PECO Announces Bullhead Track for OO

[Ron Solly]

Not really, I think I said several hundreds of post ago, we as 00 modellers know it is wrong, but we don't care. We ended up with this ludicrous situation many years before I was born but we are happy with it. So please stop telling us that we are not modelling a real scale sized track........we know that. 

There would be a lot of "modellers" who not know  how 00 scale came about and thus don't care  about this stuffed up scale vs gauge hiccup.

 

Yes we are stuck with it but if UK outline came out in 3.5mm / foot instead of 4mm / foot, I for one would have gone that way - I doubt that modellers are happy with the 00 scale. I guess the only advantage of 00 is that rolling stock especially locos look almost the same size as  USA/Australian locos.

Yews I am aware of the attempt to have RTR UK in H0 and failed - I guess because "modellers" were too ingrained to change over.

[Pete the Elaner]

I am waiting for the points like everyone else. However not for standard gauge I am thinking of the Padarn Railway even then it will be slightly over gauge..........

 

I will get my hat and coat. However in reality yes I want the bullhead system and will live with the slight error in my eyes it will look great and I will apply Rule No. 1 Its my railway so I can do what I want......

 

Keith

No need to get your coat.

If this is better for your layout & you buy even 1 point, then great because this will be 1 step closer to making the rest of the range available.

 

I don't mind the higher cost either. If these had been available several years ago, it would have made my friend's layout a little less point-happy...so I would have had less to wire up!

[coachmann]

For British HO to look correct, one would need to fit wheels with far narrower tyres and much finer flanges than P4 use, which of course are to 4mm scale, not 3.5mm scale.

 

But all this is academic. I expect people who want to make a very big difference to the appearance of their 4mm 00 gauge layouts will welcome Peco's move.

[lapford34102]

 

What is this Templop thing all about it sounds like something women use every month

 

Not even remotely funny, get a new joke writer.......

 

Stu

[81C]

Not even remotely funny, get a new joke writer.......

 

Stu

[chris p bacon]

 

Not even remotely funny, get a new joke writer.......

 

Stu

 

 

Nope...still not funny

[bertiedog]

Some more standard code 75 track would be nice, all my usual suppliers are 'out of stock', maybe it's Peco's way of increasing demand for bullhead rail.

Probably not intentionally, but Peco have a slight reputation in the trade as a producer who proceeds in things at a more glacial rate than others, both in production and in supply to retail shops. They make a vast range, which no shop could afford to stock, and rely on special orders for a lot of items, which sounds easy, but is awkward for shops to tag on special orders, when they may be short of credit or cash, as the customer has not paid as yet. this tends to discourage shops doing the order.

 

Perhaps part of the answer is the internet, order from Peo's site and nominate a dealer to pick up the goods from, the shop receiving a cut for the service.

 

Perhaps a master site with all subscribed makers on it to make the service worthwhile, it helps both the maker, and the shops, and most of all the customer. Delivery point systems work in other trades, look at Argos and Sainbury's developing it, perhaps the model trade should move in this direction to help shops and speed up deliveries of large stock inventories.

 

Stephen.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

H0 is an daft idea, and thank goodness the pioneers had the sense to see it.

 

If you want to use an overscale wheel profile for RTR, you need to reduce the track gauge. Otherwise the wheels won't fit inside splashers, behind valve gear, inside axleboxes, behind bogie side frames.

 

All H0 models are over scale width in the running gear for this reason. For UK-outline steam locomotives the result is particularly noticeable, with steam locomotives way over scale width across the splashers...

 

HO seems to be working quite well here...

 

 

 

 

It's really quite startling to see the difference between 1/87 and 1/76.

 

Images from the lovely Longdrem and Pinkhill thread.

[Jeff Smith]

The last picture illustrates only too clearly why OO is best viewed from the side.

[Clive Mortimore]

I have seen many British H0 models. A few years ago I saw a layout based on the ScR using Lima H0 class 33s converted to class 26 and class 27 and some super detailed Playcraft Class 21s, some even running as class 29s. H0 works. I wish I could recall what the layout was called, it looked great.

[Clive Mortimore]

There would be a lot of "modellers" who not know  how 00 scale came about and thus don't care  about this stuffed up scale vs gauge hiccup.

 

Yes we are stuck with it but if UK outline came out in 3.5mm / foot instead of 4mm / foot, I for one would have gone that way - I doubt that modellers are happy with the 00 scale. I guess the only advantage of 00 is that rolling stock especially locos look almost the same size as  USA/Australian locos.

Yews I am aware of the attempt to have RTR UK in H0 and failed - I guess because "modellers" were too ingrained to change over.

Hi Ron

 

I think most modellers know what 00 is. They seem more confused by P4 and EM.

[martin_wynne]

No-one suggested H0 doesn't work.

 

The issue is that H0 models are over scale width in the running gear to make room for the wheels. In order to have 3.5mm/ft scale-width models on 16.5mm gauge track it is necessary to change to Proto-87: http://proto87.org

[Free At Last]

...and they both run on the same 4ft 1.5in gauge track?

[kipford]

I was helping my son on his new layout at the weekend. Piece of Peco code 100 concrete flexi-track with some of the sleepers spaced correctly. Enough said!

 

[Oldddudders]

I was helping my son on his new layout at the weekend. Piece of Peco code 100 concrete flexi-track with some of the sleepers spaced correctly. Enough said!

Brave man. You risk being told the concrete isn’t the right shade and the Pandrols aren’t curly enough.

[Pete the Elaner]

Spacing out the sleepers makes a massive improvement, but code 100 is still flat bottom rail.

Bullhead was the common type used everywhere for many years & still is in some places so for anyone modelling older track, this will give a better appearance than spaced out wooden sleeper webbing.

[Richard E]

Everyone is wrong of course, the correct gauge should be 28.08mm, shame it wasn't perpetuated in real life ....

[Zunnan]

...and they both run on the same 4ft 1.5in gauge track?

 

Not quite, one runs 1:87 scale models on a 1:87 representation of 1435mm track and the other uses oversized 1:76 bodies on a 1:87 representation of 1435mm track.

 

Actually, shouldn't that be 4' 1-3/8" gauge track?

[bertiedog]

Pity the Irish modeller in 4mm on 16.5, even further out of gauge........life is full of compromises, Electric locos disguised as steam,  Diesels without a trace of internal combustion, curves that would look better on fairground rides, and lines that loop back in a few feet to where they came from for no earthly reason....come on, it's only a model, a pastime should not become an overarching passion......

Stephen

[Clive Mortimore]

Spacing out the sleepers makes a massive improvement, but code 100 is still flat bottom rail.

Bullhead was the common type used everywhere for many years & still is in some places so for anyone modelling older track, this will give a better appearance than spaced out wooden sleeper webbing.

Hi Pete

 

I am sure Kipford and his son want flatbottom rail on concrete sleepers as it suits the layout they are building.

 

There are two popular layouts on this forum that represent the ECML in the late 1950s, both are models of prototype locations and have bullhead track, both are historically incorrect. They should have flatbottom rail on the main lines. Flatbottom rail has been in use in large amounts since the early 1950s, it is just us modellers tend to want to think it is too modern and should never be seen under a steam locomotives wheels. In the 1950s while the LMR was renewing the WCML with flatbottom rail on wooden sleepers it relaid some its branch lines with bullhead on concrete sleepers (then closed the branch lines).

 

Someone mentioned the other day that the lines north of Inverness have been relaid with new bullhead track recently. Railways are always full of surprises.

 

Before building a layout check the rail type used in the time period you model should you feel the need to get it right.

[steve45]

The last picture illustrates only too clearly why OO is best viewed from the side.

Most plank layouts are probably viewed from the side, and if they are at a certain height you cannot see the guage difference between OO and EM,P4 as you are looking side on.

 

That's what I'm doing for my next layout

[kipford]

I put the photo in to show the effect of re-spacing the sleepers even when using code 100 rail. For my sons layout he is intending to use exactoscale fastrack bases with code 75 rail and hand built points (that will be a learning curve for him). However if we they appear in time and we can justify their use we are temped to use the Peco Bullhead Points!

[New Haven Neil]

Probably not intentionally, but Peco have a slight reputation in the trade as a producer who proceeds in things at a more glacial rate than others, both in production and in supply to retail shops. They make a vast range, which no shop could afford to stock, and rely on special orders for a lot of items, which sounds easy, but is awkward for shops to tag on special orders, when they may be short of credit or cash, as the customer has not paid as yet. this tends to discourage shops doing the order.

 

Perhaps part of the answer is the internet, order from Peo's site and nominate a dealer to pick up the goods from, the shop receiving a cut for the service.

 

Perhaps a master site with all subscribed makers on it to make the service worthwhile, it helps both the maker, and the shops, and most of all the customer. Delivery point systems work in other trades, look at Argos and Sainbury's developing it, perhaps the model trade should move in this direction to help shops and speed up deliveries of large stock inventories.

 

Stephen.

 

  Actually, as a current dealer, we find PECO great to deal with, and they deliver every week exactly what we order. Credit where it's due rather than a stab in the dark.

[paulbb]

Perhaps we should all (brits,euros,americans) have adopted American OO scale that has  a track gauge of 19mm- very close to the P4 18.883- a nats whisker.

In an ideal world of course S gauge would be king......

[Ron Solly]

I personally could not care that much about getting things "correct"

 

Part of my layout used Code 75 flatbottom  using C&L templates as a guide.  http://www.nmra.org.au/Layout_Tours/Solly/images/satjuly5_003.jpg

 

Later track work used Peco Code 100 Setrack for curves &Peco 75 flex & turnouts and some bullhead rail supplied by mistake. Once painted, ballasted & weathered, unless one gets down close, the variances are hardly noticed. The crew that operate on my layout are more concerned in that all works well than sleeper spacing, etc

 

As I see it, Peco is giving more choices.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Ron Solly