PECO Announces Bullhead Track for OO

[No Decorum]

I would imagine as the Peco points will probably ( if thy get round to making them) fall into the Sub £20 mark and the metre lengths somewhere around the £4 mark?

Metres? Metres? I haven't seen any mention of metres. I'll report you to Nigel Flange if you're not careful!

[BG John]

Hopefully they'll produce a good range of points, and lots of people will rip up carefully dismantle their old track, and flog it on eBay, depressing prices, and providing me with cheap sources of:

1) Code 100 FB rail for handbuilt O gauge light railway track

2) Track and points to bash about to convert to O-16.5

3) Track and points to bash about to convert to O gauge to be hidden under cobbles

[Clive Mortimore]

Despite the naysayers someone appears to have been listening.

 

It feels nearly as good as Ian Hutchinson's 86th minute goal in the 1970 FA cup final, still some more to do but we are on our way to winning.

 

00 bullhead track with a (good) possibility of points to match :locomotive: :locomotive:

[Tim Dubya]

... what is the point now, or rather where are the points, in just releasing the track?

 

'cos they like to sit back and watch us all kick off.

[gismorail]

Wow this is fantastic news in fact I would put it top of the ' Well I never would have believed it' list.      

 

Yes previous comments are quite correct all the ' Peter Perfect Modellers' are going to have a field day but what the hell, it's my railway layout and I will do what I want on it. In fact I would say that at least I do some modelling in stead of moaning about ' compromise' 

 

I wonder how long this will take to release !!!!!

[Guest]

Very few people will have a stockist on their doorstep.

 

I do...

I wasn't planning on buying it for anyone else.

[martin_wynne]

You have to wonder how much British bullhead track Peco are expecting to sell in Nürnberg?

 

An odd place to make the announcement.

[Poggy1165]

If they'd done this (and the points) 25 years ago, I'd probably still be working in 00. I can't help but wonder how quick the points will be to arrive though. If it's anything like the delay on the 0 gauge small radius points, there's probably time for you all to fabricate the pointwork for Manchester (Exchange) while you're waiting. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Poggy1165

[ColHut]

Well I am chuffed. It looks more than good enough for me, and likely a fraction of the price of the high end track. I would guess it will have no impact on the consumption of the top of the range track, but will likely impact somewhat on the code 75 and code 100 users. Perhaps it will inspire people to make some new layouts.

 

Good luck to them.

 

Regards

[Arthur]

We should not get too wrapped up in the improved track 'chattering classes', us lot basically, and whether we want turnouts now or what's the point?

 

Don't forget the vast bulk of 00 steam era modellers, who have never bothered with anything other than existing PECO track, and who will turn to this new product if their retailer tells them it's 'The Great British Steam Era Track' or some suchlike. (cost caveat naturally)

 

Marketed properly it could do very well even amongst those who don't know a chair from a fishplate.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Arthur

[PatB]

How did Peco roll out their previous new ranges (Code 75 00 and Code 55 N)? Was it suddenly possible to buy plain track and a full range of pointwork or was the introduction staged? The answer might point to what's likely to happen this time.

[gr.king]

I know exactly the people who will be unable to resist picking fault and boring us to death with their own "wonderfully comprehensive" knowledge of prototypical track and dogmatic ideas on what every detail of the model should be like....

 

The fact that it is just going to look a hell of a lot better than the comedy track we've had from "Devoset" for Lord knows how many years will be completely ignored.

 

No time wasted in certain quarters I see.....

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Excellent news from PECO.

 

Should we let Larry (coachmann) know, or just keep stum?

[brigo]

You have to wonder how much British bullhead track Peco are expecting to sell in Nürnberg?

 

An odd place to make the announcement.

 

Well the Peco stand is next door to that for Weinert, the German retailer (distributor ?) for Peco track. Weinert also do the Mein Gleis scale track which uses code 75 rail. I have never actually seen it confirmed that Peco makes this track, but it is sold in 36 inch lengths and interestingly the Mein Gleis points are not hinged.

 

I notice that Peco are not exhibiting at the British Toy Fair.

 

Brian

['CHARD]

This really does appear to be excellent news.

 

I may indulge myself and become mildly excited.

[gr.king]

There were very few 9ft sleepers left in the period most users will be modelling, and H0 scale sleepers would be 2.92mm wide.

 

As far as I can tell it is 4ft-1.5in gauge track with 8ft long sleepers at 2ft-4in centres, at 4mm/ft scale:

 

 

 

We might waste a lot less space in this thread and avoid un-necessary heat if we stop worrying about the semantics and the "alleged" prototype and simply agree that regardless of whether this is taken as an HO interpretation of one variety of vintage British track, or a 4mm scale interpretation of a different variety, the net result in model form is indistinguishable to most without the aid of an accurate digital Vernier or possibly even a micrometer. The real question of whether those with vast knowledge of track dimensions are actually prepared welcome this improvement or simply wish to pick fault with it might then be more visible to all.

[gr.king]

 

 

I may indulge myself and become mildly excited.

 

Okay if you do it in private....

[DavidLong]

How did Peco roll out their previous new ranges (Code 75 00 and Code 55 N)? Was it suddenly possible to buy plain track and a full range of pointwork or was the introduction staged? The answer might point to what's likely to happen this time.

I think that 00 gauge Peco Streamline track was announced at the March 1960 Toy Fair. I don't have that edition of the Railway Modeller but there is an advertisement in the April 1960 edition but none in earlier issues. The points are in the Toy Fair report of the March 1961 issue of Railway Modeller. It says "we understand that production of this exciting item will now be commencing almost immediately, but supplies cannot be expected in the shops for some little time".

In summary there was a year between track and points.

 

David

Edited January 27, 2016 by DavidLong

[The Stationmaster]

With C&L going over to mostly the thicker sleepers, this is one direct competitor to the new Peco Bullhead track.....

 

http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=346_375_377_379&product_id=12267

Hmm - having a mind which can sometimes see more in a situation than at first meets the eye I wonder?  

 

C&L start to stock Peco - logical trading move of course but obviously they must therefore know and talk to each other as 'track suppliers'.  C&L develop (i.e. tool up) for a new range of bullhead rail track with thicker sleepers so obviously incorporate their - or a  supplier's - knowledge about tooling bullhead rail chaired track.  Then lo and behold Peco also announce what appears to be a thick sleepered code 75 bullhead rail chaired track.  Synergy? Coincidence? Peco eventually reading the market (after SMP bullhead has been available for decades)?  No doubt it will obviously not be the same tooling as C&L's - but who already has some production knowledge for such stuff.

 

Leaves me wondering

[Mike Storey]

 

 

I can obtain finescale OO flexi-track from SMP or C&L.  The thing that holds back those of us who would prefer not to have to build track-work is the lack of ready-made points. In some measure that is alleviated by Marcway.  But I am struggling to see why I would now buy a length of flexi-track from Peco instead of from Marcway/SMP when matching ready-to-lay turnouts are not provided.

 

 

 

 

Unless you are a millionaire, or have a very small layout, presumably the price. C&L want £6.50 per length (plus higher postage costs) whereas Peco currently charge £3 (less at the discount stores in bulk). Presumably there will be a premium to the Peco bullhead, but it is bound to be much cheaper. C&L appear to have a better product - primarily higher nickle content to produce a more steel-like appearance and lower corrosion, plus straight-as-a-dye out of the box, but with more work to do to make a curve. You pays yer money etc.

 

Very bold move at last from Peco. I would presume they can take the risk now that their income is so large from from N, HO and HOn track in European (where they appear to be increasingly dominant - most French and German mag articles on layout construction always include them) and in the US where they are also a big player now, largely on price and reliability. So sales of 00 bullhead in the relatively smaller UK is not likely to be abstractive for much of their existing market. This was not the case 20 years ago.

[Pacific231G]

Whereas I think it poor that Peco have not offered such a line (no pun intended) in the past, what is the point now, or rather where are the points, in just releasing the track?

 

I welcome this development; it is a step in the right direction, but I think Peco needs to re-think its view that it will leave off ready-made turnouts for future consideration.

 

I can obtain finescale OO flexi-track from SMP or C&L.  The thing that holds back those of us who would prefer not to have to build track-work is the lack of ready-made points. In some measure that is alleviated by Marcway.  But I am struggling to see why I would now buy a length of flexi-track from Peco instead of from Marcway/SMP when matching ready-to-lay turnouts are not provided.

 

Peco have taken too many years to come to the right conclusion and, as a result, have missed the boat in terms of leading with the plain track, and expecting everyone interested in such track to change to their product.  They don't have that luxury in a market that already supplies such plain track.

 

 

 

Otherwise, where's the point?

There is no question of Peco "coming to the right conclusion". As a commercial company they can only produce products they can stake their money on enough people buying, not what we think they "ought" to offer us . Also remember that starting with plain flex track is exactly what Peco did in the 1950s when they first introduced Streamline. The first Streamline points appeared about a year later 

 

On the, why not before, front I rather suspect that their long term strategy assumed that interest in steam era prototypes would fade as new generations of modellers who had known only "modern image" grew up and would have little need for BH.

 

That seems to have been more or less the pattern in other markets where the number of mass-market steam prototypes on offer really is quite small even though steam generally ended rather later. For example, under the Jouef brand Hornby now offer only five (with variations) steam loco classes.

In Britain, interest in the steam era has remained to a quite remarkable degree, perhaps because we have so much in preservation, but BH track will be mainly of interest to the British market. 

(Though not entirely and I'm looking forward to having prototypical track for my next Ouest/Etat project)

Edited January 27, 2016 by Pacific231G

[martin_wynne]

We might waste a lot less space in this thread and avoid un-necessary heat if we stop worrying about the semantics and the "alleged" prototype and simply agree that regardless of whether this is taken as an HO interpretation of one variety of vintage British track, or a 4mm scale interpretation of a different variety, the net result in model form is indistinguishable to most without the aid of an accurate digital Vernier or possibly even a micrometer. The real question of whether those with vast knowledge of track dimensions are actually prepared welcome this improvement or simply wish to pick fault with it might then be more visible to all.

 

You were the one and only contributor to introduce H0 into this topic. And in over 70 posts I can't find anyone picking a single fault or creating any heat.

 

What exactly is your point?

 

Martin.

[sandra]

I have seen bullhead rail on minor lines in France so the market for the product may not be entirely in the UK. However I do think that the prospect of points in bullhead rail is very good news for the hobby in Britain. Most pointwork into the early 1960's was still laid in bullhead rail and therefore all those steam era layouts do really need it. 

 

However I think it is sometimes forgotten that by the early 1960's the plain track on a lot of main lines was laid with jointed flat bottomed rail. I think that shortly after nationalisation, British Railways announced that they would adopt flat bottomed rail as the standard for future track relaying, at least on main lines.The problem is that Peco flat bottomed is not suitable for representing this track as the sleeper spacing is too close. Indeed as far as I am aware no one makes a representation of this type of track.

 

However I think most people will be happy to use only bullhead rail and as I said I think that this is an exciting development.

 

Sandra

[tersono]

awesome. Will definitely be using this for my next layout...

[gr.king]

As a sceptic, another question now crosses my mind. Is Peco willingly offering this new plain track with genuine willingness to also produce points if it sells well? Suppose instead they have had this design in reserve for some time, and have now seen the threat from the rumoured DCC Concepts ready made pointwork range, possibly from the admittedly pricey C & L items, and from the announced intentions of one of our fellows on this forum. Might the current move simply be aimed at spoiling the market for rivals, so as to ensure that genuine competitors to the existing Peco points never appear, or at least that their manufacturers don't survive for long enough to make any real impression, leaving Peco free to simply continue to offer the existing code 75 points?

 

Perhaps my hypothesis is simply too fanciful and no more than another unfounded conspiracy theory?