Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[njee20]

Yep, getting it right would have cost the same, but they didn’t, so that’s irrelevant. Changing it has a cost, however small that is, plus you annoy everyone who already has some and wants more, whose coaches then don’t match.

[Roddy Angus]

The elephant in the room here is that back in early 2016, Oxford Rail asked potential customers whether they wanted the liveries to match either the originals or models produced by other manufacturers.  At the time, on this forum, there was a fair bit of discussion along the lines of "let's hope they don't match with Hornby's interpretation of light Executive grey".  It would be interesting to know how many RMWebers responded to that survey, I did but I can't remember which way I voted, but I suspect I went for the "correct" colours.

 

The result of that survey was that the majority of responders were in favout of matching to the original colours (I don't want to focus on the arguement about what is the "correct" original colour).  This is understandable as most people probably though "I want it in the correct colour and it will then match other models" (no comment on Bachmann's versus Hornby's interpretation of the correct colours).

 

What has been produced are models which Oxford Rail claim, rightly or wrongly, match the original liveries, and they are now resting on the arguement that they asked the public and this is what the public said they wanted.  This is an understandable response.

 

The difficulty is that when the question was asked, responders thought the answer was obvious and that correct was best, even though what they might have wanted was the correct livery which matched the correct levery on other manufactures models.

 

Basically, we didn't understand what we thought was a simple question and we got it wrong, we didn't want the correct livery which we voted for, we actually wanted it to match with the other models we already have.

 

Whilst the answer may have been simple, the real problem was that we did not fully understand the question.  If we had all voted for matching with other manufacturer's models, then we would probably not be having 77 pages of disucssion.

 

In my case, I wish they had changed the colours so that they matched Bachmann but I can understand why they didn't.

 

For Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxyfans, think "42", for everyone else, any similarity to any referendum is purely co-incidental.

 

Best wishes

 

Roddy

[Pete the Elaner]

According to Oxford Rail, they DID get the livery correct.

It sounds like they used a proposed paint spec which was then changed before the livery was properly introduced & applied.

 

Selling out quickly is not going to persuade them that maybe they should revise their colour & see how the updated model sells.

[Legend]

The elephant in the room here is that back in early 2016, Oxford Rail asked potential customers whether they wanted the liveries to match either the originals or models produced by other manufacturers.  At the time, on this forum, there was a fair bit of discussion along the lines of "let's hope they don't match with Hornby's interpretation of light Executive grey".  It would be interesting to know how many RMWebers responded to that survey, I did but I can't remember which way I voted, but I suspect I went for the "correct" colours.

 

The result of that survey was that the majority of responders were in favout of matching to the original colours (I don't want to focus on the arguement about what is the "correct" original colour).  This is understandable as most people probably though "I want it in the correct colour and it will then match other models" (no comment on Bachmann's versus Hornby's interpretation of the correct colours).

 

What has been produced are models which Oxford Rail claim, rightly or wrongly, match the original liveries, and they are now resting on the arguement that they asked the public and this is what the public said they wanted.  This is an understandable response.

 

The difficulty is that when the question was asked, responders thought the answer was obvious and that correct was best, even though what they might have wanted was the correct livery which matched the correct levery on other manufactures models.

 

Basically, we didn't understand what we thought was a simple question and we got it wrong, we didn't want the correct livery which we voted for, we actually wanted it to match with the other models we already have.

 

Whilst the answer may have been simple, the real problem was that we did not fully understand the question.  If we had all voted for matching with other manufacturer's models, then we would probably not be having 77 pages of disucssion.

 

In my case, I wish they had changed the colours so that they matched Bachmann but I can understand why they didn't.

 

For Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxyfans, think "42", for everyone else, any similarity to any referendum is purely co-incidental.

 

Best wishes

 

Roddy

 

Good one!    We should have had a meaningful vote on the exact shade of executive light grey!

[GordonC]

I think Hornby are pretty close to getting it right with the sliding door version

 

They haven't painted them yet

[Legend]

They haven't painted them yet

 Me no understand!    The sliding door version wont be in executive light grey , unless that happens to be the shade used by Scotrail Inter7City livery .   The sliding door versions are modern and only cover GWR, Cross Country and Scotrail .  There's no executive versions

[njee20]

I presume it was a more general comment that clearly you can't assess a finished product until it's been painted, as evidenced by this very thread, where there's been no new discussion for about 72 pages!

[Legend]

I presume it was a more general comment that clearly you can't assess a finished product until it's been painted, as evidenced by this very thread, where there's been no new discussion for about 72 pages!

 

 

Cheers njee . I was taking things too literally !

[GordonC]

Cheers njee . I was taking things too literally !

 

Yes, its not just Intercity Executive that Hornby have struggled with paint shades for. The moulding can be as good as you like, but there's still room for the decoration to mess it up!!

[ThaneofFife]

Half the people on this thread are as belligerent as Oxford themselves. Yes the colours appear wrong. No they won’t change them any time soon, because as observed many times and roundly ignored they sold out literally overnight. That’s not a sign of a product with a grave flaw.

 

correct -"thats not" the sign of a grave flaw (it is to me still however but I respect your statement above)...…...

 

…...but what is the sign of grave flaws though are the feeble looking bogies and the incorrect under tray shape.  The less said about the window frames the better as thats been done to death here already.

 

frankly I am staggered these have sold out so whadda I know...….some people have no taste.

[njee20]

Thanks for proving my point!

 

The market has shown that it doesn't think there are grave flaws. Individuals may not agree, but macro economics doesn't really care about individuals!

 

You can insult those people all you like, but that's still the fact. Bask in the warm glow of the fact you're more discerning than them. Or something. Or just whinge about it online!

Edited January 15, 2019 by njee20

[wombatofludham]

It's also the case that for every one member of this forum there are probably at least half a dozen other modellers who know nothing of this site, or for that matter any other forum.  In my personal "modelling circle of friends" only two out of about a dozen or so have any presence here or on any online modelling sites.  Seven of the "circle" will potentially be interested in these models as they fit in with their primary modelling tastes.  Five of them are probably completely unaware of Greygate, and one of us who lurk around here has bought one anyway and may or may not weather it accordingly despite being aware of the colour issue.

Leaving me undecided, but not because of the colour, just whether they fit my emerging traction plan.  

 

Unscientific I know but equally this forum is decidedly unrepresentative of the wider modelling world and probably explains why these coaches are selling so well helped by an aggressive pricing policy.  Nothing to do with a "lack of taste", but more to do with pragmatism and looking at the bigger picture - and for me, they are better than the Lima, Hornby and Joueff alternatives with only the light grey looking odd to me.

[tractor_37260]

It's also the case that for every one member of this forum there are probably at least half a dozen other modellers who know nothing of this site, or for that matter any other forum.  In my personal "modelling circle of friends" only two out of about a dozen or so have any presence here or on any online modelling sites.  Seven of the "circle" will potentially be interested in these models as they fit in with their primary modelling tastes.  Five of them are probably completely unaware of Greygate, and one of us who lurk around here has bought one anyway and may or may not weather it accordingly despite being aware of the colour issue.

 

Leaving me undecided, but not because of the colour, just whether they fit my emerging traction plan.  

 

Unscientific I know but equally this forum is decidedly unrepresentative of the wider modelling world and probably explains why these coaches are selling so well helped by an aggressive pricing policy.  Nothing to do with a "lack of taste", but more to do with pragmatism and looking at the bigger picture - and for me, they are better than the Lima, Hornby and Joueff alternatives with only the light grey looking odd to me.

 

These coaches only sold because there is NO RTR correctly liveried alternative to purchase, if there had been, it would have been a completely different outcome.... !

[frobisher]

These coaches only sold because there is NO RTR correctly liveried alternative to purchase, if there had been, it would have been a completely different outcome.... !

I'm not sure you can definitively say that. What if the, correctly liveried alternatives were Bachmann's to the standard (and price) of their MK2f's? I'd bet that the outcome would be pretty similar, but the Bachmann sales would be more than healthy.

Edited January 15, 2019 by frobisher

[phil-b259]

These coaches only sold because there is NO RTR correctly liveried alternative to purchase, if there had been, it would have been a completely different outcome.... !

 

Quite possibly.... BUT such sentiments are entirely academic and make zero difference to the reality of the situation.

 

You can argue all you like Oxford got it wrong, but quite frankly some of us are fed up of hearing that post after post. Its not going to change anything however many times it is said.

 

The relatively high spec nature of Oxfords Mk3s mean that no other manufacturer is going to enter the market for the foreseeable future (unless they are trying to offer very basic 'railroad or topic notch Rapido style versions)

[Matt]

The fact that there are so many different interpretations of this colour does make me wonder... I seem to recall that years back Hornby argued until blue in the face that they had used the correct spec for their executive grey coaches but the modelling community didn't agree (most agreed it was too yellow) - at the time the suggestion was that colour doesn't scale well and that using the technically correct colour might not work on models.  Maybe there is something in the suggestion that there were errors / changes in paint specs somewhere along the way??

 

Mine arrived today and once kids are in bed the plan is to get them out and put them alongside my Lima examples, my Hornby examples, my Bachmann examples and also some replica Scotrail BGs for comparison.  I also suspect that lighting might make a difference to how big the difference is... will report back

[Matt]

OK so was hoping to get some nice photos and post them here but my tablet device thingy has decided to crash every time I take a photo - hmm not the best £1200 I've ever invested...

 

Anyway i'll try describe for now and then post photos from my phone on which I can't type for toffee.

 

Lima vs Oxford: The Oxford grey is definitely colder but the difference isn't perhaps as much as I thought it would be

 

Bachmann vs Oxford: The Bachmann grey is definitely significantly warmer.  I would perhaps say that the Lima is 50% between Bachs and Oxfords interpretation

 

Replica vs Oxford: Replicas colour is slightly brighter and warmer than Oxfords but brighter and less mushroomy than either Lima or Bach

 

Hornby vs Oxford: Out by a country mile.  Hornby looks yellow beside Oxford (or indeed any of the others)

 

Vitrains (on 37/4) vs Oxford: Definitely warmer, similar to Bach although i'd say the Bach shade is slightly more mushroomy

 

Dapol vs Oxford (old Mk2d): looks like a mushroom soup

 

Kit built DBSO sprayed in Railmatch Exec grey: yellower than Bachmann but I have a feeling that the varnish used has yellowed over the years

 

 

Oxford's darker grey doesn't jar for me being similar to Lima's shade but slightly blacker than Bachs.

 

Overall I am not sure TBH - they don't match that is for sure and generally I have in my head that the Lima colour is the correct reference colour - as such I would say that Bach's interpretation is as far different from Lima's as Oxford's is in the other direction

 

I'm not convinced who is wrong now... both Hornby and Oxford have claimed to be right but are far different and the rest are in between.  The only ones that look really bad to me are the Hornby and (to a lesser extent the Dapol one) and the one that looks most right to me based on how I remember them and how they appear in photos (which may have changed colour over time): Vitrains!

 

Everyone will have an opinion I'm sure but I think I can live with the Oxford colours - having seen in the flesh now I really think the silver framing works and looks so much better than the overthick of Lima / Hornby versions.

 

Photos to follow...

 

M

[Matt]

Ok anyone familiar with my photography on here will know I always post upside down...hopefully as we are only talking colour this isn’t such a problem!

 

First up Lima vs Oxford

 

Oxford vs Bachmann

 

Oxford vs Replica BG

 

Bachmann vs Lima

 

Bachmann vs Hornby

 

Bachmann vs Vitrains

 

Bachmann vs Dapol

 

Bachmann vs sprayed railmatch but yellowed varnish?

[Matt]

And lastly a line up of part of the new push pull set showing Roco NEM couplers nicely closing the gaps between carriages

Edited January 16, 2019 by Matt

[tractor_37260]

And lastly a line up of part of the new push pull set showing Roco NEM couplers nicely closing the gaps between carriagesimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

 

Interesting pics, thanks for posting - the difference in the colours speak for themselves - surprising just how well the Lima coach matches the DBSO............

 

I found that although my B/Grey Ox Rail MK3A's coupled very nicely together using the Roco couplings, a MK2F wouldn't couple to a MK3A its thicker gangway appeared to stop it, but as you appear to have managed it., I'll need to have another look at that.........?

Edited January 15, 2019 by tractor_37260

[Matt]

It won’t couple on the level but can be made to engage by lifting both coach ends off the track and fine once coupled up. This will work fine for fixed rake but not if you plan to shunt them. I seem to recall is similar with my mk1 rake with Hornby similar but longer coupler. Alt for the mk2 f

Would be to go the Hornby route but gap will be larger/ M

[newbryford]

God forbid when they get the shade of yellow wrong on the NMT coaches......

 

Cheers,

Mic,

[lyneux]

Or Dapols’s ARC mustard on the forthcoming 59!

Edited January 15, 2019 by lyneux

[frobisher]

The relatively high spec nature of Oxfords Mk3s mean that no other manufacturer is going to enter the market for the foreseeable future (unless they are trying to offer very basic 'railroad or topic notch Rapido style versions)

The announced Hornby "Sliding Door" vehicles are in "cat amongst the pigeons" territory I think, and we'll have to see what they actually turn out to be but they're priced head-to-head with the Oxford ones (if not actually competing directly) and look to be to at least a similar specification. There's some obvious next steps for Hornby down the line of course, notably if they can put these new underframes under the existing MK3 range bodies.

[royaloak]

Most interesting, well IF and when a re-run is done, SURELY they can revise the livery colours and get them correct this time, and if not why not ? 

Um, they sold the initial release within days/weeks, why oh why would they change the spec except maybe the numbers, if it aint broke (and as they sold out they cant be broke can they) dont 'fix' it.