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Hornby at London Toy Fair


Andy Y
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I would like to think Hornby Hobbies are onto a winner if they target sets at younger children though the Junior and Lima sets in the photos. Good to see Jouef and Lima branded versions are these names will be more familiar to potential (parent) purchasers.

 

But I'm confused by the set top right in MGR Hooper's second photo. The box image looks like a sort of Italian single cab E.464 loco for push-pull regional trains, but with loco hauled UIC-X coaches in a version if the XPMR livery that I believe is now only seen on the seating coaches in overnight sleeper trains.

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I would like to think Hornby Hobbies are onto a winner if they target sets at younger children though the Junior and Lima sets in the photos. Good to see Jouef and Lima branded versions are these names will be more familiar to potential (parent) purchasers.

 

But I'm confused by the set top right in MGR Hooper's second photo. The box image looks like a sort of Italian single cab E.464 loco for push-pull regional trains, but with loco hauled UIC-X coaches in a version if the XPMR livery that I believe is now only seen on the seating coaches in overnight sleeper trains.

There's a nice selection of inexpensive "continental image" stock there that might get the creative juices flowing if they were made generally available here. Hornby take notice!

 

The E464 set is probably the Italian version of one of Hornbys starter sets, along the lines of the current West Coast Highlander/Caledonian Belle/GWR Passenger Freight offerings!

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The E464 set is probably the Italian version of one of Hornbys starter sets, along the lines of the current West Coast Highlander/Caledonian Belle/GWR Passenger Freight offerings!

That's what I thought but the "E464" doesn't look much like the real thing and is not an existing Lima/Rivarossi item so why not at least get it to look right. With over 700 of the things it's a good choice but ACME and Vitrains already make a pretty good E464s so how well any set will sell to a discerning parent if something doesn't look right I don't know.

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But what struck me is what do you do when you want put your train set away? If you don't have a box to put the items back into then they could end up being damaged.

 

Put away? Sorry, you've lost me there ...

 

(More seriously - if I'm looking at the same models - these are kids' toys, they look like they have no/few additional parts so boxes aren't needed. They'll be used just like every other push along vehicle and toy that I've seen in friends' houses: played with, then cleared away - if at all - into a crate until the next play. They'll be durable enough to withstand bumping and bashes in the crate, and after a while it won't matter anyway. Thinking of that - my dad's Triang models and Dinky toys don't have boxes, and I guess didn't have them since about 1958.)

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That's what I thought but the "E464" doesn't look much like the real thing and is not an existing Lima/Rivarossi item so why not at least get it to look right. With over 700 of the things it's a good choice but ACME and Vitrains already make a pretty good E464s so how well any set will sell to a discerning parent if something doesn't look right I don't know.

I doubt if many of the parents this is aimed at are even aware of the existence of ACME and ViTrains.

 

J.

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This is a strong response by the Hornby International ranges to similar junior and low price "railroader" type products entering the market here in Europe from both Roco and Marklin. They have decided to compete on price with Hornby Int, who have been wildly successful in re-gaining market share with Lima, Electrotren, Jouef and Lima since being taken over, re-launched and progressively re-vamped, at very competitive prices albeit often at the less detailed end. I can see Hornby winning this easily, as one product can cover most of Europe with just a bit of rebranding and different transfers. Hornby have the economy of scale, continuity of supply (these days anyway) and retailer network that the others do not - the others are brave to take on Hornby in this sector.

 

It is a chest-puffing experience to see so many more of Hornby's products (under their domestic brands, plus Airfix and Humbrol) on the shelves here (France), in Belgium, Holland, Spain and in Italy, compared to just five years ago. A busy little model shop in Genoa that I frequent, used to have almost entirely Fleischmann, Roco and Marklin on its shelves. When I went last year, you could hardly see them for Rivarossi and Lima! (and Airfix and Humbrol to some extent). I guess the main battle ground will be in the much larger market of Germany (and Austria maybe), but I don't go there much so others would need to comment on how much impact HI has there.

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Put away? Sorry, you've lost me there ...

 

(More seriously - if I'm looking at the same models - these are kids' toys, they look like they have no/few additional parts so boxes aren't needed. They'll be used just like every other push along vehicle and toy that I've seen in friends' houses: played with, then cleared away - if at all - into a crate until the next play. They'll be durable enough to withstand bumping and bashes in the crate, and after a while it won't matter anyway. Thinking of that - my dad's Triang models and Dinky toys don't have boxes, and I guess didn't have them since about 1958.)

 

Come to think of it, that Lima Plymouth diesel shunter is the same model as the very first loco I ever had, back in 1975. It was practically bombproof.

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But what struck me is what do you do when you want put your train set away? If you don't have a box to put the items back into then they could end up being damaged.

I don't use the boxes stock comes in daily because it's so tight it can damage the detail getting it in and out so I use stock boxes with bubble wrap and tissue to protect 6-7 vehicles in a box. It's much quicker and commonly used, I see tool boxes a lot at shows as stock boxes too.

Bachmann have been using blister packs on their TtheT range since its inception and it shows off the models well on the stand. I doubt many parents think about storing it at home when they see it in the shop ;)

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This is a strong response by the Hornby International ranges to similar junior and low price "railroader" type products entering the market here in Europe from both Roco and Marklin. They have decided to compete on price with Hornby Int, who have been wildly successful in re-gaining market share with Lima, Electrotren, Jouef and Lima since being taken over, re-launched and progressively re-vamped, at very competitive prices albeit often at the less detailed end. I can see Hornby winning this easily, as one product can cover most of Europe with just a bit of rebranding and different transfers. Hornby have the economy of scale, continuity of supply (these days anyway) and retailer network that the others do not - the others are brave to take on Hornby in this sector.

 

It is a chest-puffing experience to see so many more of Hornby's products (under their domestic brands, plus Airfix and Humbrol) on the shelves here (France), in Belgium, Holland, Spain and in Italy, compared to just five years ago. A busy little model shop in Genoa that I frequent, used to have almost entirely Fleischmann, Roco and Marklin on its shelves. When I went last year, you could hardly see them for Rivarossi and Lima! (and Airfix and Humbrol to some extent). I guess the main battle ground will be in the much larger market of Germany (and Austria maybe), but I don't go there much so others would need to comment on how much impact HI has there.

I think many forget that Hornby have several ranges of model railways and that their European operation is not just a distraction from their OO efforts but a collection of major brands in their own right. Their HO models are often very good and do seem to be competitively priced.

 

Whilst the sort of stuff in this thread may be dismissed as muck and tat by modellers I think Hornby are doing the hobby a service by trying to keep the toy segment alive and maintaining their presence in the toy and trainset market. Those markets are not what they were and the trainset market is a shadow of what it was 30 years ago however I think these ranges are still important in terms of attracting new entrants and engaging with children. Most of these products are not meant to be super detailed scale models but robust toys which will attract children, offer good play value and look like trains.

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  • 11 months later...

I wonder if any more info has been released about this, I cannot find anything online.

Funnily enough, I had a look last week to see if the "Airfix locomotive" kit had been produced. (googling for "airfix loco" doesn't get the result required!) and found that the Airfix website only listed the combustion engine and the jet engine in the Engineer section.

 

I suppose, like Hornby, the Airfix section had to withdraw a number of new models in the middle of last year due to financial constraints and some of those may appear in the fullness of time. Or not, as the case might be.

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  • 4 months later...
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The WTF award (from a modeller's perspective) must got to the Downton Abbey train set. Maybe it's a gift shop / toy shop item but I wouldn't have thought your average 5 year old was into period dramas and if he/she is I'm sure they could pick some holes in this.

 

Nice box because it doesn't show what's in it.

 

Downton Abbey 1.jpg

 

.

Did this set ever get produced in the end? I don't recall hearing much about it beyond this post.

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Did this set ever get produced in the end? I don't recall hearing much about it beyond this post.

Apart from the pictures including the contents:

 

http://68.media.tumblr.com/9b6db45da3de60d488e86aeec55e57ba/tumblr_o1zn2oFtjO1r9meixo2_1280.jpg

 

There doesn't seem to be much info on the net.

IMHO another of those tacky franchise things, probably quietly dropped as the TV series has now finished.

 

Keith

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Apart from the pictures including the contents:

 

http://68.media.tumblr.com/9b6db45da3de60d488e86aeec55e57ba/tumblr_o1zn2oFtjO1r9meixo2_1280.jpg

 

There doesn't seem to be much info on the net.

IMHO another of those tacky franchise things, probably quietly dropped as the TV series has now finished.

 

Keith

That's getting close to the flying Scotsman clock level of tat! Edited by russ p
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ooh, build your own steam locomotive engine.... so that's the engine that powers a steam locomotive?

 

 

Yes.  Pedant Alert Code Red.  The locomotive is the thing that pulls the train, but the engine, the cylinder block, pistons, connecting rod, cranks and valve gear, equivalent to the engine of a car but less enclosed and with combustion as a completely separate thing altogether, powers the locomotive.  If a steam engine is designed to go into a locomotive to power it, it is a steam locomotive engine.  As the separate entity of an engine, it is powered by pressurised steam which is supplied by the boiler, which contains water heated to pressurised steam by the firebox; the firebox, boiler, and smokebox are not part of the engine, though they are parts of the locomotive, the thing that pulls the train.  There are other forms of steam engines not designed to power locomotives, found in ships, factories, pumping mines, and so on.

 

All locomotives have engines, but not all engines are in locomotives, because bananas are not the only fruit.

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Yes.  Pedant Alert Code Red.  The locomotive is the thing that pulls the train,

Code Double Red.

Round my way there are signs adjacent to bridges that carry roads over railway lines that bear the words "Locomotives must not cross this bridge."

I say Locomotive you say Traction Engine.

Bernard

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Code Double Red.

Round my way there are signs adjacent to bridges that carry roads over railway lines that bear the words "Locomotives must not cross this bridge."

I say Locomotive you say Traction Engine.

Bernard

 

 

Those notices used to be common round my way as well, lozenge shaped Taff Vale Railway ones.  Confused the bejaysus out of me as a child; the locomotive went under the bridge, surely...

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Yes.  Pedant Alert Code Red.  The locomotive is the thing that pulls the train, but the engine, the cylinder block, pistons, connecting rod, cranks and valve gear, equivalent to the engine of a car but less enclosed and with combustion as a completely separate thing altogether, powers the locomotive.  If a steam engine is designed to go into a locomotive to power it, it is a steam locomotive engine.  As the separate entity of an engine, it is powered by pressurised steam which is supplied by the boiler, which contains water heated to pressurised steam by the firebox; the firebox, boiler, and smokebox are not part of the engine, though they are parts of the locomotive, the thing that pulls the train.  There are other forms of steam engines not designed to power locomotives, found in ships, factories, pumping mines, and so on.

 

All locomotives have engines, but not all engines are in locomotives, because bananas are not the only fruit.

And fruit flies like a banana...... 

 

I do recall that there have been academic studies on how a steam locomotive works, that came to the conclusion that the mechanism was going backward as the whole machine moved forward.  It puzzled me then, it still puzzles me now.  It reminded me of medieval debates on the terpsichorean abilities of spiritual entities on the head of a pin....

 

But that way madness lies!

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An engineman who learnt on steam locomotives spotted a note in a diesel repair book: “Engine needs reblocking.” Perhaps he had heard of cylinder blocks but went in search of a fitter for an explanation. Neither could understand the problem until light dawned. The “engine” was a locomotive and the “reblocking” was replacing the brake blocks.

 

Dimly remembered school physics defined an engine as a device for converting heat energy into mechanical energy. Locomotive is much less ambiguous than engine; perhaps that is why new speak for engine (diesel) is PM – prime mover.

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Those notices used to be common round my way as well, lozenge shaped Taff Vale Railway ones.  Confused the bejaysus out of me as a child; the locomotive went under the bridge, surely...

The more correct name for a traction engine is a 'road locomotive'.

 

Tim

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