Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[Hilux5972]

Thanks for sharing Bruce. A massive step up from Hornby.

[Marcyg]

Great photos and great to read someone's impression who actually has one. I'm not about to replace my large fleet of Lima ones for them, but I do like the nice touches to them, the etc sockets and the steps really set them apart from the older breed

[tractor_37260]

Apart from the buffers, for the Mk3a daycoaches, visibly - The roof vents, the Wheelslide Prevention equipment manufacturer (Girling for the 3a's and BR for the 3b / HST's), ETH as opposed to 3ph ETS having different coupling arrangements / sockets, drop head as opposed to fixed head autocouplers, different underframe module layouts / module doors are the most obvious one's and also different livery / lining on the B&G version.

 

Thanks for the clarification...............

 

Ken

[royaloak]

Apart from the buffers, for the Mk3a daycoaches, visibly - The roof vents, the Wheelslide Prevention equipment manufacturer (Girling for the 3a's and BR for the 3b / HST's), ETH as opposed to 3ph ETS having different coupling arrangements / sockets, drop head as opposed to fixed head autocouplers, different underframe module layouts / module doors are the most obvious one's and also different livery / lining on the B&G version.

Plenty of HST trailers have Girling WSP (40119, 41004, 41008, 42025, 42026 plus many more), unfortunately I dont have many pictures of loco hauled mark 3s to check but the few Chiltern mark 3s I have photos of all have the BR WSP fitted and the Pretendolino 3As all have Girling.

 

Sounds like another example of photographic evidence required.

Edited January 18, 2018 by royaloak

[fozzy280472]

Thanks for posting the pictures Bruce, if the blue / grey ones are as good I'll be very happy , these look very nice indeed , now we just have to wait for comments along the lines of theres two rivets missing from the roof therefore I won't be touching them and stick with my Hornby shorties....!!!!!

[Bob Reid]

Plenty of HST trailers have Girling WSP (40119, 41004, 41008, 42025, 42026 plus many more), unfortunately I dont have many pictures of loco hauled mark 3s to check but the few Chiltern mark 3s I have photos of all have the BR WSP fitted and the Pretendolino 3As all have Girling.

 

Sounds like another example of photographic evidence required.

 

I wouldn't bother all Mk3a daycoaches (SO/FO) were built with Girling WSP equipment. Only a small proportion of the early HST daycoaches (TF/TS) were built with Girling, the majority having BR.

[wombatofludham]

Yes they are on the outside of the windows.

 

Bruce

Thanks. Better get some square no smoking transfers ordered, I'm not allowing all my cheap e-Bay Chinese seated figures inflict their nicotine habit on the rest of 4mm scale humanplasticity, it's bad enough they all have the same black gloss pudding bowl hair cut as Kim Jong Un.

[rembrow]

 

Word of warning: I don't know if these have been "forgotten" but for some reason the footsteps on both my models were only held in place with luck... and promptly fell off! Fortunately all were recovered and simple enough to refit with a dash of superglue - you have been warned!! 

 

 

 

To emphasise D400's warning, I have 3 Oxford Mk3as, two TSOs and one FO and on all of them, the passenger door footboards (4 per coach) were only push fitted, with three having come adrift at one end. The models have wrap round clear plastic at each end, presumably to avoid scuffing marks, and this seems to keep the footboards next to the body, so when you remove this film, take care to have the model over a surface and remove or push fit the footboards back in place. I've successfully secured mine with Slaters MekPak, however three needed to have the footboard end moulding, which wraps around the coach end, filed out, to clear the coach body end.

[royaloak]

I wouldn't bother all Mk3a daycoaches (SO/FO) were built with Girling WSP equipment. Only a small proportion of the early HST daycoaches (TF/TS) were built with Girling, the majority having BR.

So why do all the Chiltern mark 3s I have photos of (ex mark 3A day coaches) now have BR WSP fitted instead of the Girling type?

 

Do you know when were they modified?

Where any modified in BR/Privatisation days?

Were they all changed when the doors were modified?

Were any others changed?

Edited January 19, 2018 by royaloak

[Bob Reid]

I'm not sure the Chiltern Mk3a's are fitted with BR Wheelslide Equipment, I suspect these are a more modern version produced by Knorr-Bremse (outwardly they look similar to the BR type) which I think was done at the same time as the Chiltern Stock refurbishment.  I stopped being involved with them in 2000 and I've not kept up to date on some of the more recent modifications But I can't remember them being altered in BR days or during the first five years of privatisation anyway...

 

[royaloak]

Thanks for the info.

 

So we have 2 visually similar WSP systems, that could make things interesting.

 

I will keep an eye out for what is fitted to our HST sets, I am on nights tomorrow.

[Patriot87003]

Well I succumbed ... and bought one of each of those available so far. Overall I'm very impressed, lovely smooth and free running and no derailments so far from being hauled or pushed. I agree with the observations above regarding the footboards probably benefiting from a touch of glue to secure. I think they could benefit from further closer coupling, possibly using Kadees?

 

I've taken a couple of pictures, the first comparing to a recent Hornby Mk3 and the second coupled up to an 87. I'll let others judge which shade is closer to being correct for the lower body side!

[andyman7]

To emphasise D400's warning, I have 3 Oxford Mk3as, two TSOs and one FO and on all of them, the passenger door footboards (4 per coach) were only push fitted, with three having come adrift at one end. The models have wrap round clear plastic at each end, presumably to avoid scuffing marks, and this seems to keep the footboards next to the body, so when you remove this film, take care to have the model over a surface and remove or push fit the footboards back in place. I've successfully secured mine with Slaters MekPak, however three needed to have the footboard end moulding, which wraps around the coach end, filed out, to clear the coach body end.

I phoned my retailer to ask if he had these in and he said yes but was considering sending them back because the steps were all falling off. I said I'd be happy to take a pair nonetheless as I can cope with reattaching them but it does seem they're a bit vulnerable as supplied. Maybe just stick in a bag as detailing part for future releases?

[DaveClass47]

Right I got my Oxford coaches today.  Was really looking forward to them and I have to say they are a good product.

 

Plus points:

the shape is spot on.

The end detail is superb. I mean SUPERB.  

The interiors detail is great.

Wheel details are there (even if they look chunky)

Bogies are really well moulded.

Coupler mechanism is impressive

 

 

Niggles:

Those silly separately fitted door steps.....they all fell off!!!

The colour of the intercity grey/beige.  Its just too grey. Its not right!  See photos.   I knew it wouldn't match the real ones....Hornby have come closest to this in my opinion

The toilet windows are incorrect.  The hand painted pre delivery ones had white painted loo windows.  The production ones show the white behind the tinted glass.  Wrong and looks weird.

The grab rails on the roof panel are a nice touch, but they are over scale.

The ribs on the MK3 roof....they are tiny.  Not deep enough.

No aluminium rim around the windows as per the prototype.

With the tension lock couplers in place the gap is actually wider than that on a Hornby MK3!!

The central door locking light dates it to after 1993....pity as I model the late 1980's!

 

I am doing an review on my youtube channel and give a warts n all opinion on them.   Great value for money though!   Good try Oxford!   Hopefully when you merge with Hornby we will get your mouldings, couplers but with correct coloured livery, roof detail and correct loo windows! lol

 

Will it kill off the Hornby MK3?....No.   Its not faultless, just like the Hornby one!   Still a place for both. 

 

See both photos....one showing a real MK3A (in Pullman legend intercity) and the other my Oxford one at Dean Park Station.   Now you tell me that the livery is correct? lol

 

I feel happy they have done a good job, but disappointed that its not fault free!  See my review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKrpzQc6FpE

Edited January 19, 2018 by DaveClass47

[adb968008]

whoa...

don't be too hasty.

 

it does look too light, but i'll reserve my judgement until I've compared both the Oxford models with my photo collection (I have several images from the early - mid 90s).

 

but in the pictures above your comparing mid-late 1980s British Rail intercity 'Executive' livery (c1983-1987, but lived onto the 90's), against 1987-1996s Sectorised Intercity 'Swallow' livery. I always personally remembered comparing BA Swallow white as a silver white, like Concorde, where as the earlier grey livery was more drab. The Dark Grey on Swallow livery was more of a black too where as Executive dark grey was precisely that.

 

There are differences, but the Oxford coach is quite definitely a period 8-10 years later than the coach parked next to it.  I don't recall ever seeing 'Manchester Pullman' Intercity stock still being named by 'Swallow' times.

 

The Oxford coach has the 1990's features right.. Orange Cantrail, CDL locking etc.. the Manchester Pullman picture is pre-CDL and pre-Orange Cantrails, the Intercity font is the earlier style and the number will probably be large with an 'M' prefix too.

 

There is one feature that modellers should consider to add to these models that is just crying to be added.. I've got a stash of  nearly 100 different originals in my office collected from my traveling spotting jaunts.. (I'll leave that teaser till the am)...

 

I think your right, in being too light, but the comparison should at least be Apples for Apples and compare the same liveries.

Edited January 20, 2018 by adb968008

[GordonC]

does the dark grey not look too dark? it looks almost black

 

and I didn't think there was a difference between the intercity executive dark grey and the swallow falcon grey on coaching stock although it always looked darker on locos with the lighter lower colour

[adb968008]

does the dark grey not look too dark? it looks almost black

 

and I didn't think there was a difference between the intercity executive dark grey and the swallow falcon grey on coaching stock although it always looked darker on locos with the lighter lower colour

 

No it definitely was darker, almost (if not) black.

 

It kind of went that way.. I recall 47508 and 47831 appearing in the 'in between' intercity executive and intercity swallow liveries, somewhat of a hybrid... but 47834 was black.

 

47831 Bolton Wanderer..

 

103_2.jpg

 

47834 Fire Fly

 

 

(Edit: replaced the image of 47834 as it's a broken link... heres another of 47834)

2734825513_0d6092c0b2_z.jpg

(end edit)

 

as a guide look at the black rubber seals around the windows on both images...

 

 

Note 47831 didn't have Intercity branding in that livery, it wasnt assumed Intercity was going to be a sector, hence the Branding disappeared for a while, from the earlier 'Executive Livery'... There wasnt a Regional Railways or a Cross Country at this stage, and Intercity wasnt associated with Mainline (and this became the livery name)... eventually RR came as did Intercity return and Mainline livery faded away from 47s but was reborn on 37s. Things got a little bit experimental at this time, 47522 emerged in "Parcels" livery (LNER Apple green), but the 'Parcels' branding was quickly painted out, followed by 47475 in 'Transpenine' livery  and 47561 in Midland Red (I knew via my father, a very senior director at BR Parcels who was quite keen to have this adopted as Parcels livery, he was a Derby guy, and was behind it's sanctioning, but he didn't get away with all of it, but he did see that parcels sector (Later RES) was Red as a result).. the railways were colourfully experimental at this time, which as the lack of leadership / branding was concerned allowed all kinds of weird celebrity repaints to follow 47145 must have been the worst. Ive even got a picture of a 'Regional Railways' Branded Dutch livered 31.. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by adb968008

[tractor_37260]

Well I succumbed ... and bought one of each of those available so far. Overall I'm very impressed, lovely smooth and free running and no derailments so far from being hauled or pushed. I agree with the observations above regarding the footboards probably benefiting from a touch of glue to secure. I think they could benefit from further closer coupling, possibly using Kadees?

I've taken a couple of pictures, the first comparing to a recent Hornby Mk3 and the second coupled up to an 87. I'll let others judge which shade is closer to being correct for the lower body side!

I think both shades of Grey on the lower bodyside look suspect the Hornby one is their usual yucky yellowish shade of Exec Light Grey, the Ox Rail coach has almost a Silver White shade as was used on Swallow liveried loco lower skirts whereas AFAIK Swallow branded coaches remained Exec Light and Dark Grey when rebranded with italic script and smaller no's.... Edited January 19, 2018 by tractor_37260

[newbryford]

 

 

There is one feature that modellers should consider to add to these models that is just crying to be added.. I've got a stash of  nearly 100 different originals in my office collected from my traveling spotting jaunts.. (I'll leave that teaser till the am)...

 

 

Window labels........

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Scottish-Exile]

There is one feature that modellers should consider to add to these models that is just crying to be added.. I've got a stash of  nearly 100 different originals in my office collected from my traveling spotting jaunts.. (I'll leave that teaser till the am)...

 

 

Lol. Flogged my similar sized  collection off on eBay.

[adb968008]

The grey on the coaches was always the same.

 

Locos were different. 47831 is in mainline which used a lighter shade of grey.

 

47834 is in swallow which is the same shade as used on coaching stock.

 

Mainline was introduced for locos that would be shared between sectors as explained 5 mins into this video

 

 

47522 was a one off and 47475 became the only one painted as it was outshopped just before the 4 standard liveries were launched (as in youtube vid)

 

both 47522 and 47475 were one offs.. history tells us that.

But they weren't initially planned as such, they were experimental, sanctioned in 47522s case as a Doncaster event. 47522 was considered to be Parcels livery, but the Parcels team above Euston station, and at Derby were having none of it... thats why the "Parcels" branding disappeared.  I'm 100% on this.. I can give you the names of the two senior directors via pm if you wish (one at Derby and one at London) who vetoed it... as a clue one was behind the organisation of Coalvilles open days... I can safely say I know as I was there as a whipper snapper listening beside my father and a guy running a consultancy from Stockport behind developing a branded livery for Parcels team (pre-RES and Roundel). Parcels at one point considered using Royal Mail red.. but its a licensed shade.

 

 

now you see it..

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5171/5448422221_7cdb264c3f_b.jpg

 

now you don't..

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trains/East-Coast-Main-Line/i-d8GrmKZ/0/74cda889/XL/GMP_Slide19102_47522_HST_LeedsCity_240588-XL.jpg

Edited January 20, 2018 by adb968008

[adb968008]

They were planned. I was editing my post while you replied.

 

47522 was done for a Doncaster works open day and there was talk of some of the 47 ETH conversions getting provincial as far back as 1986. It took until 1989 for it to happen though.

 

not necessarily planned as a one off.. is what I'm trying to say.

 

there was management push for Parcels to adopt 47522's Green livery... but the Parcels team at Euston and the Mail team at Derby weren't having it. 

 

Instead they were sanctioned to approve a new livery, based off the standard BR Palet of approved colour shades. (Yellow, Red, Dark/light grey etc)... the teams went for Red.. due to proximity to it's largest customer.. and a midland bias.. they weren't going to take Green. 47522 made it easy by having an accident and was a convienient early adopter of Parcels red along with 47474 Sir Rowland Hill and 47489 Crewe Diesel Depot in 1990. 

 

If you look online you will find a  bunch of proposed Parcels liveries, I don't think those were secret, somewhere I have a copy of them, (as a Kid not knowing better.. I drew pictures on the back of them), a couple of years later I was doing Work Experience at the Parcels sector offices above Euston (now called RES) with the same people doing a research assignment into cause & % of delays & costs attribution.. something a bit ahead of it's time for the early 1990s got me a B in GCSE though and a fantastic reference (which I never used) from some very senior BR guys..ok I knew them and it was a family favour to have got that opportunity. I have a funny story attached to that.. I commuted on the Pullman (I believe as it was all 1st) from manchester to London Euston daily for the task, but I indicated Ive never been from St Pancras.. so on the last day they got me a special green ticket (paper written edmundson types for staff travel then) and wrote St Pancras via Sheffield to Manchester.. DK rode with me to Derby, where on arrival I found i'd lost the ticket.. he said well I'm on my own now, but he got me into the cab with a driver from Derby to Sheffield with a hastily written signed letter, but luckily I found my ticket for the ride via the Hope Valley back to Piccadilly so I got the round about way home, and got a cab ride out of it too.

 

Anyways maybe this is for a different thread.

Edited January 20, 2018 by adb968008

[tractor_37260]

No it definitely was darker, almost (if not) black.

 

It kind of went that way.. I recall 47508 and 47831 appearing in the 'in between' intercity executive and intercity swallow liveries, somewhat of a hybrid... but 47834 was black.

 

47831 Bolton Wanderer..

 

103_2.jpg

 

47834 Fire Fly

https://hobbydb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/processed_uploads/catalog_item_photo/catalog_item_photo/image/203427/Bachmann_Modern_Locomotives_Class_47_47834_Fire_Fly_BR_Intercity_Swallow_Model_Trains_%28Locomotives%29_30b56d44-7097-464c-b63f-6ddaac404ff8.jpg

 

as a guide look at the black rubber seals around the windows...

 

 

Note 47831 didn't have Intercity branding in that livery, it wasnt assumed Intercity was going to be a sector, hence the Branding disappeared for a while, from the earlier 'Executive Livery'... There wasnt a Regional Railways or a Cross Country at this stage, and Intercity wasnt associated with Mainline (and this became the livery name)... eventually RR came as did Intercity return and Mainline livery faded away from 47s but was reborn on 37s. Things got a little bit experimental at this time, 47522 emerged in "Parcels" livery (LNER Apple green), but the 'Parcels' branding was quickly painted out, followed by 47475 in 'Transpenine' livery (which was suggested to be the replacement of Mainline) and 47561 in Midland Red (I knew via my father, a very senior director at BR Parcels who was quite keen to have this adopted as Parcels livery, he was a Derby guy, and was behind it's sanctioning, but he didn't get away with all of it, but he did see that parcels sector (Later RES) was Red as a result).. the railways were colourfully experimental at this time, which as the lack of leadership / branding was concerned allowed all kinds of weird celebrity repaints to follow 47145 must have been the worst. Ive even got a picture of a 'Regional Railways' Branded Dutch livered 31..

 

Mainline liveried locos were the same as original Inter -City locos Exec Light and Dark Grey with no brandings.

 

Swallow liveried locos/HST's were Falcon Grey and Silver White various 47's and a few 37/0+37/5s as used on the Sleeper service.

[adb968008]

Mainline liveried locos were the same as original Inter -City locos Exec Light and Dark Grey with no brandings.

 

Swallow liveried locos/HST's were Falcon Grey and Silver White various 47's and a few 37/0+37/5s as used on the Sleeper service.

 

Agreed,

The yellow ends were not wrapped around, the lining went right to the cab front on Mainline.

The numbers were also much smaller.

 

Everyones favourite  47406 Rail Riders.. in Executive Intercity

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7322/11086850774_c6df313873_b.jpg

 

47508 SS Great Britain in Mainline intercity.. (same as above, but an evolution of it, with smaller numbers, non-wrap around yellow ends, no branding).

5447642853_b9ecefd263_b.jpg

 

47806 Intercity Swallow..  as mentioned the silver white / dark grey following the style evolution of Mainline but different shades.

9510828416_34dcf0eb06_b.jpg

 

 

Anyways we seem to have digressed from mk3's.

Edited January 20, 2018 by adb968008

[tractor_37260]

The yellow ends were not wrapped around, the lining went right to the cab front.

The numbers were also much smaller.

 

Everyones favourite  47406 Rail Riders.. in Executive Intercity

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7322/11086850774_c6df313873_b.jpg

 

47508 SS Great Britain in Mainline intercity.. (same as above, but an evolution of it, with smaller numbers, non-wrap around yellow ends, no branding).

5447642853_b9ecefd263_b.jpg

 

47806 Intercity Swallow..  as mentioned the silver white / dark grey following the style evolution of Mainline but different shades.

9510828416_34dcf0eb06_b.jpg

Yes I'd agree with all of the above I was only referring to the shades of Grey used not the different applications one thing for sure no IC or Swallow 47 had Black applied only some early Heljan model ones....lol