Bob Reid Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 To save going back over old ground there's a fair bit of discussion about it back in October 2017..,. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107460-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-mk3-coaches/?view=findpost&p=2883506 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 What they've done is tried to mimic what is shown clearly here, where part of the raised window frame is still dark grey: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/25436-mk3-co-ex-fo-stock-photos-needed/?p=258256 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107460-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-mk3-coaches/?p=2652948 It doesn't work overly well when the glazing isn't flush with the window frame, otherwise it is accurate. If that's what they've done, all they're going to achieve by that is making the actual glazing look smaller than it should do..................... Not knowing anything about production practices, but that smacks of taking the easy way out. Cheaper and easier than trying to line half of the actual frame........... If anyones going to DeFine tomorrow, I'll be there and would love to see one of the OR ScoRail versions for myself, if you want to bring one along. I'll also have my OR 3a that has had the Extreme Etchings and respray done to it, for comparrison. Cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJ10 Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2019 Morning All, Some questions concerning Push Pull coach formations if I may. From my research and memory I believe the following to be correct In the Blue/Grey period (early 1980s) rakes were 4xTSO, 1xFO,1xDBSO Circa 1986 rakes were Scotrail livery and generally 3xTSO, 1xCO, 1xDBSO Late 1980's rakes appear to have been strengthened to 4xTSO, 1xCO, 1xDBSO No COs appeared in Blue/Grey, they were all Scotrail Questions 1. Why were the rakes reduced to 3xTSO. Did the COs given sufficient standard class capacity and the extra coaches were used to create other rakes? 2. Were all FOs converted to COs? if not how many COs were converted and how many FOs remained? And over what time period were the COs converted? 3. And finally, was the addition of another TSO at the end of the 1980s to cope with increased passenger numbers? Many thanks in advance PJ10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 From reading REXs article on Scotrail pushpull formations it was suggested that the reason for CO conversions was to balance an overprovision of first class and allow release of a TSO for use elsewhere. So seems that creating the COs was what allowed one TSO to be dropped from each set, but looks like later in 80s demand picked up to the extent that an additional TSO was needed even in addition to the extra half coach of seats in the CO. I only read this last night to decide on how many Oxford Mk3s to order... decided on 4 TSOs and 1 CO for my third PP set (first is made up of Lima Mk3s in Scotrail livery with a DC kits DBSO, second is Oxford Mk3s in B/G with Bach DBSO, third will now be Oxford Mk3s in Scotrail with Bach DBSO - i still have a further DBSO which may become an Aberdeen set with mixed Mk2s... also time will tell whether the Lima / DC rake will survive or be retired...). M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJ10 Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2019 Thanks Matt. Seems my understanding pretty much matches yours. I'm also trying to decide on Mk3 purchases. As you may know from earlier posts I'm not impressed with the Scotrail livery and now the addition the silver band on the glazing, I'm less impressed. But I'll wait to see one in the flesh before deciding on: blue/grey and renumber, Scotrail and professional repaint of the lower light grey Scotrail and just accept the difference Give it all up and take up tiddlywinks Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Now in stock at hattons and being dispatched. Now all I need is a dbso Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Angus Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Thanks Matt. Seems my understanding pretty much matches yours. I'm also trying to decide on Mk3 purchases. As you may know from earlier posts I'm not impressed with the Scotrail livery and now the addition the silver band on the glazing, I'm less impressed. But I'll wait to see one in the flesh before deciding on: blue/grey and renumber, Scotrail and professional repaint of the lower light grey Scotrail and just accept the difference Give it all up and take up tiddlywinks Cheers Hi PJ10 They have them in at Harburn Hobbies, I picked some up yesterday. The silver round the windows doesn't look bad and from any distance the fact that it is on the glazing rather than the frame is not noticeable. I'll try and post a decent photo. Best wishes Roddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Angus Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 The first photo shows the OR mk3 and the Bachmann DBSO for comparison of colours, the second shows the silver lining round the windows. Best wishes Roddy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJ10 Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2019 Hi Roddy, Thanks for posting these. You're correct the silver round the windows doesn't look too bad. However I don't think I can live with the difference in the light greys. And is the Mk3 actually taller than the DBSO as it appears to be in the photo? I've been a customer at Harburns all my life and try and get to the shop when I'm in Edinburgh seeing family. But I now live in Lancashire. A visit to my local shop to see them in the flesh is required. Thanks PJ10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66738 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 The silver around the window looks alright. Quite good in fact, but oh dear, the colours look so off compared to Bachmanns DBSO and 47/7, I just can’t bring myself to purchase them. I really wanted OR to turn this colour issue around, (goodness me, enough questions asked about it), but their stubbornness has cost them 4 or 5 coaches to be purchased from me. A shame. A crying shame. 66738 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold cambo74 Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2019 The silver around the window looks alright. Quite good in fact, but oh dear, the colours look so off compared to Bachmanns DBSO and 47/7, I just can’t bring myself to purchase them. I really wanted OR to turn this colour issue around, (goodness me, enough questions asked about it), but their stubbornness has cost them 4 or 5 coaches to be purchased from me. A shame. A crying shame. 66738 I've got a rake coming and aside from the lower bodyside grey - they dont look bad - I'll just have to get the airbrush out ... shouldn't have to but, needs must ..... I'll post some pics when done. Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley47708 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 DSCF4484.JPG DSCF4485.JPG The first photo shows the OR mk3 and the Bachmann DBSO for comparison of colours, the second shows the silver lining round the windows. Best wishes Roddy Thanks for posting, was hoping they have listened to the advice and looked again at the colour. Don't know if I am more angry or sad about this. What a lovely looking coach with some nice detailing, ruined by the appalling paint issue. It is not even close. Will be interesting to see what the magazine reviews make of colour issue, hope they don't just gloss over it . So Oxford Rail that is 5 x 2 x £30 saved to be spent on other models instead. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JDW Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2019 Let's be positive though - the black and beige might be a bit off but the shades of blue and white for the stripes are a pretty perfect match for the Mk2... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) Let's be positive though - the black and beige might be a bit off but the shades of blue and white for the stripes are a pretty perfect match for the Mk2... I'd like to be positive, but that "Black" ? should be Exec Dark Grey, and the Beige is miles off the correct colour, but OX Rail, despite a raft of controversy, doggedly stuck with what they thought were the correct colours, the Blue/White stripes being just a small part of the overall livery. Roddy Angus's photos above, show just how wrong the livery is on these coaches Lima made a better job of it 25+ years ago............... nuff said...... Edited January 12, 2019 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) Thanks for posting, was hoping they have listened to the advice and looked again at the colour. Don't know if I am more angry or sad about this. What a lovely looking coach with some nice detailing, ruined by the appalling paint issue. It is not even close. Will be interesting to see what the magazine reviews make of colour issue, hope they don't just gloss over it . So Oxford Rail that is 5 x 2 x £30 saved to be spent on other models instead. There's a thought... glossing over the beige might actually help judging by how many of my varnished models have turned a little bit yellow over time... I agree on the colour match issue but i'm convinced that getting the airbrush out and correcting both colours (easier now that silver on glazing...) will be way easier than to improve my Lima rake to a similar standard. I have the B/Grey Mk3as and parking next to the Lima / Hornby Mk3s makes the latter look like unsophisticated toys. They can be improved but by time corrected roof vents, changed glazing (even opening the Limas to do this ain't simple) and correcting the overthick silver frames I will have spent more time and money than repainting the OR versions. We shouldn't have to but at £29/each these are a bit of a bargain for what you get - they could have been fanstastic with correct colours though. PS this is from someone who HATES airbrushing by the way... PPS maybe I will set up a production line and repaint all my Intercity Hornby MK3s, Mk2ds, Mk3 sleepers & HSTs which also have the wrong lower bodyside colour... Edited January 12, 2019 by Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 The images of the ScotRail coaches make me even more convinced that Oxford have used the later Regional Railways "silver" grey rather than the "mushroom" grey used the Intercity stock. Which makes me wonder, did Intercity intend to move to silver grey to match Regional at some point (to keep paint costs down) but with privatisation looming didn't bother, and whether this is what Oxford claim is their "definitive" source? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jixer Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) Deleted, accidental duplicate post. Edited January 12, 2019 by jixer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jixer Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I'm going to have to go against the tide and say that I, personally, don't think the silver window printing works. It was good that they tried. But printing the silver on the window itself, rather than the frame, makes the Mk3 windows look much too small. I can't live with that. And that's before I start on the bodyside grey colour, which remains just plain wrong, regrettably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Lima made a better job of it 25+ years ago............... nuff said...... Absoulutely agree. I think Lima did the best ever IC colours actually - especially their "executive light grey" Even Hornby got the exective light grey good on their Mk4s back in the day. Why did it go so wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad McCann Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I think I’ll stick to repainting my ICs. Just need to get a good match for the Executive greys on the DBSO. Any thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) Davy, Railmatch 200 (Executive Light Grey) and 201 (Executive Dark Grey)..... Edited January 12, 2019 by Bob Reid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Davy, Railmatch 200 (Executive Light Grey) and 201 (Executive Dark Grey)..... Or Precision Paints P146 and P147 Ex Light and Dark Grey either option will give a good match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottrains29 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I wonder if OxfordRail could make the silvered window strip available as a spare to correct the odd looking intercity swallow ones? The colours Oxford used are bad enough but the lack of silver windows really makes them look rather odd. The silver framed windows would greatly help improve the look of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowlander Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) Hi Having seen the above pictured I have reluctantly cancelled my order for five coaches from Hattons. I resprayed the beige on the Intercity ones the last time. But I can't be bothered with all the hastle this time. Not knowing anything about coaches.I don't mind re-spraying red to blue. I take it Hornby are my best option? Thanks Stephen Edited January 13, 2019 by ayrmrg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James90012 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 The TSOs are showing 'pre order' again so have they sold out of their first batch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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