Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[scottrains29]

On 24/10/2019 at 09:45, Cbpete said:

email back from them saying still waiting for licence

It's strange that it is taking so long for the Virgin licence. Hornby, Lima, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol and Vitrains have all produced 00 Virgin stock over the years. It makes you wonder how bad ORs representation of the Virgin livery is.

 

If they had brought the coaches to market to coincide with the release of Hornby Virgin class 87 I'm sure they'd get quite a few sales!

Perhaps the delay is due to OR working on a 86 to release at the same time! After all, their Virgin MK3 picture showed more 86 than MK3!

[MGR Hooper!]

3 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

It's strange that it is taking so long for the Virgin licence. Hornby, Lima, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol and Vitrains have all produced 00 Virgin stock over the years. It makes you wonder how bad ORs representation of the Virgin livery is.

 

If they had brought the coaches to market to coincide with the release of Hornby Virgin class 87 I'm sure they'd get quite a few sales!

Perhaps the delay is due to OR working on a 86 to release at the same time! After all, their Virgin MK3 picture showed more 86 than MK3!

 

Any link to that post of the Virgin Class 86 and Mk.3???

[scottrains29]

6 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

Any link to that post of the Virgin Class 86 and Mk.3???

https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/products/mk3a-fo-virgin-west-coast-11042-or763fo003

[killucan2]

On 24/10/2019 at 18:32, NIRCLASS80 said:

When released they also said that Irish Rail ones would follow but still waiting. 

Oxford mk3s are loco hauled,irishrail mk3s are Hst coaches,different roof detail.

[NIRCLASS80]

43 minutes ago, killucan2 said:

Oxford mk3s are loco hauled,irishrail mk3s are Hst coaches,different roof detail.

Yeah, well aware. But I think it’s more representation than accuracy just like Lima coach releases of the past. 

[Simon Bendall]

On ‎28‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 13:11, scottrains29 said:

It's strange that it is taking so long for the Virgin licence. Hornby, Lima, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol and Vitrains have all produced 00 Virgin stock over the years. It makes you wonder how bad ORs representation of the Virgin livery is.

 

The line from Oxford was that another company (not necessarily in model railways) had abused the Virgin image rights and as a consequence Virgin was completely reviewing its granting of licences. That was something like two and a half years ago though.

[Johnfromoz]

Having recently unpacked and examined my oxford Mark 3s purchased a year or more ago, I feel the topic of Oxfords appalling build quality with these coaches needs revisiting.

 

The issue of loose/missing door footsteps, buffers etc has been well documented and such issues were present on all five coaches, but on opening the Mark3a buffet I find that they have surpassed themselves.....chassis so loose from the body that it dropped down to the floor, the plastic chassis so thin that it bows severely on the slightest pressure. And of course,  the minute springs upon which the close coupling mechanism depends are missing from both ends and loose in the box. As some would know, relocating these is a nightmare.

 

All in all, a cheap and nasty product. People may bag the Hornby Mark3s as crude and long in the tooth (and with their own errors in production) but they are at least a solid, robust build that I much prefer. I will not buy further Oxford coaching stock while such poor quality persists (they are not THAT cheap after all...)

[Waverley West]

1 hour ago, Johnfromoz said:

Having recently unpacked and examined my oxford Mark 3s purchased a year or more ago, I feel the topic of Oxfords appalling build quality with these coaches needs revisiting.

 

The issue of loose/missing door footsteps, buffers etc has been well documented and such issues were present on all five coaches, but on opening the Mark3a buffet I find that they have surpassed themselves.....chassis so loose from the body that it dropped down to the floor, the plastic chassis so thin that it bows severely on the slightest pressure. And of course,  the minute springs upon which the close coupling mechanism depends are missing from both ends and loose in the box. As some would know, relocating these is a nightmare.

 

All in all, a cheap and nasty product. People may bag the Hornby Mark3s as crude and long in the tooth (and with their own errors in production) but they are at least a solid, robust build that I much prefer. I will not buy further Oxford coaching stock while such poor quality persists (they are not THAT cheap after all...)

 

Such a shame. I had really high hopes for these when they were first announced and was looking to replace 30-40 Hornby Mk 3s (3 HST rakes, 3 Mk 3 ScotRail push-pull rakes and some sleepers). I was also in touch with Oxford quite a lot in the early days, but lost interest when they decided not to fit lights. I lost even more interest once the shortcomings of the model became apparent.

 

I'll be keeping my Hornby ones for the foreseeable future now. They scrub up pretty well with window frame etches, lazer glaze, corridor connectors and a respray, which I had already done on them anyway. The Hornby ones look like a Mk 3 to me. I just need to fit them with lights now. The roof detail discrepancies don't bother me and with the Oxford ones, I'd just be replacing one set of shortcomings with another.

 

I think this is the challenge that companies bringing out new models face these days, improving what are already pretty decent models. Fall short and many people just won't be interested. Fortunately, many of the new model ventures (Accurascale, Cavalex, SLW, etc.) seem to be up for this challenge.

 

Looking on the bright side, at least it's saved me a fair amount of money. 

 

 

[MJI]

Were good in one way

 

Cheap Jouefs on Ebay for 3a stock.

[ThaneofFife]

On 29/11/2019 at 09:49, Johnfromoz said:

Having recently unpacked and examined my oxford Mark 3s purchased a year or more ago, I feel the topic of Oxfords appalling build quality with these coaches needs revisiting.

 

The issue of loose/missing door footsteps, buffers etc has been well documented and such issues were present on all five coaches, but on opening the Mark3a buffet I find that they have surpassed themselves.....chassis so loose from the body that it dropped down to the floor, the plastic chassis so thin that it bows severely on the slightest pressure. And of course,  the minute springs upon which the close coupling mechanism depends are missing from both ends and loose in the box. As some would know, relocating these is a nightmare.

 

All in all, a cheap and nasty product. People may bag the Hornby Mark3s as crude and long in the tooth (and with their own errors in production) but they are at least a solid, robust build that I much prefer. I will not buy further Oxford coaching stock while such poor quality persists (they are not THAT cheap after all...)

 

since Hornby adopted tinted glazing on the windows I thought they still weren't bad coaches at around £30.  if they somehow incorporated the coach ends of their new plug door mk3s with correct profile gangways, mk3a roof and some closer couplings Hornby would sell even more units.   the fidelity in some areas is great on the oxfords but we are still missing the definitive 4mm scale Mk3 (the sort you could imagine Accurascale taking on).

[Hilux5972]

Given that’s it’s a massive year for Hornby next year, I wouldn’t be surprised if they announce new Mk3 and Mk3a’s. Oxford really dropped the ball with these. Hornby could really clean up if they get them out fast and correct! 

[tractor_37260]

On 06/06/2019 at 17:44, apollo 079 said:

E-mail from Oxford confirms it will be 12014 and 12030 (in ScotRail).

 

Aye all very well, but when are they going to release them...................?

[mdvle]

On 01/12/2019 at 23:00, Hilux5972 said:

Given that’s it’s a massive year for Hornby next year, I wouldn’t be surprised if they announce new Mk3 and Mk3a’s. Oxford really dropped the ball with these. Hornby could really clean up if they get them out fast and correct! 

 

Total speculation on my part, but

 

1) the current CEO of Hornby owns 51% of LCD Enterprises (owner of Oxford)

2) Hornby owns 49% of Oxford.

3) Hornby have some new tooling for Mk3 coaches (the slide door rebuilds).

4) I suspect, much like the Terrier, Hornby view the HST as "theirs"

 

I would be surprised if the new Hornby Mk3 tooling did not allow for the older versions to be made, as it would seem to be an obvious next step.

 

Given the ownership of Oxford, and that Oxford have apparently backed away from their original plans to do Mk3 variations, it would seem that the way has been made for Hornby to proceed with further Mk3 versions from new tooling.  I would guess the HST Mk3 first, with M3ka's possibly in the future.

 

The only real question is what level of effort/quality Hornby put into the model.

[GordonC]

7 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Total speculation on my part, but

 

1) the current CEO of Hornby owns 51% of LCD Enterprises (owner of Oxford)

2) Hornby owns 49% of Oxford.

3) Hornby have some new tooling for Mk3 coaches (the slide door rebuilds).

4) I suspect, much like the Terrier, Hornby view the HST as "theirs"

 

I would be surprised if the new Hornby Mk3 tooling did not allow for the older versions to be made, as it would seem to be an obvious next step.

 

Given the ownership of Oxford, and that Oxford have apparently backed away from their original plans to do Mk3 variations, it would seem that the way has been made for Hornby to proceed with further Mk3 versions from new tooling.  I would guess the HST Mk3 first, with M3ka's possibly in the future.

 

The only real question is what level of effort/quality Hornby put into the model.

 

Bearing in mind the number of attempts there have been at Mk3s (Joueff, Lima, Hornby, Oxford Rail) and the quantity of those that will be available on the second-hand market then the market for just 'good-enough' Mk3s must be saturated if you're going to do more than just bring out new liveries so the only real gap would be for a top quality one. I had hoped Oxford Rail would fill that spot but their colour blindness and poor build quality have put an end to that

[adb968008]

On 06/12/2019 at 02:59, mdvle said:

 

Total speculation on my part, but

 

1) the current CEO of Hornby owns 51% of LCD Enterprises (owner of Oxford)

2) Hornby owns 49% of Oxford.

3) Hornby have some new tooling for Mk3 coaches (the slide door rebuilds).

4) I suspect, much like the Terrier, Hornby view the HST as "theirs"

 

I would be surprised if the new Hornby Mk3 tooling did not allow for the older versions to be made, as it would seem to be an obvious next step.

 

Given the ownership of Oxford, and that Oxford have apparently backed away from their original plans to do Mk3 variations, it would seem that the way has been made for Hornby to proceed with further Mk3 versions from new tooling.  I would guess the HST Mk3 first, with M3ka's possibly in the future.

 

The only real question is what level of effort/quality Hornby put into the model.

Alternatively....

 

maybe the Hornby Brand has greater reach, depth and resonance to be able to sell more mk3’s than Oxford ?

so let Hornby get on with the latest & greatest more common & popular versions, let Oxfords trickle in the background.

 

i’m not Sure I see any point to Oxfords mk3 in Virgin trains livery for example.. it’s gone, Virgins gone, and Hornby ones are discounted on the shelves.

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by adb968008

[turbos]

Hornby are currently too busy producing the refurbished Mk3 trailers to be putting their finite resources in to doing a Mk3a, I don’t see any part of a refurbished Mk3 trailer that would be suitable for a Mk3a without it being at least as unsatisfactory as the current offerings.

I expect the Oxford ScotRail Mk3a TSO twinpack will appear this year as the first batch of singles of these flew off the shelves. 
The Oxford Mk3a is not going to have competition for quite some time. Like it or lump it.

Brian.

[mdvle]

1 minute ago, turbos said:

Hornby are currently too busy producing the refurbished Mk3 trailers to be putting their finite resources in to doing a Mk3a, I don’t see any part of a refurbished Mk3 trailer that would be suitable for a Mk3a without it being at least as unsatisfactory as the current offerings.

 

It all depends on how Hornby designed the new Mk3 molds.  If they tooled it with the required slides/etc then there is no reason the new tooling couldn't handle doing the slide door Mk3's as well as the original Mk3/Mk3a.

 

And as for finite resources, given the demand that exists for something better than the current Hornby offerings it has the potential to offer a nice return on what would be a relatively minimal additional tooling cost given they already did the sliding door Mk3.

 

The other side of this is that Oxford indicated at the beginning that their Mk3 design would allow for the various Mk3 options to be done at that the Mk3a was in essence just the beginning.  All those other versions seem to have been quietly dropped, and if it isn't so Hornby can move in with a new tooled Mk3 then somebody else will at some point step up and do it.

 

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

maybe the Hornby Brand has greater reach, depth and resonance to be able to sell more mk3’s than Oxford ?

so let Hornby get on with the latest & greatest more common & popular versions, let Oxfords trickle in the background.

 

Good point, but is also just re-enforces the point that Oxford Rail is unlikely to be a major player in the UK market.  Depending on their overheads (and thus ability to make a profit on more risky/niche products) they may continue to offer some new stuff but they aren't going to compete with Hornby as long as Hornby effectively owns them.

[James90012]

On 30/07/2019 at 20:52, James90012 said:

Advice time

 

I tried to change the couplings and the springs ended up out of place. Getting them back in was tricky but now the small screws that hold the seating plastic to the chassis aren't gripping. Has anyone else had this issue and recommend a solution? It's critical because the seating plastic keeps the coupling mechanism in place, otherwise it hangs low.

 

These really are such poor build quality, I ordered Hornbys latest virgin MK3s because I was so disheartened with these.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Returned to these today to try the above and it's got even worse as the I've now lost at least one of the springs. Guessing replacement springs are not easy to find either?

[Johnfromoz]

James,

 

I feel your pain with these.  If ever there was a model railway product not fit for purpose its these Oxford Mark 3s. Sorely regret investing in four of them. Cheap, rubbishy product.  Once you dismantle them, good luck with reassembly. All parts bar the body shell are insanely flimsy.

 

I too returned to the Hornby version for my Virgin push pull train. Whatever minor errors they may have (hst/loco hauled detail) in my view they have a better visual profile and are streets ahead in build quality.

 

John

[Tiddles47]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before,  To closely couple my Oxford Rail MK3's on 2nd rad curves without buffer locking, what size Kadees's would I need or would the continental hoop type coupling be ok? I'm currently using the bar type that Hornby use with their Maunsells. But the gap is still a big big. Ta

Edited January 5, 2020 by Tiddles47

[young37215]

Page 76 and previous few pages of this thread discuss close coupling and best solutions found so far. 

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

I have had a reply from Oxford Rail about the Virgin Mk3s. They are due this year but there isn't a release date. 

[mdvle]

4 hours ago, scumcat said:

I don’t think it quite works like that, when a mould is built it’s built in its entirety they don’t borrow bits of it for other models anymore. Like when they did the railroad stuff many complained at a newly tooled LNER tender that was inferior to the existing one. It’s because they are all made in different factories. If you start taking bits of a mould set away to make other things. Moulds get mixed up and lost.

 

It's not a case of "borrowing bits".  Rather the mould is designed and tooled up using slides/inserts and other techniques so that the basic part of the mould can be altered to produce different items with different windows/doors for example.

 

And thus all these parts would be kept together as one set of moulds

 

Thus, for example (used only because Rapido has explicitly stated it as a fact) when Rapido designed their CPR Royal Hudson (which is semi-streamlined) they don't need to tool up an entirely new model to do the standard CPR Hudson's and so the cost will be substantially less - less new tooling required, and getting additional use out of some of the existing tooling.

[mdvle]

51 minutes ago, scumcat said:

Thanks for this I was only going by what the Hornby stand told me a few years ago that they do

 

To a certain extent it depends on what is being talked about, and what the original tooling was designed for.

 

For example, using your LNER tender example, yes they likely would tool up a new tender when tooling a new steam loco for two main reasons - one, as you mentioned, to keep the tooling together, and two, because in the costs of tooling a steam loco the tender is a more (relatively) cheap portion so the cost savings of re-using a tender aren't enough to compensate for the complications.

 

Also, if they don't design the tooling at the beginning for the variations then it may be too difficult/expensive to modify the tooling thus resulting in new tooling.

 

But if the tooling is designed from the beginning to be flexible enough for the variations then the additional upfront costs for more complicated tooling can be more than offset by not needing to tool up entirely new moulds for a different version.