Castle Aching

[BG John]

I thought both were likely France.  The wider shot above seems to support that view with regard to that location.  It matters not, I think, for our purposes.  Smashing photographs.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that if there's doubt about the location of many pictures it may well be France, as the French seemed to be pretty active with colour photography.

 

You're more knowledgeable than me on this, but I think the colour of women's clothing, wherever it was taken, is a useful guide for painting British figures. Apart from the glaringly obvious ones.

[Edwardian]

 

I think the colour of women's clothing, wherever it was taken, is a useful guide for painting British figures. Apart from the glaringly obvious ones.

 

 

Yes, I agree 100%.

 

Below are shots in New York in 1905 and 1914, and some French and English scenes; Brighton in 1906, the Laing sisters in 1912, The Gullicks in 1909, Cornwall 1913, the Lumière family.

 

My personal favourite is J. A. Nettleton with milk can. Early morning, April 1911.

[BG John]

 

That photo could almost have been taken quite recently, although the verges may be a lot more scruffy now. The road surface is very smooth, even though it's not tarmac. You can almost imagine someone driving past in a modern car!

[phil_sutters]

Yes, I agree 100%.

 

Below are shots in New York in 1905 and 1914, and some French and English scenes; Brighton in 1906, the Laing sisters in 1912, The Gullicks in 1909, Cornwall 1913, the Lumière family.

 

My personal favourite is J. A. Nettleton with milk can. Early morning, April 1911.

A fair number of old photos were hand coloured from mono originals, but they may well have held their colour better. I am afraid I don't have coloured photos to offer but there are some interesting ones - ones for the plastic rod and human hair modellers. Muriel in the top photo is my mother. The third photo is of her uncle Percy and his wife and baby in the side car. He and Marjory were motorcycle enthusiasts with Harley Davidsons and a Bristol-made Douglas figuring in their 1920s machines.

 

Edited October 15, 2016 by phil_sutters

[Fenman]

... I think the colour of women's clothing, wherever it was taken, is a useful guide for painting British figures. Apart from the glaringly obvious ones.

 

It's worth being a bit cautious, partly because many people dressed up in their finery if they knew a photo was to be taken (so what we see may not always be representative of daily wear); and partly because some photographers deliberately chose subjects where the colour of the clothes (or hair) would stand out to best effect. Some of the photos above are obviously "fancy dress", though it's difficult to tell at the margins whether some of the costumes are "special" or "everyday".

 

There's a lovely explanation in a BFI DVD featuring some glorious 1920s footage shot around the UK by pioneer Claude Friese-Greene, where his particular experimental colour process worked brilliantly with reds and greens but was pretty hopeless with blues. He deliberately chose to feature red-headed people because their hair would pop out of the frame. He liked red and green clothes for the same reasons.

 

Paul

Edited October 15, 2016 by Fenman

[BG John]

These 1913 photos are an example of red standing out, but look at some of the details in the background, like the weathered boat, that posh garden that could have been made today, the rustic garden gate, and other details that wouldn't be so clear in black and white.

http://mashable.com/2015/04/23/autochrome-photos-ogorman/

[ChrisN]

Brilliant pictures, one and all, I can see me spending quite a while looking at these.

 

What is so noticeable is that they are no different to us.  Christiana could be a model on the front of my wife's Seasalt catalogue.  People do not change, just their clothes.

Edited October 15, 2016 by ChrisN

[phil_sutters]

Given the lengths that period TV series go to get costumes right you could do worse than search for costumes from programmes, dating from your layout's period. Doubtless there will be bits of artistic licence and carelessness, but on the whole they seem to do reasonably accurate jobs - in recent years. Earlier film and TV costumes can be decidedly dicey.

[BG John]

(When I first encountered Edwardian of this parish, I did think, "I wish I had thought of that for a nom de plume". That's why I can't stand the man. No other reasons. )

Maybe I should have called myself Victorian, rather than hinting at my main period of interest in my name. It could avoid confusion when people misread my name. I've been referred to as BIG John before now, which may be true in a vertical sense, but not particularly in a horizontal one! I've met one RMweb member fairly recently who didn't realise I was me until I PMed him later!

 

Having not met Edwardian in the flesh, I imagine him to always dress in the style of the period, which is probably just as untrue as it is of me!

[BG John]

I assumed that BG referred to 7' 1/4" track.

Yup

[Edwardian]

(When I first encountered Edwardian of this parish, I did think, "I wish I had thought of that for a nom de plume".

 

Nom de guerre given your form of late, I would have thought!

 

[smiley face]

[Edwardian]

 

Having not met Edwardian in the flesh, I imagine him to always dress in the style of the period,

 

As, of course, I do!

[Stubby47]

To engage in a fight is brainless - to have the bigger stick so a fight doesn't start, that's clever.

[Clearwater]

Picture 2 in #1894 (such a pity you hadn't padded the posts out by another seven or so...) puts me in mind of Freddie Eynsford-Hill in My Fair Lady

 

David

[Edwardian]

Picture 2 in #1894 (such a pity you hadn't padded the posts out by another seven or so...) puts me in mind of Freddie Eynsford-Hill in My Fair Lady

 

David

 

Though, of course, we have no way of knowing how often he had walked down that street before.

[mullie]

My Fair Lady- if playing in the orchestra pit - take a good book there are long breaks in the second act- that street seems to be quite long.

 

Ah but the Nat King Cole version of 'On the Street Where you live' is something else.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaUzGqKQwbo

[TheQ]

While I would expect major cities to be macadam / tar, I've just been wading through pictures of the village (population 542 in 1901) / station I'm modelling from 1905 to 1915 and the roads appear to be macadam / chalk / gravel, definately no tar even on what is today an "A" road. The chalk is inches below the surface in the area and driving on the verges even today will bring up the chalk.

[phil_sutters]

While I would expect major cities to be macadam / tar, I've just been wading through pictures of the village (population 542 in 1901) / station I'm modelling from 1905 to 1915 and the roads appear to be macadam / chalk / gravel, definately no tar even on what is today an "A" road. The chalk is inches below the surface in the area and driving on the verges even today will bring up the chalk.

Chalk is a weird subsurface. These potholes came after ice and snow in the winter of 2010/11. The road is fairly steep in places, 1in10 perhaps, so the damaged surface started to slide down the slippery chalk.

Edited October 16, 2016 by phil_sutters

[Edwardian]

My Fair Lady- if playing in the orchestra pit - take a good book there are long breaks in the second act- that street seems to be quite long.

 

Ah but the Nat King Cole version of 'On the Street Where you live' is something else.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaUzGqKQwbo

 

Of course, I was much younger then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I57BVLgtUvk

[Nearholmer]

The mention of My Fair Lady made me wonder what people were actually listening to, or singing, in Norfolk in 1905. ...... which might lead to some ambient sound for CA one day, I suppose.

 

So, here goes with a bit of inspired guesswork:

 

- low-church hymns, of the rousing kind. Things like "Dare to be a Daniel", and whatever the Salvation Army was playing on street corners.

 

- the last dribs and drabs of folk songs, passed down by oral tradition. 1905 was the peak of the collecting season, when Musical intellectuals fanned-out across the country, to capture what was left. Ralph Vaughan Williams got Norfolk, and turned some of what he recorded into 'fancied-up' rhapsodies.

 

- songs from popular shows, turned into sheet-music and sung by "concert parties" and the like. Does anyone know what they would have been turning-out in 1905? ( I checked, and 'Nellie Dean' didn't hit GB until 1907; 'Sweet Adeline' was published slightly earlier, but might not have got here until WW1)

 

- whatever was available on phonograph discs (cylinders still?). I think this included some very early imports of jazz, or at least jazz-inspired music, from America, but I'm guessing this only got as far as the parlours of the lower middle classes. There were probably also marches, light opera etc on disc/cylinder, and maybe parlour tenors and sopranos (Dame Nellie Melba?).

 

What do others think/suggest?

 

(Here is my nominated No.1 Caruso and Melba, together https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d7AuZkNryks)

 

No, cancel that, this really is 1905, not 1907, Adelina Patti singing 'The Last Rose of Summer', which is a catchier tune. She does sound a bit like a laying hen in places, though! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3VSWYjjUuYI

 

Kevin

Edited October 15, 2016 by Nearholmer

[ChrisN]

From the discussion on my thread, somewhere I have not indexed that bit, tar did not begin to appear on roads outside towns until probably after WW1.  1925 sticks in my head but I have no idea why.

 

Edit:Just checked, some parts of Wales were not tarmac'd until 1930, or later.

Edited October 15, 2016 by ChrisN

[Edwardian]

The mention of My Fair Lady made me wonder what people were actually listening to, or singing, in Norfolk in 1905. ...... which might lead to some ambient sound for CA one day, I suppose.

 

So, here goes with a bit of inspired guesswork:

 

- low-church hymns, of the rousing kind. Things like "Dare to be a Daniel", and whatever the Salvation Army was playing on street corners.

 

- the last dribs and drabs of folk songs, passed down by oral tradition. 1905 was the peak of the collecting season, when Musical intellectuals fanned-out across the country, to capture what was left. Ralph Vaughan Williams got Norfolk, and turned some of what he recorded into 'fancied-up' rhapsodies.

 

- songs from popular shows, turned into sheet-music and sung by "concert parties" and the like. Does anyone know what they would have been turning-out in 1905?

 

- whatever was available on phonograph discs (cylinders still?). I think this included some very early imports of jazz, or at least jazz-inspired music, from America, but I'm guessing this only got as far as the parlours of the lower middle classes. There were probably also marches, light opera etc on disc/cylinder, and maybe parlour tenors and sopranos (Dame Nellie Melba?).

 

What do others think/suggest?

 

Kevin

 

I have listened quite a bit to the Norfolk Rhapsodies whilst working on CA - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjnPEpdt1pg - and the symphonies, and some George Butterworth for good measure. 

 

But, what of the folk of Castle Aching?

 

I suspect that there would be folk tunes and long-ways dancing surviving in this deeply rural district.

 

I'd like to think that, rather like Washbourne, the district is a hotbed for Am-Dram, and expect that the Achingham Strollers will put on any number of G&S productions (EDIT: unless restrained).  I am trying to persuade the resident impresario, Mr Burwin-Fosselton, to mount a production of J. B. Jimson's  Orange Pekoe, but, thus far, without success.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

I like the idea of a bit of G&S.

 

I like less the fact that the Scotsman from the film was a multi-media star; see below!

 

He probably had a twitter feed too.

 

Anyway, coming in at No.2, we have this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BHWyj4nrA4Q , later made famous by Laurel & Hardy (the former eating a boiled egg with the shell on), and Enya.

 

K

Edited October 15, 2016 by Nearholmer

[phil_sutters]

The mention of My Fair Lady made me wonder what people were actually listening to, or singing, in Norfolk in 1905. ...... which might lead to some ambient sound for CA one day, I suppose.

 

So, here goes with a bit of inspired guesswork:

 

- low-church hymns, of the rousing kind. Things like "Dare to be a Daniel", and whatever the Salvation Army was playing on street corners.

 

- the last dribs and drabs of folk songs, passed down by oral tradition. 1905 was the peak of the collecting season, when Musical intellectuals fanned-out across the country, to capture what was left. Ralph Vaughan Williams got Norfolk, and turned some of what he recorded into 'fancied-up' rhapsodies.

 

- songs from popular shows, turned into sheet-music and sung by "concert parties" and the like. Does anyone know what they would have been turning-out in 1905? ( I checked, and 'Nellie Dean' didn't hit GB until 1907; 'Sweet Adeline' was published slightly earlier, but might not have got here until WW1)

 

- whatever was available on phonograph discs (cylinders still?). I think this included some very early imports of jazz, or at least jazz-inspired music, from America, but I'm guessing this only got as far as the parlours of the lower middle classes. There were probably also marches, light opera etc on disc/cylinder, and maybe parlour tenors and sopranos (Dame Nellie Melba?).

 

What do others think/suggest?

 

(Here is my nominated No.1 Caruso and Melba, together

)

 

No, cancel that, this really is 1905, not 1907, Adelina Patti singing 'The Last Rose of Summer', which is a catchier tune. She does sound a bit like a laying hen in places, though!

 

Kevin

She does sound a bit like a laying hen in places, though!

 

If you want clucking hens try this rendition of 'In the mood' - At least the palms are suitable period pieces.

 

Edited October 15, 2016 by phil_sutters

[mullie]

Composers such as Vaughan Williams preserved folk tunes that otherwise might have disappeared forever as did many composers across Europe. The Norfolk Rhapsodies and 'In the Fen Country' are stunning pieces in my view and reflective of their time and place as well as the folk references in other works. Composers/collectors faced considerable challenges having to write down and notate melodies that had never been written down and any recording processes would have been very cumbersome. Folk melodies often evolved like a game of Chinese whispers with no two versions being the same. I must have come across half a dozen different versions of Greensleeves for instance, all notated in books used by instrumental students.

 

Sorry for rambling away from model railways.