted. Roofs were painted white that rapidly discoloured. Service vehicles were red oxide and the ends of brake vans and gunpowder vans were vermilion.

 

Hope this helps.

[Penlan]

Thank you for the clarification, grey all over.

 

Perhaps somebody had better get over to Kirkliston pronto and touch up the ironwork. 

[Nick Holliday]

Body colour. I've just been through 'Wagons of the LNER, North British' and found that all the photos with black ironwork also have white wheel rims, i.e. these wagons have been specially prepared for the photographs.

Assuming we are talking about the well illustrated Hooper book, from Irwell Press, rather than Tatlow's, I found that out of 60 photos in NBR grey, roughly a third had the body ironwork picked out in black to some extent, yet I counted over 40 with white wheel tyres. Yes, they were almost all prepared for photography, but I don't see that the black ironwork was part of the process.

Also the range of dates of blackened irons was quite wide, from before the turn of the century up to grouping.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Nick Holliday

[Jenny Emily]

I always thought that white wheel rims were more about making it easier to spot the development of cracks in an age long before ultrasound?

[Penlan]

A view I came across in the 'Lost England, 1870 - 1930' book - £45 or £20 through Amazon.

It's at Forth Banks Goods Station, Pottery Lane, Newcastle, 1893.

The 4 plank, fixed sided wagon - I assume a Dia. 55 -  appears to be devoid of any body colour and 'N B',

I don't know, but if the '92' in the crescent is a paint etc., date, then it's only a year out of the shops.
Even the Van in the background seems to have only been partially repainted.

 

If the 4 leaf foil line is white, then the sides seem to be a lighter grey than white..   

In the shadows at the left hand side is a LNWR Glass wagon to Dia. 39 (16' long),

and because this is some 15 years before 'LNWR' appeared on the sides,

the script is in the centre panel, and reads :

'To Be Returned to St Helens'

       '(For?) GLASS TRAFFIC' 
Note, not 'Empty to St Helens' as in later days.

 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Penlan

[Black Marlin]

Can anyone tell me the interior dimensions of the body, please, so that I know whether a load I already have will fit into one of these?

Many thanks,
Gavin

[The Johnster]

I always thought that white wheel rims were more about making it easier to spot the development of cracks in an age long before ultrasound?

 

I doubt this very much.  I can see your thinking, Jenny, but white rims are to make the wagon, itself an advertising medium for it's owner, look nice in the photo of it's smart newly applied livery.  Some private owners, particularly the smaller ones, coal merchants with only a half dozen 7 plankers in the fleet, maintained their wagons to very high standards of external appearance even if they didn't care much about the running gear, but most wagons were allowed to become filthy in their own time, which was fairly quickly on a steam railway in predominantly industrial environments.

 

The standard modelling cliche of the train of brightly coloured wagons as part of some pre war idealised world when Britannia ruled the waves and everybody knew their place, squire, is based on a myth.  

 

A crack in a tyre would have to have already become disastrously wide before it was visible to the naked eye even if the tyre was painted white anyway, and wheeltapping was the best way to establish the integrity of the tyre; it had the advantage that you didn't need daylight for it as well!  The wagon examiner has to go round the whole length of the train both sides before it is signed off as fit to leave the yard and travel anyway, so tapping takes no extra time and little extra effort.  

[Nile]

Can anyone tell me the interior dimensions of the body, please, so that I know whether a load I already have will fit into one of these?

 

Many thanks,

Gavin

 

57.0 x 27.8 x 13.0 mm

[melmerby]

Has anybody noticed that the axle on the 4 plank end tipper is only 24.5mm long?

 

The other Oxford wagons I have are 26.5mm

 

Keith

[Nile]

I've dug this out of the archive for you, from the cattle wagon topic.

 

So far Oxford have produced wheelsets with (at least) two different axle lengths, longer and shorter than the OO standard of 26mm. They may not have reinvented the wheel, but they seem to be trying to reinvent the axle.

 

And would you believe it, those on the TOAD have 27.3mm axles !

[57xx]

I've dug this out of the archive for you, from the cattle wagon topic.

 

 

And would you believe it, those on the TOAD have 27.3mm axles !

 

With Oxford, I'd believe they are capable of anything... apart from getting things right.

[tomparryharry]

I've dug this out of the archive for you, from the cattle wagon topic.

 

 

And would you believe it, those on the TOAD have 27.3mm axles !

 No doubt a variation on the RTR P4 idea.

 

We'll get there, someday......

 

Ian.

[2996 Victor]

Please excuse the thread resurrection, but I recently sought out one of these wagons from my favourite local emporium with the intention of following Quarryscapes' example in the pages above.

 

Unfortunately, the only version they had was the weathered one. The box has a natty little sticker on it proudly saying "Weathered in Wales". Although I'm not Welsh, I have worked in Wales for several years now, and flatter myself that I know something of the climate. However, I'm not sure in which part of the Principality this kind of effect might be expected:

 

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Does anyone know a good method of stipping off the paint, and whether good transfers are available..... 

 

All the best,

 

Mark 

[57xx]

16 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

However, I'm not sure in which part of the Principality this kind of effect might be expected:

 

In a siding next to a field with a farmer and a muck spreader...?

[2996 Victor]

20 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

In a siding next to a field with a farmer and a muck spreader...?

 

From the look of it, I'd say that's spot-on! 

[57xx]

No doubt someone will be along soon with a pic of a wagon in a siding being covered in muck.. there's a prototype for everything.