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The Oak Hill Branch - LBSCR / SECR 1905ish - New layout starts on page 129


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1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

 

I did indeed, for the best part of a decade I co-owned an ISP specialising in satellite and 3g/4g connections for rural locations, but also offering standard fixed lined connections.

 

Gary

 

Interesting - a shame that that has closed down.

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On 09/12/2020 at 10:36, BlueLightning said:

Capture.JPG.75d8d0c1623cc47bcd4074bc0b13c10e.JPG

 

Looking at pictures I need 8 of these for my ballast train (and 2 ballast brake vans) so it seemed like an idea place to start, and hopefully will come out well (or at least well enough to use!)

 

Gary, if that's a first attempt at getting to grips with CAD software I'm in awe, having had only a very limited brush with Solidworks myself. I hope you won't mind my offering some, I hope constructive, criticism. With no knowledge of your chosen prototype but a general knowledge of how wagons of a certain age go together, the following look improbable:

  • Dumb buffers only the same profile as the solebars (4½" or 5" thick). I would expect an extra piece of timber behind the solebar extension, the same height as the solebar, increasing the width of the buffer to 10½" - 12".
  • Iron hoop to prevent splitting of the buffer standing proud of the solebar. I would expect this to sit in a recess cut in the solebar. Remember too that it is a hoop of iron so will have rounded corners. It's probably ⅜" - ½" thick and 2½" - 3" wide.
  • Solebar washer plates for axleguard bolts/nuts - the semi-circular crown plate looks too big and the wing plate washer plates are too high up. Likely centres for the bolts are 1'6" or so for the axleguards and 3'0" for the wing plates.
  • Doorstops an unlikely shape.  I don't believe in the bulge at the bottom. How are they secured to the solebar?
  • Capping plate - ⅜" iron strip - all around the top of the sides and ends.
  • Lack of washers or washer plates on the end pillars.
  • Lack of interior ironwork. On the outside, the hinges are probably a bit more substantial in thickness than the rest of the ironwork. Probably tapering in thickness from top to bottom.
  • Side and end planks chamfered on the inside. Normally only chamfered on the outside, typically ⅜" - ½", though sometimes drop doors were chamfered on the inside.
  • Chamfer on drop door side planks carried round end. Unusual.
  • Chamfer at top edge of headstock. Unusual.
  • Narrow angle bracket in corner of buffer and headstock - expect an L-shaped piece of iron, secured by two bolts aligned horizontally on each angle, only 2½" - 3" wide in vertical direction.

Also, the "bolt heads" need to be a good bit beefier. These are the ends of bolts with nuts screwed on and a washer, if there isn't already an iron plate. The "bolts" are in several cases long pieces of iron rod bracing the wooden frame of the wagon together, as much as 1" diameter (longitundinals that terminate at the drawbar plate) or ¾" (transverse that terminate through the curb rail or solebar).

 

I dare say you can produce a photo showing me wrong on some of these points! (Direct me to the page in Southern Wagons...)

 

The beauty of CAD / 3D printing is that all these details can be got right. On is only limited by the resolution of the printer and one's interpretation of the available drawings and photos.

Edited by Compound2632
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Stephen,

 

Thank you for the feedback, it is much appreciated, and yes this is my first "proper" attempt to get my head around CAD, after some very brief failed attempts at Blender many years back, I am now using Fusion 360.

 

Yes I can provide a photo and drawing to show a few of your points wrong, page 61 of Southern Wagons Vol 2.

 

Quote

Dumb buffers only the same profile as the solebars (4½" or 5" thick). I would expect an extra piece of timber behind the solebar extension, the same height as the solebar, increasing the width of the buffer to 10½" - 12".

Dumb buffers. yes the would be 2 pieces of timer, and I should have a join between the 2 running across the top and bottom of the buffer, this can be seen in the drawing.

 

Quote

Iron hoop to prevent splitting of the buffer standing proud of the solebar. I would expect this to sit in a recess cut in the solebar. Remember too that it is a hoop of iron so will have rounded corners. It's probably ⅜" - ½" thick and 2½" - 3" wide.

The drawing and photo both show the iron hoop on the wagon standing slightly proud of the buffer, not as extreme as it is on the CAD, but remember this is very zoomed in, the amount it actually stands proud is 0.2mm, which I am told is as little as I should expect to reliably print, but yes I do need to round off the corners.

 

Quote

Solebar washer plates for axleguard bolts/nuts - the semi-circular crown plate looks too big and the wing plate washer plates are too high up. Likely centres for the bolts are 1'6" or so for the axleguards and 3'0" for the wing plates.

Solebar washer plate, you may be right, however it may be that Fusion is a bit rubbish at perspective when showing things in a 3/4 view, I will check the measurements again however.

 

Quote

Doorstops an unlikely shape.  I don't believe in the bulge at the bottom. How are they secured to the solebar?

The bulge in the door stops is shown in both the drawing and photo, rounder in the drawing than it is in the photo, but very much still there, it is secured by a pair of bolts, still on my to do list when the screenshot was taken, I had some issues with the software getting the solebar detail on which required intervention from Linny to fix and I didn't feel much like carrying on after we got it sorted.

 

Quote

Capping plate - ⅜" iron strip - all around the top of the sides and ends.

I shall see about how I can represent a capping plate, I think it should be doable on the printer.

 

Quote

Lack of washers or washer plates on the end pillars.

The drawings do not show a washer plate on the end pillars, and the photo is at the wrong angle to get detail, from what I can make out I think the washer plate may have covered the entire end of the pillar.

 

Quote

Lack of interior ironwork. On the outside, the hinges are probably a bit more substantial in thickness than the rest of the ironwork. Probably tapering in thickness from top to bottom.

I currently have no detail of the interior, however it is on my list to research and get right before printing.

 

Quote

Side and end planks chamfered on the inside. Normally only chamfered on the outside, typically ⅜" - ½", though sometimes drop doors were chamfered on the inside.

Chamfer on drop door side planks carried round end. Unusual.

Chamfer at top edge of headstock. Unusual.

The chamfers are there to represent the edges of the planking, and are only 0.3mm tall, these will barely show up on the print, and will only be visible as an edge to the planks

 

Quote

Narrow angle bracket in corner of buffer and headstock - expect an L-shaped piece of iron, secured by two bolts aligned horizontally on each angle, only 2½" - 3" wide in vertical direction.

There is some of this shown on the drawing looking end on, and is not visible on the drawing.

 

Quote

Also, the "bolt heads" need to be a good bit beefier. These are the ends of bolts with nuts screwed on and a washer, if there isn't already an iron plate. The "bolts" are in several cases long pieces of iron rod bracing the wooden frame of the wagon together, as much as 1" diameter (longitundinals that terminate at the drawbar plate) or ¾" (transverse that terminate through the curb rail or solebar).

The bolt heads, to me, look about right for the size shown in the photo and drawing 0.4mm across sticking out 0.2mm, however I will judge these again once a test print has happened.

 

Quote

The beauty of CAD / 3D printing is that all these details can be got right. On is only limited by the resolution of the printer and one's interpretation of the available drawings and photos.

Indeed, and I do not expect to get these all correct first time out, however the more I can get right with the help of feedback like yours the happier I will be.

 

I look forward to your reply,

 

Cheers,

 

Gary

Edited by BlueLightning
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It's Livestream day!! and tonight we will be finishing the D&S Models SE&CR 6 wheel brake van! (Well if the internet let's us)

 

We have a small amount of painting to do, and some transfers to get on, can we get it done? The only way to find out is to join us tonight at 9pm (UK)!

 

See you there!

 

Gary

 

 

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It's the weekend!! and after finishing the SE&CR brake van last weekend, we will be having a redux of our first ever livestream tomorrow, but this time with added 3D printing courtesy of @woko who has made a Stroudley brake van! I look forward to seeing you there tomorrow!

 

Check out Woko's thread here:

 

I'll be back tomorrow with the link for the livestream, in the meantime I hope enjoy the review of last weeks Let's Build!

 

Gary

 

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It's the day of the Let's Build! Christmas Special!! Join us tonight at 9pm (UK) as we have a redux of our first ever livestream project! now with 100% more 3D printing! As we work on the 3D printed Stroudley goods brake by @woko

 

See you there!

 

Gary

 

 

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On 13/12/2020 at 13:59, BlueLightning said:

Stephen,

 

Thank you for the feedback, it is much appreciated, and yes this is my first "proper" attempt to get my head around CAD, after some very brief failed attempts at Blender many years back, I am now using Fusion 360.

 

Yes I can provide a photo and drawing to show a few of your points wrong, page 61 of Southern Wagons Vol 2.

 

Dumb buffers. yes the would be 2 pieces of timer, and I should have a join between the 2 running across the top and bottom of the buffer, this can be seen in the drawing.

 

The drawing and photo both show the iron hoop on the wagon standing slightly proud of the buffer, not as extreme as it is on the CAD, but remember this is very zoomed in, the amount it actually stands proud is 0.2mm, which I am told is as little as I should expect to reliably print, but yes I do need to round off the corners.

 

Solebar washer plate, you may be right, however it may be that Fusion is a bit rubbish at perspective when showing things in a 3/4 view, I will check the measurements again however.

 

The bulge in the door stops is shown in both the drawing and photo, rounder in the drawing than it is in the photo, but very much still there, it is secured by a pair of bolts, still on my to do list when the screenshot was taken, I had some issues with the software getting the solebar detail on which required intervention from Linny to fix and I didn't feel much like carrying on after we got it sorted.

 

I shall see about how I can represent a capping plate, I think it should be doable on the printer.

 

The drawings do not show a washer plate on the end pillars, and the photo is at the wrong angle to get detail, from what I can make out I think the washer plate may have covered the entire end of the pillar.

 

I currently have no detail of the interior, however it is on my list to research and get right before printing.

 

The chamfers are there to represent the edges of the planking, and are only 0.3mm tall, these will barely show up on the print, and will only be visible as an edge to the planks

 

There is some of this shown on the drawing looking end on, and is not visible on the drawing.

 

The bolt heads, to me, look about right for the size shown in the photo and drawing 0.4mm across sticking out 0.2mm, however I will judge these again once a test print has happened.

 

Indeed, and I do not expect to get these all correct first time out, however the more I can get right with the help of feedback like yours the happier I will be.

 

I look forward to your reply,

 

Cheers,

 

Gary

 

 Sorry to take a while to get back to you. Now I'm looking at Bixley et al., Southern Wagons Vol. 2 p. 61, Plate 107 and Fig. 31.

 

My concern about the dumb buffer is that it should be square or nearly so in profile. I do not think the join between the solebar and the additional piece would be visible on a wagon in reasonably good condition. Looking closely at the iron hoop, I think it is in a rebate making it flush or nearly so with the solebar on the bottom and sides but stands proud on the top. The angle iron on the inside face of the buffer and the headstock is consistent with the position of the bolts on the solebar - is there any additional photographic evidence for this? (Indeed, where did the data for the drawing come from?) Note the quite prominent washers for these bolts.

 

The end pillars are drawn to conform to typical Brighton practice - Plate 25 gives a good view. The washers aren't so prominent. I'd noticed from my Open A builds that the bolts are flush on the inside and that there is no additional ironwork - carriage bolts.

 

On the chunky doorstops, I note the flat on the front - by design or by wear from repeated use?

 

The wagon in Plate 107 is quite elderly and the wear on the upper edge of the curb rail and the bottom of the lower side plank is very evident. If you're modelling it a quarter of a century earlier, there would be much less sign of wear - compare the 1910 photo of 2-plank wagons, Plate 105. 

 

As to the interior, what's a ballast wagon for? Ballast is one of the most simple loads to model!

 

Dinky little axlebox napkins. Brighton men were evidently less messy ballasters than their counterparts on the North Western or Midland!

 

As you say, I'm sure the proof of the detail will be in the test printing.

 

Looking forward to further progress!

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Thanks for your thoughts Stephen, again they are very much appreciated.

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

My concern about the dumb buffer is that it should be square or nearly so in profile. I do not think the join between the solebar and the additional piece would be visible on a wagon in reasonably good condition.

 

The current design does have the buffer as nearly square, with it only being 1mm taller than it is wide, however if you feel this would be square in common practice, then without evidence otherwise I shall change it and make it square, although I am wondering if what can be seen of the buffers in plate 105 shows them being narrower than they are tall?

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

Looking closely at the iron hoop, I think it is in a rebate making it flush or nearly so with the solebar on the bottom and sides but stands proud on the top.

 

I see what you mean, and shall change this so it is only raised above the buffer, and not on the sides, I shall put some lines around the buffer to represent it.

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

The angle iron on the inside face of the buffer and the headstock is consistent with the position of the bolts on the solebar - is there any additional photographic evidence for this? (Indeed, where did the data for the drawing come from?) Note the quite prominent washers for these bolts.

 

I'm not sure of any further evidence of this plate, again if it is more likely to be separate pieces of angle iron for each bolt then I shall edit accordingly.

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The end pillars are drawn to conform to typical Brighton practice - Plate 25 gives a good view. The washers aren't so prominent. I'd noticed from my Open A builds that the bolts are flush on the inside and that there is no additional ironwork - carriage bolts.

 

Just had a look, and plate 27 on the next page shows the washers being more prominent, I have been thinking about going back and redoing the bolts to be more "bolty" so I shall try and make the washers show as well when I do this (It's less effort than it seems most of the bolts are clones of each other and will all change when I change one)

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

On the chunky doorstops, I note the flat on the front - by design or by wear from repeated use?

 

I was assuming the flat is because of repeated use, if you look at plate 108 there is a newer design wagon freshly out shopped that has rounded doorstops

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The wagon in Plate 107 is quite elderly and the wear on the upper edge of the curb rail and the bottom of the lower side plank is very evident. If you're modelling it a quarter of a century earlier, there would be much less sign of wear - compare the 1910 photo of 2-plank wagons, Plate 105.

 

These will look a lot less prominent on the print than it does in the CAD

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

As to the interior, what's a ballast wagon for? Ballast is one of the most simple loads to model!

 

This is true, especially when you live 10 miles from the ballast pit, and there is suitably small pieces available.

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Dinky little axlebox napkins. Brighton men were evidently less messy ballasters than their counterparts on the North Western or Midland!

 

I was surprised by that as well, still not 100% sure how I am going to model them.

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

As you say, I'm sure the proof of the detail will be in the test printing.

 

Indeed, and it still won't be too late to change

 

Gary

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Well Christmas may be over, but that doesn't mean our Christmas special is!! Join us tomorrow when we will finish @woko's 3D printed Stroudley brake van!!

 

I'll be back tomorrow with the link, in the meantime you can catch up with the progress we made last weekend with the review below!!

 

Hope you enjoy,

 

Gary

 

 

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It's the weekend again! and this weekend we will be welcoming the new year, by finishing some old projects!! Join us at 9pm (UK) tomorrow to see what we manage!

 

I'll be back with the link tomorrow, in the meantime, I'll leave you with the review of last weeks livestream where we finished the 3D Printed LBSC brake van!

 

 

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Well I currently have no internet, the whole town is down, and it's not expected back until after 9pm, so I guess no livestream tonight. I've got part 2 of the year in review planned for Tuesday, so at least there is something coming out this week

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1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

Well I currently have no internet, the whole town is down, and it's not expected back until after 9pm, so I guess no livestream tonight. I've got part 2 of the year in review planned for Tuesday, so at least there is something coming out this week

 

This is unfortunate. May your internet recover speedily.

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Well it took until 11:30pm for my internet to come back last Sunday! so there really was n chance of a livestream. However it has been going fine ever since, so let's have another go!

 

Tomorrow night we will be finishing off some outstanding projects! Join us at 9pm (UK) for some modelling goodness!

 

I'll be back tomorrow with the link, however in the meantime I'll leave you with my 2020 year in review videos I hope to do some pictures for the thread soon, but I currently don't have time to write the post)

 

The first one is quite long, so make sure you have a nice beverage to watch it with! (Turns out I was busier last year than I realised!)

 

 

 

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It's the weekend!! and we are starting our first big project of 2021!! Join us at 9pm (UK) tomorrow night as we start work on the SE&CR Invalid Saloon from Branchlines!! THis will also be the first etched coach kit on the channel! So don't miss it!!

 

I'll be back with the link tomorrow! In the meantime please enjoy the review of last weekends livestream!

 

Gary

 

 

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I didn't forget to post the link because I have had a manic day, that was you!! Well OK, maybe it was me, but hopefully no one will notice!

 

Join us in just over an hour at 9pm (UK) as we start on our next big project, the SE&CR Invalid Saloon from Branchlines!!

 

See you there,

 

Gary

 

 

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