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The Oak Hill Branch - LBSCR / SECR 1905ish - New layout starts on page 129


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Having had a marginally better week this week, I will be back with the livestream tomorrow!! It won't feature anything complicated and is planned to be a bit of painting, maybe some ballasting, and possibly even a bit of shunting if we get a chance!! So I look forward to seeing you all there tomorrow night at 9pm (BST). I don't have a review to share with you this week, but I will still be back with the livestream link tomorrow!!

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Gary

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It's livestream day!! and tonight we are back following our week off with some more scenic work, we will be painting the buildings, maybe even getting some ballast down, and perhaps there will be a bit of shunting as well!!

 

See you there tonight at 9pm (BST)

 

 

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It's time for another one of those traditional RMWeb posts, and not just some YouTube promo!! (I know, I'm shocked as well)

 

Today, much like a Phoenix, rising from the ashes, the baseboards for Oak Hill 2 began to appear in my living room!!

 

It was initially just a couple of small bits balanced on the old layouts legs (note, these legs will not be being used on the new layout):

710815535_2021-09-2015_33_36.jpg.782124e54a0ffbf3db8beac7e4a2ef2e.jpg

 

and after a bit more cutting I realised I needed to actually buy some wood for the beam across the front, so after a trip to Wickes I had one rather long beam to run the full length of the new layout:

1297739059_2021-09-2017_34_01.jpg.3322a0d683066a25c5d5c0f960cfdbad.jpg

 

and with a few more cuts, and a couple of screws the first parts of the layouts structure has been built, which is all I shall get done tonight, but I expect to have the baseboards done by the end of the week:

834208141_2021-09-2019_24_22.jpg.f27d1ff98cb4c0cc33f7e9ef29b921c0.jpg

 

and well, then it seemed like time fore the first train on Oak Hill 2! and I couldn't think of a better one than this one!

2054389467_2021-09-2019_01_44.jpg.d9e36c2ef1c74ae5f07ba73b60faa5ce.jpg

 

and with that, Oak Hill lives again!! It's gonna be a while before trains run for real because of wanting a Bullhead slip, but it's something!

 

Thanks for looking, hope you enjoyed,

 

Gary

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Another couple of afternoons progress, and today Oak Hill 2 (well it's structure anyway) stood on it's own legs for the first time (and I suppose the last time as well since it's all screwed together, and screwed to the wall, so it's not like it's coming down again)

1641945249_2021-09-2220_15_32.jpg.7214021d4b5c5c7197632a5e3c589770.jpg

 

and with that done, it felt only appropriate to stick a bit of MDF on top, and get the posh new station building out, so even though we are 125 pages into this thread, I would like to say, Welcome to Oak Hill!!

1588305034_2021-09-2223_15_50.jpg.6d2d2eb024fef3ef5654fbb15881d20d.jpg

 

For those that have forgotten, since it was a while ago, this is the current version of the trackplan, although it will need some tweaking as it was planned that I would be scratch building the station building, so half of it could be missing, but there is no way I am taking a razor saw to this beautiful Bachmann building to make it fit the plan!!

1920563645_OakHillMk2v9.PNG.c585972b5a2ab041237a328094bcbb05.PNG

 

Oh, and I'm sure James will be happy that the old border is well and truly gone from my living room, so it can't sneak into any pictures before I get a backscene up! :jester: (It did feel good ripping it all off and repainting the room though)

 

Thanks for looking, hope you enjoyed,

 

Gary

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Before heading off to the shop this morning I have been playing with the trackplan and trying to get the full Bachmann station building to fit, I was going to drop the goods shed down to a lock up like the old layout, but @Skinnylinny suggested a half relief shed at the front with interior modelled, and I rather like the idea. I'm also thinking of cutting down the rearmost goods yard road to make a bit more space, (and ideally drop the 3 way point).

 

36143607_OakHillMk2V10.JPG.657caa8c5f83365246ded699a388efcc.JPG

 

I'd love some feedback from the great minds of RMWeb before I print it off later and make the top to the baseboards.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Gary

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1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

Before heading off to the shop this morning I have been playing with the trackplan and trying to get the full Bachmann station building to fit, I was going to drop the goods shed down to a lock up like the old layout, but @Skinnylinny suggested a half relief shed at the front with interior modelled, and I rather like the idea. I'm also thinking of cutting down the rearmost goods yard road to make a bit more space, (and ideally drop the 3 way point).

 

36143607_OakHillMk2V10.JPG.657caa8c5f83365246ded699a388efcc.JPG

 

I'd love some feedback from the great minds of RMWeb before I print it off later and make the top to the baseboards.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Gary

 

Gary,

I never think half relief buildings at the back really work.  (Yes they are essential, and look fine from the front, but at any other angle they look exactly like what they are, half relief buildings.)  Now, a half relief building at the front is just pure genius.  It should work really well.  

 

I would keep the extra goods road to add to the flexibility, unless of course you want to make shunting difficult, and some stations were difficult.  As for the three way point, did it give problems before?  If not keep it.  Could you have two two way points?

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Chris,

 

Thanks for the feedback, I am hoping when I have the plan in full size I can tweak it somewhat to get a bit more interior on the goods shed, it's an idea I have wanted to try for a long time (I did sugest it for some houses on the club layout some years ago, but got overruled), but I didn't think of it for the goods shed until Linny suggested it, when really I think it is the building that will work best for that sort of idea. The stables should be quite good like that as well, I'd ideally like to use the stables from the old layout, which already have a basic interior, but we shall have to see if I can cut it down successfully!

 

As for the goods yard, I wasn't thinking of doing away with the siding altogether, just reducing it in length to give more space for "stuff" in the yard, as for the 3-way, I am thinking of replacing it with 2 sets of points, mainly because I want to use Peco's Bullhead track, which the slip already makes awkward enough, but they haven't even announced a 3-way point yet, never mind released it.

 

Gary

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Like the new plan very much.  The half-relief goods shed is a great way to make virtue out of necessity and I do think a goods shed lends itself particularly well to such treatment. 

 

I would ask how you intend to shunt the yard - I'm not saying you can't or that there is any problem, it's just that I'm finding the question a handy sort of test of any track plan. 

 

The three sidings rear right.  I infer from the fencing that these are private sidings, so, industry. Which? A good source of traffic and shunting puzzles. That is probably the best use for the trackage here.  However, as I don't see myself as much of a shunter, to me they look like prime candidates for carriage sidings, even if I had to invent a nearby seaside resort or race course to justify stabling through stock there!

 

 

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Turning to The Railway Clearing House Handbook of Railway Stations (1904 edition, David & Charles reprint, 1970), entry for Oak Hill, Sussex, LB&SC:

  • Goods Station - check
  • Passenger and Parcels Station - check
  • Furniture Vans, Carriages, Portable Engines, and Machines on Wheels - query
  • Live Stock - check
  • Horse Boxes and Prize Cattle Vans - query, possibly handled at the passenger platform?
  • Carriages by Passenger Train - query
  • Crane Power - there is presumably a crane of 1 - 2 tons capacity in the goods shed; is there any call for an oudoor crane, say 5 tons capacity?

Looking through that as a check list, the facility that appears to be missing is an end-loading dock. 

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16 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Like the new plan very much.  The half-relief goods shed is a great way to make virtue out of necessity and I do think a goods shed lends itself particularly well to such treatment. 

 

I would ask how you intend to shunt the yard - I'm not saying you can't or that there is any problem, it's just that I'm finding the question a handy sort of test of any track plan. 

 

The three sidings rear right.  I infer from the fencing that these are private sidings, so, industry. Which? A good source of traffic and shunting puzzles. That is probably the best use for the trackage here.  However, as I don't see myself as much of a shunter, to me they look like prime candidates for carriage sidings, even if I had to invent a nearby seaside resort or race course to justify stabling through stock there!

 

 

 

James,

 

Thanks for the feedback, and a totaly reasonable question, I hadn't pictured myself as much of a shunter until having to do it for a show, and now I have a layout dedicated to it, which I find myself playing with quite often!!

 

The 3 sidings on the right, are the fiddle yard, I should have labeled that on the plan, I managed to label almost everything else, what looks like a fence is the original planned line of the backscene, although that may change slightly, the big grey box is where my radiator is, and ideally I want to not board over the top of this as much as possible.

 

As for operation, now you see it is only the 3 sidings on the left, I had invisioned using the shed road as a headshunt, although with the slip this still blocks use of the loop, but I feel is a better solution than using the mainline itself.

 

Any futher thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

Gary

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3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Turning to The Railway Clearing House Handbook of Railway Stations (1904 edition, David & Charles reprint, 1970), entry for Oak Hill, Sussex, LB&SC:

  • Goods Station - check
  • Passenger and Parcels Station - check
  • Furniture Vans, Carriages, Portable Engines, and Machines on Wheels - query
  • Live Stock - check
  • Horse Boxes and Prize Cattle Vans - query, possibly handled at the passenger platform?
  • Carriages by Passenger Train - query
  • Crane Power - there is presumably a crane of 1 - 2 tons capacity in the goods shed; is there any call for an oudoor crane, say 5 tons capacity?

Looking through that as a check list, the facility that appears to be missing is an end-loading dock. 

 

Stephen,

 

I had invisoned horseboxes and the like to be dealt with on the passenger platform, with a gate in the fence to the left of the station building to allow this.

 

End loading dock, yes good idea, I need one of those. If I do cut down the legth of the upper most goods siding would that be a good place to put one? I'm glad I otherwise meet your approval.

 

A 5 ton crane between the 2 front sidings seems to make sense to me, would you agree?

 

Gary

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10 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

End loading dock, yes good idea, I need one of those. If I do cut down the legth of the upper most goods siding would that be a good place to put one? 

 

Could you use the dead-end section of the run-round? Could the cattle dock go there too, freeing up more siding space in the goods yard for ordinary traffic, including coal - need cartage=way for the coal merchants to get their carts alongside the coal wagons.

 

I think that the way goods traffic would be worked in "reality" is that a goods train would arrive in the passenger platform line, the engine would run round, shunt wagons to their appropriate sidings, shunting out wagons for departure as necessary, putting the brake van up against the buffer stops as soon as occasion permitted and building up the outgoing goods train against it, eventually departing from the platform line. All shunting would be done on the main line. All this in the long mid-afternoon interval between passenger trains.

 

But reality is immediately compromised by the presence of the two-road engine shed which as we all know is unlikely, but desirable for perfectly legitimate reasons. We're up against the inevitable compromises of a model railway in a small space. Single line rural branches in the Edwardian era generally had a sparse and uninteresting train service making for a dull model, while occupying large amounts of space (as has been observed elsewhere recently). Because the modeller often has only a small enough space for a simple terminus but wants a railway that is interesting operationally, departures from reality are essential; the model can at best be representative only. The trick is to achieve the illusion of reality. No model railway does that better than Peter Denny's Buckingham.

 

Apologies for that little homily - teaching you to suck eggs, I know!

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25 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Could you use the dead-end section of the run-round? Could the cattle dock go there too, freeing up more siding space in the goods yard for ordinary traffic, including coal - need cartage=way for the coal merchants to get their carts alongside the coal wagons.

 

Like this? The grey box being the end loading dock.

 

36143607_OakHillMk2V10.jpg.0145776f107443e8987b8b01f4579afe.jpg

 

I'll have a proper play once I am home and have access to AnyRail again, for now it's quick eidts in MS Paint on the shops laptop.

 

Gary

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2 hours ago, BlueLightning said:

Like this? The grey box being the end loading dock.

 

I would have one L-shaped platform (at goods platform height - 3'6" above rail? - subject to cross-checking against typical LB&SC practice) combining end loading, cattle, and also as a general loading bank. It could also then serve as a horsebox / prize cattle dock.

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If there is room to, perhaps move the cattle dock to the other side of the spur (between it and the platform road).

 

Gains room to extend a siding, too.

 

1223831756_36143607_OakHillMk2V10.jpg.0145776f107443e8987b8b01f4579afe-Copy.jpg.48c19448eca9becda993f171d7ecb5cf.jpg

 

Isn't there a LB&SC example of a tall, solid fence behind a cattle dock to shield it from substantive passengers on the platform? 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
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Further thought (all subject to checking against actual LB&SC practice): with the cattle dock / loading bank alongside the dead-end of the run-round, have a short siding off the run-round - just one OCT/CCT-length - off the run round with the end unloading onto the end of the bank. I think that would be more likely and avoid the problem of anything for unloading being blocked in or out by standing cattle wagons. To make room for this, replace the three-way by a simple point and have just one mileage siding. This siding could run alongside the goods shed, if there's enough cartage way between the cattle dock / loading bank and the siding.

 

Or put the whole caboodle of cattle dock and end loading dock on the existing short sidings, which is what I think James means; though where is the mileage siding then?

 

Apologies if we've already been there but what LB&SC branch line termini do you have as points of reference? Edit: I looked. hardly any and those there are are highly untypical of the BLT genre - Epsom Downs, Brighton Kemp Town. LB&SC branch lines seem mostly to be fillers between main lines, running from junction to junction. So that sort of gives you carte blanche, within the constraints of the "generally typical".

Edited by Compound2632
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Is something like this what we mean? I have added some extra cattle dock length and will base it on the ones from Hailsham, or would it be better to keep them the same length as I had before?

 

I have also added a 5T crane to the goods yard, and updated some of the items on the layout with the correct items which have been made by other users of AnyRail.

 

Lastly I have adjusted the backscene to how I think it will be on the layout, which I think will flow better on the layout. I might also shorten the platform as it is rather close to the signal box steps (Wills SS48 Saxby & Farmer timber signal box for those wondering)

 

Gary

 

1719059366_OakHillMk2V11.JPG.b99ff5e11d6b03ca9faa67fc5e7d1716.JPG

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13 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

Is something like this what we mean? I have added some extra cattle dock length and will base it on the ones from Hailsham, or would it be better to keep them the same length as I had before?

 

That's what I had in mind in my first post. Using the National Library of Scotland's handy time-machine, I had a quick look at Hailsham in 1898 - which has this arrangement, though behind the passenger platform. Is there any information on the dimensions of LB&SCR cattle pens? They might have been built before the "long" cattle wagon became universal. I think several pens must be the right provision for such an agricultural area.

 

What I do continue to feel is that there's not enough open siding space - look at Hailsham again - how is coal handled? After all, that's the principal incoming traffic. (To say nothing of loco coal.)

Edited by Compound2632
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Hailsham is a rather untypical example of LBSC branch lines with rather large goods facilities, and in the example of Hailsham, the coal merchants had staithes along what is the left hand siding in that map (one of few stations to have them placed along the track like modellers tend to do)

 

I had originally envisioned the coal being dealt with on the lowest siding on the Oak Hill plan, obviously this needs rethinking now that the goods shed has moved there, perhaps if I moved the middle siding down to allow access to allow better access to the top siding coal could be dealt with there? This would then need the 5T crane moving elsewhere as well. That is unless I take a leaf from Hailsham and have a kickback siding coming off the goods shed road towards the turntable with coal dealt with there?

 

As for cattle pens there is very little information available, the only "solid" thing about them is the recreated cattle pen at Horsted Keynes, which is what the one on Oak Hill 1 was based on, and is the size of the one in the plans for Oak Hill 2 so the setup above should give enough space for 2 wagons to be loaded at once.

 

EDIT: I rather like the kickback siding idea, it would add difficulty to the shunting, and require thinking, as it wouldn't be able to be used when wagons were in the shed road, and who ever said these things should be simple?

Edited by BlueLightning
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23 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

Well I need to pop out for an hour or so, but before I do, what do we think of this?

Very elegant.  Plenty of room for the coal men to mess about and do coal man things as well.

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